Chameleon with no eyes...

[Decadancin]

First off, I don't know what you must be going through politically or militarily, but you and your fellow countrymen are in my thoughts. As for your choice to keep this animal alive, I wish the best of luck! It will not be easy, as I'm sure you know, but as you figure out what actions trigger eating and drinking responses, I hope it will get easier. If you are successful with all your efforts my advice would be to keep this little one in a smaller than normal enclosure and be very careful with basking site temps. Not sure if he will be able to self-regulate temps as well as sighted chameleons. Also, I would not make any changes to the vine placement once it is set up. This should make it somewhat easier (in theory) for him to get around.

 

[chamillion]

Stressful but useful..

 

[alphakenc]

Stressful but useful..

Whatever it takes,as long u are happy to do as u wish,best luck to ur baby cham

 

[Millz&Jukka]

Hi everyone again. I couldn't look at the topic because of some problems in my country, Turkey Anyway, baby is still alive. Force feeding is difficult but still useful. For this week in streets, I saw how people can hurt other people, how can they kill a person by beating them. I saw how easy to take a life from someone. So now you want me to kill a little baby chameleon. I can kill it dozens of times. I can give it to predator birds from balcony. But I didn't. It is all about what do you expect from this hobby. For me, I have never expected to kill a little chameleon for its disability. I really understand how you look at this situation. You want me to think with my brain not my heart but believe me this is not a decision by made from heart.

I look up to you as a young cham owner for choosing what you think is right even if it involves more hard work than others can be bothered to put in

 

[Scout]

Best of luck with this journey.

It takes a special someone to walk tall during a time like this.

Stay strong brother.

 

[jajeanpierre]

I look up to you as a young cham owner for choosing what you think is right even if it involves more hard work than others can be bothered to put in

I take offense to your comment. Your choice of words such as "even if it involves more hard work than others can be bothered to put in," suggests that breeders such as myself are lazy and can't be "bothered" to put in the effort to keep a baby alive, that we don't care about our animals. Nothing can be further from the truth.

I look at a baby with no eyes as doomed. Even if my skill can keep it alive--and I'm pretty good with critically ill chameleons--it would have no hope of leaving my premises. It has no business becoming a part of anyone's breeding program so would be filling a cage that I need for my breeding animals. It would be wasting a tremendous amount of my time and financial resources. And that doesn't even address the very likely outcome of a slow and lingering death.

Allowing a chameleon in your care to die a likely long and lingering death is not something I think a young chameleon owner such as yourself should view as admirable. The decision to not euthanize this animal is about the owner's sentiment and not about the best interests of the chameleon. The breeder's decision is about the very real trauma and heart ache any caring person feels when they dispatch an animal, especially a young animal. It is about the breeder not being able to do it. I understand that. It's awful to cull or slaughter animals you have raised with love. I have chickens and there is no place for more than two roosters in a flock but half the chicks hatch out male. I raise them up, give them a great life and then one day when I can't put it off any longer, I slaughter them. And I cry. And I am sick over it. I still do it. Other chicken keepers lock their roosters out of the coop and allow nature to take care of it, which involves a very very cruel death. They, too, can't find the backbone to do what is needed and just put their heads in the sand. I am disgusted by those supposedly loving poultry keepers who allow their poor young roosters to be ripped apart and often eaten while alive.

If this breeder can keep it alive for longer than two months, I expect this baby will become severely stunted from malnutrition and eventually starve to death or die from dehydration related problems. I expect that over time, this baby won't be quite so willing to gape to take in food. At some point, I expect that this breeder will try to force feed this baby and fracture or dislocate the jaw. That is what I expect. These outcomes have nothing to do with whether or not I am prepared to "bother" putting in the work to keep a viable baby alive.

If this breeder chooses to spend an inordinate amount of time keeping this baby alive, that is his/her choice. I'm sure he/she realizes that this baby will be in his/her care for its whole life which means that a cage will be occupied by something that has no place in a breeding program.

