Chameleon sleeping during the day!

[coastalvibesmama]

My panther cham has been healthy and thriving as far as I could tell but past few days has been closing eyes during the day. Otherwise he seems fine. Help!

I can't catch him with his eyes close to take a pic, he opens then as soon as I come close but here was him last night and the overall enclosure.

 

[SteveH]

Sounds like you noticed this early, well done First I would double check all your numbers as far as night and day temps and humidity. I take it he's still eating ? What supplements are you using and the schedule ?

 

[elizaann2]

I agree with Steve. Let’s do a husbandry review to see if anything needs to be adjusted for your beautiful boy. You find it below, just copy it and fill out with as much info as you possibly can.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with, and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long do you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high-traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem -

 

[coastalvibesmama]

Sounds like you noticed this early, well done First I would double check all your numbers as far as night and day temps and humidity. I take it he's still eating ? What supplements are you using and the schedule ?

We had a 30 hour power outtage last weekend from Hurricane Helene but I took him outside for about 20 minutes of sunlight and this eye closing wasn't happening prior to that.

He's still eating like a monster, I can upload pics of supplements when i get home but 1st and 15th he gets multi vit with D and calcium without D supplement on every feed (except 1st and 15th)

Lights come on about 9 am and would go off at 9 pm but after seeing his eyes shut yesterday around 4 pm I set them to turn off at 8pm. I hand mist in am before lights on and hand mist before bed after lights out. I have ice cube cup dripper in the afternoon for him if he seems thirsty. I'll have to move my hygrometer/thermometer back in as it just died a couple days ago. His cage typically stays more humid than my females in another room. Will update those numbers shortly

 

[coastalvibesmama]

We had a 30 hour power outtage last weekend from Hurricane Helene but I took him outside for about 20 minutes of sunlight and this eye closing wasn't happening prior to that.

He's still eating like a monster, I can upload pics of supplements when i get home but 1st and 15th he gets multi vit with D and calcium without D supplement on every feed (except 1st and 15th)

Lights come on about 9 am and would go off at 9 pm but after seeing his eyes shut yesterday around 4 pm I set them to turn off at 8pm. I hand mist in am before lights on and hand mist before bed after lights out. I have ice cube cup dripper in the afternoon for him if he seems thirsty. I'll have to move my hygrometer/thermometer back in as it just died a couple days ago. His cage typically stays more humid than my females in another room. Will update those numbers shortly

About 50% during the day, 90% at night right after misting. I added plastic wrap on 2 sides a few months ago to keep the night time humidity higher. I have a female in another room and her humidity is typically lower than his, 3 sides of her cage are wrapped and she has been fine.

 

[coastalvibesmama]

I agree with Steve. Let’s do a husbandry review to see if anything needs to be adjusted for your beautiful boy. You find it below, just copy it and fill out with as much info as you possibly can.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with, and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long do you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high-traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem -

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?

Male ambilobe panther cham
I got him May 5th of this year, 6 months old at that time, so he's nearly a year old and I've had him about 5 months.

• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?

Nearly daily, he runs on to my arm when I open his cage, we sit outside together sometimes and he likes to hang out on our blinds and look outside. We have brought in a second small dog which seemed to stress him Initially but seems better, may still be adding stress to him.

• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?

Crickets and dubias, about 10 a day combined, last batch was smaller so he had more than 10 of those.

• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with, and what is the schedule?

Repticalcium without d3 every feed except 1st and 15th & reptivite with D3 1st and 15th

• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long do you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?

Hand misting before lights in am and before bed after lights out. I leave a pot of water on stove to dechlorinate overnight or until I need it then add to my spray bottle to hand mist with. I use the same water with my female and a 3 month old baby and no problems with them. I saturate all the plants in the cage and it gets to about 90%. Yes, I see him drinking sometimes, pretty frequently. When he seems thirsty I'll add a dripper with ice cubes in the afternoon.

• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?

He has never been tested for parasites, urates are white typically solid and I did see one shriveled brown section in there, not sure if it was very recent though.

• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

He's been healthy, happy, outgoing and eats well. We have added another small dog to our home and he doesn't seem thrilled with that though he's better than initially. He went through a period of leaf walking a few weeks ago (I posted in the forum about it, that was the concensus) and hadn't done it since.




Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?

Screen reptibreeze xl, I added plastic shrink wrap to 2 sides to help keep humidity up some time ago. Maybe a month or 2 ago.

• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?

The recommended t5 and a heat bulb

• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?

Will update these tomorrow when i can measure

• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?

I have a digital hygrometer/thermometer but it died recently, I moved my other panther chams in to it until I get another. About 50% - 60% during the day and 90 % at night after spraying(- will update am humidity In the am. It had been stable so i stopped watching so closely)

• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?

Yes live plants, a palm, a money tree and a golden pothos- will post pics in am.

• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high-traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?