 

[charlotteclaraschameleon]

Everyone just leave him alone. You do what you would do, and he's doing what he will do and his choice is to save and care for this little baby. I personally think you're a hero, Chamillion. SO, unless anyone has positive, helpful information regarding the care of this baby from this point on, just keep quiet. He's already heard enough of the opposite.

In a time like this, I think it really is best to remain positive. All of your comments about it becoming malnourished after two months etc should be kept to yourselves! He's trying his heart out, (and feeding him nutrient loaded crickets so as long as he feeds him by hand for the rest of his life he should be well nourished) and the truth is that although luck isn't on this little chameleon's side, none of us can tell the future or have any idea what will happen or how he will turn out, and chamillion is putting in his very best efforts so lets all just cross our fingers and help and support him through this rough time! I've seen PLENTY of disabled animals (in worse ways) lead totally healthy happy lives!

Chamillion - you rock, your empathy and dedication makes me think there's hope for our race after all <3

 

[trickedoutbiker]

Best of luck with this journey.

It takes a special someone to walk tall during a time like this.

Stay strong brother.

Amen.



@ the OP:

I agree with some when they say that it would be in the best interests of the chameleon's life to put it down, however, I have to salute your heart and soul, an 11 out of 10. You wanting to give this chameleon a chance at life, although it may be a prolonged death, tells me that you will be a successful breeder if you choose to go that route. This is because that, even though something is terribly wrong and not fixable, you are still willing to put your heart and soul into it to try the best to make it work. It may, or it may not. This, in my eyes, means that if a NORMAL chameleon was to ever get sick or injured in your care ( or even NOT in your care), you would be on top of it like white on rice and do whatever it takes to get them back to good health as soon as possible.

As a breeder though, you will also have to come to accept that things in life do happen. You must accept this in order to be successful. It's the circle of life. Animals die all the time in the wild, whether it be their own fault, an illness, injuries, or being eaten by a predator. It's just a fact, that it does happen. If it was in my care, personally, I would probably set it loose and pray it doesn't suffer because I'm just not sure I could bring myself to crush something so small and delicate. I'm 27 years old, and call me a puss if you will, but I just don't know if I could do that. Not to a chameleon. It would honestly make me cry and I would probably get sick, not gonna lie. But like I said, the course of nature is inevitable. Everything dies. Nothing is forever. Animals get eaten every day in the wild. Although it may suffer for a few short seconds in a bird's mouth, it wouldn't have to live in fear and stress for the rest of its life not knowing where anything is at without vision. It would be in a better place.

This whole thread has got me sad. This will be the last comment I have on here. I wish the best to you and your little one Chamillion. Bless your heart. Although I do not agree with your decision, I can understand your compassion. Peace be with you on this journey, for it will be a long and hard one. Good luck my friend.

 

[Carlton]

It has no business becoming a part of anyone's breeding program so would be filling a cage that I need for my breeding animals. It would be wasting a tremendous amount of my time and financial resources.

If this breeder can keep it alive for longer than two months, I expect this baby will become severely stunted from malnutrition and eventually starve to death or die from dehydration related problems. I expect that over time, this baby won't be quite so willing to gape to take in food. At some point, I expect that this breeder will try to force feed this baby and fracture or dislocate the jaw.

When I think about this unfortunate baby, there are two new points in your post worth considering.

1. Whether the keeper of this baby is a purposeful breeder (producing animals for sale) versus a hobbyist who just happened to hatch a clutch from a "pet". If the former, such a defect should be bred out so no future babies suffer the same miserable fate. We don't know if this was due to an inheritable trait or a simple defect in one embryo. Its only humane to consider how to prevent it again. I have never been a breeder, so if I ended up with babies it was due to a gravid import. The consideration that this baby might take up cage space and take time away from other chams I keep wouldn't come up for me unless the reality was that I don't have time at home reliably enough to guarantee being able to take care of this little one every single day for the rest of its life. I could never expect a pet sitter to take this on if I have to leave. If I ended up with a defective baby the choice about its fate still has to be mine, and the choice comes down to my next point below:

2. What it will really mean for this baby to live in such a dependent way. We've already discussed what this baby physically can and cannot experience in its life and what it would take to keep it going. Its one thing to realize that this baby won't know what it's missing as "life" started off in that state. I happen to think that all creatures need the brain stimulation and sense of purpose that their senses create, and to be deprived of them (especially a species that has made the evolutionary "choice" to give up hearing, sense of taste or smell and focused its ability to experience life through its vision) would mean a dull and tedious span of time with little to nothing to do. I know we read about animals who survive after tragic losses...sight, hearing, limbs, etc, but we have no idea if this little cham will be able to do the same. Given their antisocial tendencies, it might be very hard for it to tolerate the multiple daily intrusions its care would mean. Especially if it matures into a territorial adult. The reality that this baby, if it survives that long, may eventually resist reflex-gape feeding or show signs that its getting increasingly stressed by that type of handling. We can't know if it will stay compliant and docile about it. We can't "explain" it to the poor little thing either.

I fully appreciate this dilemma and am glad I am not faced with it. Whatever you choose to do...I wish both of you well.

 

[charlotteclaraschameleon]

Chamillion one thing to consider when setting up her cage, in this very rare case a waterfall may be a good idea in the cage (you would have to clean it almost daily) but your little one will probably develop very keen other senses since she can't see, and could probably hear / feel the vibrations of the waterfall so she could access water on her own accord

 

[Carlton]

Chamillion one thing to consider when setting up her cage, in this very rare case a waterfall may be a good idea in the cage (you would have to clean it almost daily) but your little one will probably develop very keen other senses since she can't see, and could probably hear / feel the vibrations of the waterfall so she could access water on her own accord

Um possibly, but it could also end up being a constant drowning hazard while it's this tiny and blundering around. Same concerns if you used an in-cage terrarium fogger. The nebulizer disk does vibrate in order to produce the fog, but it can be hazardous for the cham to touch. IMHO, opening the enclosure, misting the foliage might be a very good warning that water is coming.

 

[jajeanpierre]

It's the circle of life. Animals die all the time in the wild, whether it be their own fault, an illness, injuries, or being eaten by a predator. It's just a fact, that it does happen. If it was in my care, personally, I would probably set it loose and pray it doesn't suffer because I'm just not sure I could bring myself to crush something so small and delicate. I'm 27 years old, and call me a puss if you will, but I just don't know if I could do that. Not to a chameleon. It would honestly make me cry and I would probably get sick, not gonna lie. But like I said, the course of nature is inevitable. Everything dies. Nothing is forever. Animals get eaten every day in the wild. Although it may suffer for a few short seconds in a bird's mouth, it wouldn't have to live in fear and stress for the rest of its life not knowing where anything is at without vision. It would be in a better place.

I'm sorry, but I just can't let this go. What you are suggesting is downright cruel. Because YOU can't cope with the magnitude of taking a life, you would rather are subject a baby you supposedly love and care for to a violent and probably painful death all because you can't cope with death. How selfish! When an animal in your care exits this world, it is incumbent upon you to make it as quick, pain and stress free as possible. Euthanizing an animal isn't about your feelings, it is a duty to your animal.

Yes, it is upsetting. Yes you cry. But you do what needs to be done and if you can't do it yourself you do not pass it off to a rather cruel Mother Nature. You find someone who does have the backbone to do it for you be that a vet, a neighbor who hunts or even a farmer. Mother Nature is not kind. She has prey ripped apart and eaten alive, sometimes piece by piece. If you are lucky like a deer, you get capture myopathy and basically have a crash in blood pressure and pass out as you are being grabbed, before you are being disemboweled alive by a mountain lion or pack of wolves.