It is in our sunroof, more humid room with palm trees and orchids. There is an air vent above it but in the center of the room, did not seem to blow on the cage. Didn't think of this until now but my kids have been sick so I just changed our air filters, they haven't been changed for 6 months which is unusual, typically 3- 4 months. It is kind of a high traffic area. I have 2 kids, 2 dogs and 2 other panther chams (in another room) but his cage is in the sunroom facing the windows with a wall separating him from our chaos for the most part. His cage faces the door to our backyard/patio. Top of cage is about 6 feet from floor.

• Location - Where are you geographically located?

We are in Columbia, South Carolina

Thank you so much for taking the time to read all this and help

 

[MissSkittles]

Hi. Looking at your husbandry, nothing is jumping out and it looks good to me. Maybe someone else will see something that my eyes have missed. I do have some questions and suggestions though.
What strength is your uvb? What brand is it? how old is the bulb?
What is the schedule for your lights being on? Are there any lights on at night?
Is there any heat coming thru when the sun is shining, causing him to get over heated?
Is he able to see your other chameleons or a reflection of himself (like a nearby mirror)?

The black Exo Terra vine that you have is notorious for shedding micro-particles, which will always somehow find their way into sensitive googly eyes. A much better choice is natural branches or Fluker’s foam type vines, to name just a couple. Although not related to his closing his eye, I would also advise to add many more little ‘roads’ for him to travel. It can be a challenge to attach branches and things, but there are solutions. One is Dragon Ledges, which are awesome and strong enough to hold plants too. https://dragonstrand.com/dragon-ledges/ Another that I’ve been using is garden trellis attached to the frame. While not as strong as Dragon Ledges, it does hold a good amount and some plants.
Lastly, I strongly suggest getting a fecal parasite check. Unfortunately this also requires a basic veterinary visit. Do be forewarned though that often vets will automatically assume a vitamin A deficiency and want to give an injection of it. Your supplement contains all the vitamin A he needs and is preformed, meaning it is fat based and can build up to toxic levels if not given carefully.

 

[Beman]

My panther cham has been healthy and thriving as far as I could tell but past few days has been closing eyes during the day. Otherwise he seems fine. Help!

I can't catch him with his eyes close to take a pic, he opens then as soon as I come close but here was him last night and the overall enclosure.

Could you post more pics for me of him? I can not tell if it is just the photos but I would like to see the back of the neck area right behind his head. And that front left hand. Looks a bit swollen. Are you supplementing with anything additional to the two supplements? What are you gutloading with?

 

[coastalvibesmama]

Could you post more pics for me of him? I can not tell if it is just the photos but I would like to see the back of the neck area right behind his head. And that front left hand. Looks a bit swollen. Are you supplementing with anything additional to the two supplements? What are you gutloading with?

 

[coastalvibesmama]

I'm not supplementing with anything additional to the 2. I am feeding crickets potatoes, sweet potatoes, carrots and I think I fed a piece of apple and piece of cucumber randomly once but usually carrots. I forgot to mention he had something bothering his eye a couple weeks ago, I made a thread about it at that time. Here are pics of him from today

 

[coastalvibesmama]

We had a 30 hour power outtage last weekend from Hurricane Helene but I took him outside for about 20 minutes of sunlight and this eye closing wasn't happening prior to that.

He's still eating like a monster, I can upload pics of supplements when i get home but 1st and 15th he gets multi vit with D and calcium without D supplement on every feed (except 1st and 15th)

Lights come on about 9 am and would go off at 9 pm but after seeing his eyes shut yesterday around 4 pm I set them to turn off at 8pm. I hand mist in am before lights on and hand mist before bed after lights out. I have ice cube cup dripper in the afternoon for him if he seems thirsty. I'll have to move my hygrometer/thermometer back in as it just died a couple days ago. His cage typically stays more humid than my females in another room. Will update those numbers shortly

Daytime humidity looks like it's hanging around 73%, 74.5 degrees F. I forgot to mention his eye was bothering him a couple weeks ago also, I posted a thread about it at that time.

 

[Beman]

I'm not supplementing with anything additional to the 2. I am feeding crickets potatoes, sweet potatoes, carrots and I think I fed a piece of apple and piece of cucumber randomly once but usually carrots. I forgot to mention he had something bothering his eye a couple weeks ago, I made a thread about it at that time. Here are pics of him from today

So I think it was just the angle in the other pics because I am not seeing it in these. For your gutload you want to expand it to better items. See the gutload image.

For your UVB. What bulb strength are you using and what is your distance from where it sits on the screen to the branches directly below it?

Per eyes... One risk about the jungle vines your using is these have a coating that flakes off when they rub their face on them. It is why most of us do not use them and go with flukers brand for fake or all real branches.

Your daytime humidity is sitting too high. Really want it maxing out at the 60% at the most.

 

[coastalvibesmama]

So I think it was just the angle in the other pics because I am not seeing it in these. For your gutload you want to expand it to better items. See the gutload image.