Here's a picture of what happens in the wild. Don't you think this little anole would have preferred to have someone stomp it and kill it before it even registered anything was happening to it than to be chomped up, crushed, broken and swallowed alive to live how long in this chameleon's stomach? Supposed animal lovers like you make me sick. You close your eyes and pretend you didn't make a decision at all, that is isn't happening because you close your eyes to what you do and then make it as cruel as possible.

Note: The above in no way is criticizing the original poster for his/her decision to try to keep this baby alive. That's his/her decision to make. The above is in direct response to the Trickedoutbiker's "solution" of just allowing the animal kingdom to do the dirty work pretending that "letting it go" is not a decision and somehow kinder than a quick and painless death. Death by predation is not usually quick and is most certainly painful and very stressful.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Animals get eaten every day in the wild. Although it may suffer for a few short seconds in a bird's mouth, it wouldn't have to live in fear and stress for the rest of its life not knowing where anything is at without vision. It would be in a better place.

I forgot to respond to this. My chickens kill and eat snakes. It is the cruelest thing imaginable. Every once in awhile I find them fighting over one and I have to "rescue" it from them so I can dispatch it quickly because they will have pecked its eyes out, broken and dislocated its jaws, broken its back in ten or more places. Have you not seen birds tear animals apart, living animals, piece by piece? Gee, nice thing to wish on a baby chameleon.

 

[charlotteclaraschameleon]

. IMHO, opening the enclosure, misting the foliage might be a very good warning that water is coming.

okay OBVIOUSLY. There are also lots of times when a chameleon can be thirsty and you aren't there to mist him. I'm also not talking about when it's a BABY and there are waterfalls out there that are un-drownable / have incredibly shallow chambers. A good fogger might also work wonders. My goodness.

Here's a picture of what happens in the wild.
View attachment 162531

Yeah, with that fake rock in the background, I don't think that picture was taken "in the wild". And the fact is that the chameleon isn't either. It's in a home, perfectly safe, with someone watching and caring for it 24/7...

 

[Theveiled]

I forgot to respond to this. My chickens kill and eat snakes. It is the cruelest thing imaginable. Every once in awhile I find them fighting over one and I have to "rescue" it from them so I can dispatch it quickly because they will have pecked its eyes out, broken and dislocated its jaws, broken its back in ten or more places. Have you not seen birds tear animals apart, living animals, piece by piece? Gee, nice thing to wish on a baby chameleon.

I also have chickens and when my sister finds a frog or lizard she always says "im going to feed it to the chickens" and I have to fight her for it because they are brutal killing it and I don't want it to die that way

 

[jajeanpierre]

Yeah, with that fake rock in the background, I don't think that picture was taken "in the wild". And the fact is that the chameleon isn't either. It's in a home, perfectly safe, with someone watching and caring for it 24/7...

I didn't say that picture happened in the wild--that is a picture of my baby chameleon that found a hatchling anole in her cage that had hatched from an anole nest laid in the potted plant that came from a green house--I said that is what happens in the wild. I wanted to show @trickedoutbiker the face of that poor baby anole that my chameleon found and chewed up and ate. I wanted them to see exactly what would happen to a baby because they didn't have the courage to do the responsible thing.

Again, the above is not connected in any way to the OP's choice to work with this baby.

 

[jajeanpierre]

I also have chickens and when my sister finds a frog or lizard she always says "im going to feed it to the chickens" and I have to fight her for it because they are brutal killing it and I don't want it to die that way

I love my chickens but get really upset if they find a little snake or frog. They can eat all the scorpions they want but leave the frogs and snakes alone! Snakes just don't seem to die no matter how beat up and broken they are.

 

[trickedoutbiker]

Supposed animal lovers like you make me sick

Then go throw up!! OMG!!! If you are that pissed at something I said, then I'm sorry you feel that way Janet. But just because you can stomp on a chameleon doesn't mean everyone can. The OP can't bring himself to do it either. Jus sayin... Euthanizing an animal is a bit different than stomping its brains out like you are suggesting.. Sure it might be super quick and super painless.... but not everyone can do it. If they could, then this thread wouldn't exist. I have a HUGE heart for animals. Just because I may or may not do something that you don't agree with, doesn't give you the right to call me a "supposed animal lover". You have no idea how many animals I've cared for in my life. I had a cat show up on my mom's doorstep when I was about 13 or 14. It had been hit by a car, and its front-right leg was so badly torn, there was no way it would ever heal. It's stomach was quite crushed and you could see it had broken ribs. The cat was barely alive.... how it knew to come to a front step, I don't know. I'm thinkin it was dropped off by someone, so the cat knew what a house was and that maybe we could help. My parents wanted to kill the cat. Take it out back the country way and shoot it with a .22 rifle. We had done that before with other cats. But me, being the "supposed animal lover" that I am, convinced my mom and dad to drop over $1000 on that cat and take it to the vet. They did surgery on it, fixing the ribs, and they amputated the front-right leg. I could of went with my parents' decision to kill the cat, but with me NOT CARING SOOOOOO MUCH about animals.... I cried my little heart out until they agreed to take it to the vet. Which saved its life by the way. That cat lived many many years after that and we called him Tripod.

I also had a neighbor who abused their dogs who lived down the road from me. There was a momma dog and she had a doghouse with no roof, on a very short chain. Barely ever got fed... you could see the ribs. This dog ended up getting knocked up by a wandering dog from another neighbor, and it ended up having puppies. He barely fed the puppies either, and they ALL lived in a TINY LITTLE doghouse with no roof. Looked like that dog house had been around since 3000 B.C. ....... My neighbor Joe Slocum lived right across the street from them and told me what was going on and how bad the pups were kept. So, my brother and I decided to take action. We snuck down the road one night at like 3 in the morning, while it was raining, and we stole all 5 puppies, and the mom. They were not fed well and not in the greatest condition..... but we managed to get all the dogs to follow us home. We kept them out back in a shed that we stored firewood in, and we fed them and cleaned them and everything was great.... One day, the mom and a few pups got loose after we were letting them play in the yard a bit (as we did this one day a week, only in the back yard, to avoid detection).... They ended up in the front yard at one point because none were fenced in or chained up, and so conveniently, the neighbor who originally had the dogs saw that momma dog and some pups in our yard as he was coming home one day. He drove down to our house and threw 3 of the puppies in his truck, tied a chain to that momma Lab, and held the chain out the window as he drove off and dragged her all the way down the road about a quarter of a mile back to his house. He literally DRAGGED THE DOG home. It had severe road rash. He ended up shooting the dog. He then came back the next day and wanted to know where the other pups were. Said he was going to call the cops on us for stealing if we didn't give them back. I lied to him and said they ran off and that I didn't know. He ended up leaving.

Me and my brother kept those last two black labs in that wood shed for a year or more. We left the sliding door on the wood shed open at all times so they could roam in and out of the shed on their 30 foot leashes. We took them off the leash and walked them a few times a week out back in the field. We kept them a super secret. We loved those dogs. We only kept them hidden for so long because we feared for their safety. Their names were Buddy and Angel. After about a year, we stopped keeping them cooped up in the shed. We let them roam free, all the time. The neighbor apparently never recognized them all grown up, or didn't care. Because those dogs, just like the Tripod cat, lived many many years after we rescued them. They grew to be very nice, very healthy dogs, all because me and my brother Cody risked getting arrested to save them.

I've rescued frogs from the wild. I've taken in a gerbil from a friend once. I saved a hummingbird once who couldn't fly right by giving it a cage and a small hummingbird feeder to use while it healed so it wouldn't die in the wild...... Shall I give those stories as well?