For your UVB. What bulb strength are you using and what is your distance from where it sits on the screen to the branches directly below it?

Per eyes... One risk about the jungle vines your using is these have a coating that flakes off when they rub their face on them. It is why most of us do not use them and go with flukers brand for fake or all real branches.

Your daytime humidity is sitting too high. Really want it maxing out at the 60% at the most.

Ok thanks! I have natural branches from outside that I am going to sanitize and use instead. I have the 5 or 6% jungle uvb, it is the highly recommended one I can't remember off hand but it's relatively new. About 11 and half inches from light to vine.

If it's at 70%, could that be why he's closing his eyes periodically? Should I remove the plastic wrap from the sides? Typically it's around 60% but I think our AC is running less often with the outside temp being lower thus more humidity in the air?

Thank you for the gut load info!

 

[Beman]

Ok thanks! I have natural branches from outside that I am going to sanitize and use instead. I have the 5 or 6% jungle uvb, it is the highly recommended one I can't remember off hand but it's relatively new. About 11 and half inches from light to vine.

If it's at 70%, could that be why he's closing his eyes periodically? Should I remove the plastic wrap from the sides? Typically it's around 60% but I think our AC is running less often with the outside temp being lower thus more humidity in the air?

Thank you for the gut load info!

Ok so here are where the issues are. IF you are using the arcadia 6% forest bulb. That bulb in a single bulb fixture set right on top of the screen top you need to then measure down 8-9 inches and that is where your branch needs to be. Farther away and the cham is not getting the correct UVI levels. This can cause issues of closing eyes during the day and depending on positioning if the branch is not right below the fixture you can see MBD issues start. These bulbs put out UVA light as well which stimulates breeding, appetite, and activity level. Yours is at a distance that you would use only if you had the 12% arcadia bulb. Because that one is a stronger output so you have to account for that with the branch distance being farther. So double check your bulb. It should have it written on the end of one of the sides on the tube.

Remove one side for more air flow and see what your levels are... Closing eyes can be seen when they are dealing with illness. So high humidity you risk issues of a respiratory infection developing.

You will find season to season you may have to make adjustments like this. Most of us do as central air vs heat is going to do different things to your ambient levels... Not only to your ambient temps but your ambient humidity.

 

[coastalvibesmama]

Ok so here are where the issues are. IF you are using the arcadia 6% forest bulb. That bulb in a single bulb fixture set right on top of the screen top you need to then measure down 8-9 inches and that is where your branch needs to be. Farther away and the cham is not getting the correct UVI levels. This can cause issues of closing eyes during the day and depending on positioning if the branch is not right below the fixture you can see MBD issues start. These bulbs put out UVA light as well which stimulates breeding, appetite, and activity level. Yours is at a distance that you would use only if you had the 12% arcadia bulb. Because that one is a stronger output so you have to account for that with the branch distance being farther. So double check your bulb. It should have it written on the end of one of the sides on the tube.

Remove one side for more air flow and see what your levels are... Closing eyes can be seen when they are dealing with illness. So high humidity you risk issues of a respiratory infection developing.

You will find season to season you may have to make adjustments like this. Most of us do as central air vs heat is going to do different things to your ambient levels... Not only to your ambient temps but your ambient humidity.

Ok thank you! I removed one side and dropped the house temp a bit as well. It is a 6% Arcadia bulb, I raised the top branches to between 8 and 9 inches, also slid the light back as it looks line it had migrated forward over time rather than being centered on cage. Thank you for your help! I hadn't right about the conditions changing as seasons change, this is the first real season change since I got him. Thanks!

 

[Beman]

Ok thank you! I removed one side and dropped the house temp a bit as well. It is a 6% Arcadia bulb, I raised the top branches to between 8 and 9 inches, also slid the light back as it looks line it had migrated forward over time rather than being centered on cage. Thank you for your help! I hadn't right about the conditions changing as seasons change, this is the first real season change since I got him. Thanks!

Your welcome. If he does not perk up and stop closing eyes during the day after making these changes then that is a cause for concern and my worry would be illness. So standard route would be to first get a fecal test run to ensure there is not a parasite load. No parasite load then a blood draw to rule out infection.

 

[coastalvibesmama]

Your welcome. If he does not perk up and stop closing eyes during the day after making these changes then that is a cause for concern and my worry would be illness. So standard route would be to first get a fecal test run to ensure there is not a parasite load. No parasite load then a blood draw to rule out infection.

Ok thank you so much!

 

[coastalvibesmama]

Ok thank you so much!

Out of curiosity how soon should he perk up? He seemed better today but how long should I give him to improve?

 

[Beman]

Out of curiosity how soon should he perk up? He seemed better today but how long should I give him to improve?

I would expect to see no sleeping during the day within 3-4 days if he is actively basking.

 

[Everyday Dad]

Just popping in to say im having the same issue, thank you for your post Coastalvibes! I hope to see that both of our little fellas improve shortly!!