So don't you DARE think you know anything about me or the kind of person I am and the heart I have for humans and animals alike, all because you don't agree with something I said. You really have no idea Janet.

Here's a picture of what happens in the wild. Don't you think this little anole would have preferred to have someone stomp it and kill it before it even registered anything was happening to it than to be chomped up, crushed, broken and swallowed alive to live how long in this chameleon's stomach? Supposed animal lovers like you make me sick. You close your eyes and pretend you didn't make a decision at all, that is isn't happening because you close your eyes to what you do and then make it as cruel as possible.

I'm sure the anole would have preferred to die quick and painlessly. Did you weep for it too? Not trying to be an ass here, but lay off me! For real. You can't save every animal in the world. The circle of life is just that, the circle of life. In the wild, a blind chameleon would be a gonner by day 2 if not by day 1. Do you weep for the insects that you feed your chameleon? You mentioned how the anole might live in the chameleon's stomach for a while... what about insects? They are living breathing things too. Do they suddenly not count because they are food for your pet and you have no connection with them? You also mentioned how your chickens can eat all the scorpions they want, but you want them to leave the frogs and the snakes alone....... So now you can CHOOSE what gets to die and what doesn't? How is a wild scorpion different than a frog or snake? What about people who have pet scorpions.... shall they take offense to that, like you take offense to what I said? You're the only one here taking offense to anything anyone is saying, first with the OP's decision to keep it and you grinded them for it and told them they will probably certainly fail or prolong a certain death (way to be supportive on their hard decision they made there ), and now, you're grinding me, for something I said!!! Like I said before, the circle of life happens, and it goes on, whether you want it to or not. You can't play God. So why do you try to protect all the snakes and the frogs? You DO realize that they probably get eaten anyways when you turn your back? It's inevitable, because like I said, the circle of life goes on, whether you want it to or not.

The above is in direct response to the Trickedoutbiker's "solution" of just allowing the animal kingdom to do the dirty work pretending that "letting it go" is not a decision and somehow kinder than a quick and painless death. Death by predation is not usually quick and is most certainly painful and very stressful.

I never once stated that letting it go was not a decision. It certainly is a decision. Maybe not the right one, I never said it was did I? But who's to judge? Just as most of us think that keeping the chameleon alive isn't the right decision, it didn't stop the OP from making that call now did it? And you grinded his ass for it! I also never once stated that it would be kinder to let it go into the wild than a quick and painless death, I only stated that I would pray it didn't suffer. Now you are putting words in my mouth and assuming things. When you ASS-U-ME things, you make an ASS out of U and ME. I certainly know that death by nature is probably a little painful and stressful. I accept that.

Have you not seen birds tear animals apart, living animals, piece by piece? Gee, nice thing to wish on a baby chameleon.

You ever watch the Nature Channel or National Geographic Janet? You see lions rip apart zebras, hyenas tearing apart hippos, so on and so forth. THAT'S PART OF LIFE. Do I wish that on a chameleon by a bird or a snake or something? Absolutely not! I never said I did. I said I WOULD PRAY IT DIDN'T SUFFER. If there was no suffering and no animals eating other animals, there wouldn't be a planet. The quicker you realize that, the better. Do I sound cruel? Maybe, and I absolutely do apologize if I do. But to be honest.... stomping on a chameleon sounds a little cruel too. Just because it may be "humane" to you, doesn't mean it's feasible for someone else to do.

I remember hitting a rabbit with my car. I went back and found the poor little bunny gurgling and dying. I knew I had to dispatch this little rabbit. I backed my car up and positioned my front wheel right beside the bunny's head. I was on a steep hill. All I had to do was just put my foot on the clutch and allow the car to roll over the bunny's head. I couldn't. I sat there on that dark country road balling my eyes out, disgusted with myself for not being able to do the right thing. A man drove up to ask if I needed help and offered to do it for me. I left after he promised to dispatch that bunny quickly and humanely. To this day almost 40 years later I am guilt ridden that I was unable to do the right thing.

How long did you sit on that road while the rabbit suffered, just wondering? Was it minutes? An hour? IT was mangled and bloody already, but still alive, and you just let it sit there, helpless, suffering, because you couldn't do the "right thing" ...... So if you can let a MANGLED rabbit sit there, crushed and suffering because you were unable to do "the right thing" then what gives you the audacity to sit here and ream my ass for anything? How do you know if the man even killed the rabbit after you left or not? Maybe it suffered for hours, or even days on that road because maybe he couldn't do it either and was only trying to console you. Ever think about that? At least if I WAS to let a blind chameleon into the wild to let nature take its course, it wouldn't go into nature all bloody and suffering. Again, not trying to be mean here, I'm just trying to make a point. You can't protect them all and you can't play God. You just can't. You let that bug you now 40 years later..... it's the circle of life J. You made a decision. Just like anyone would. A decision, whether right or wrong, is still a decision nonetheless. People are all different and what may be okay to one person may not feel right to another, hence the OP's inability to kill the chameleon. Even if I had it as my own and let it go into the wild... I NEVER said I wouldn't feel bad about it. I would... I said I might cry and might get sick. Just like you felt about the rabbit. But you made that decision and moved on.......

So regardless of what the OP would do, or what I may or may not do, lets all just move on. I honestly don't know what I would do in a situation like that because I've never had a blind chameleon. I really honestly don't know. I MIGHT let it go, I MIGHT crush it.... or heck, I might even be the one trying to make it live a while. Who knows. So please..... get off my case about what I said okay? I was simply making another suggestion just like anyone else here. Lets all just give our best wishes to the OP and be done with it.

 

[OldChamKeeper]

<< eats popcorn >>

 

[Nicholasdeaan]

forgot to respond to this. My chickens kill and eat snakes. It is the cruelest thing imaginable.

So you killing when necessary is humane, but when nature does it's cruel? No. That's NATURE. Not cruel. This is where humans need to draw the line between playing God and letting nature take its purest form. If the chickens kill the snake, they kill it. It isn't cruel because cruelty isn't in their mine or their agenda. They want to eat it.

Poor baby anole? Tough. That's nature. Pure nature. I don't feel bad.

You seriously don't expect everyone to be able to stop on a chameleons head do you? That's revolsive. They're are other ways to go about it. No one wants that image stuck in their head.

I certainly don't expect everyone to be able to hunt. I hunt. Alot. Rabbits, deer, and I've trapped. I'll shoot a deer in its head and end it's life in .1 seconds without hesitation. And then happily eat it an hour later. Could you? After you gut it and skin it? What about if you wound it and have to finish it off? Ever hear one a wounded deer scream? It's sad. But it's part of nature and it happens while hunting. That's pure, raw nature. Hunting is. Where I hunt, there's alot of wolves, coyotes, bear, and mountain lions. So when I, or other people hunt, you're no longer top of the food chain. You drop a notch. Get attacked, killed, and eaten, oh well. That's nature. You're in their home hunting and are now a part of the ecosystem and nature itself.

Crushing a pets head that has pure intention of being enjoyment and loved by you, isn't nature. That's only trying to bring bad images and experiences for anyone. Want to euthanize one? Fine I get it. That's being responsible. But saying that you need to smash it's head on concrete or cut it's head off, without having any hesitation, is a little far fetched. There are more civil, less goreful ways to do it. Its sick you'd put one under your shew. Why do that to yourself?

And as for, he cares very much for his animals, Earth, and nature. And is a personal friend of mine. He takes care of his animals and would euthanize if necessary, but not in such a gruesome, horrible way. So to call him a "supposed animal lover", is out of line. I think you need to step off of your high horse and accept the fact that people will have different views. Its life. There's no need to attack everyone who doesn't accept everything you do and say. I think you need to go hunting and be educated on natural death vs. Trying to play God.