Chloë, her new sand, other concerns

SocialNumb

SocialNumb

Established Member
So Chloë (veiled) hit 5 months, as far as I know, now so I set up a laying bin with play sand with just enough moister to keep a tunnel. All she's done with that is to look fixedly at it for a while and then shoot at it. It doesn't appear she's getting any sand back and if she is I assume it's a negligible grain or three. She has been kinda roaming the cage a lot even walking on the bottom plastic from time to time, though not long at all. It appears she wants out so I got her a Hibiscus that I have to clean up to see if she'll come out or what. Is repotting really necessary for this application? I'm not keeping it in her cage and the plant is going to stay outside most of the time. She's also climbing the screen regardless of how much vines and things she has available which further makes me inclined to believe she wants out.

So, my questions here are:

1: Is shooting at the sand OK or should I keep it removed as I did for now? I watch her all day so maybe I could pick up on it when and if she's ready to use it? :confused:

2: Or am I right to think she want's out? She seems to be checking out the, for lack of a better word, the corners of where the cage parts meet. As if she's looking past the screen, if you know what I mean. :confused:

3: As far as reducing her temps to the lower 80s and dropping her food schedule down to every other day, how should I go about doing this? A little at a time or what? She's still a very hungry Cham. She'll eat all day if I let her though she's not eating fruits or plant matter anymore, for now. Not sure how to proceed in here.

Thoughts/ideas?


Update: She wouldn't stop pacing and frequently going to the bottom on the floor so I put the sand back in and she calmed down but then started shooting at it over and over again till she finally dug in and got some with her mouth and ate it. I took it out. I have no clue why she's doing this or why it seems like it's all she wants to do. She's looking for the sand right now. Ignoring crickets even but stopping every now and then to eat one.
 
Guys, I don't know what to do. She's not eating today. She goes down to the bottom every 5-15 minutes and walks around the floor then back up to bask a little. Again, on repeat. Her colors are sharp/striking, ect, showing a little yellow even. Dark stripes and dots through out from tail to head. I'm lost because when I place her laying bin inside all she does is attempt to eat it. So I'm stuck with either her eating it or becoming egg bound if that's what's actually going on with her. Could it be she doesn't know what to do herself?


Help!


I'll try and post a picture of her later this after noon.
 
The little girls are so sweet and loaded with personality but they sure can worry us. They are receptive before they have eggs. When receptive they are extremely hyper and all over the place. It's hard to say what to do about the lay bin. Eating a small amount of sand should be ok. You could try soil but she might eat that too. I would at least change out the first few inches of sand in the FR Hibiscus and cover it with screen and/or river rocks because it would only take a few seconds for her to eat the soil. Do you give her veggies and fruits to eat? I would hang some around in her enclosure for snacks. I would just start offering food every other day. If you offered food today then skip food tomorrow.

You could line the inside of her cage with plastic chicken fencing. That would give her something to hold on to besides the screen so she want lose any nails.

Post some pictures when you can.
 
Thanks jan. You settled my nerves some by giving me another reason why she might be going a little nuts.

She's freaking me out. She's all over the place. I didn't think it could be because she's looking to mate because I was worried about her wanting to lay but she's not digging so far. That's what you mean by receptive right? Just making sure. I'll post some pictures this late afternoon.

I do offer her veggies and fruits and she's eaten plenty of it till now. She doesn't want anything right now but sand to eat.

Here's hoping for the best. Still freaking me out a little. :eek:
 
Oh, one more thing. I noticed this morning that following her urate was a long slime like stuff, very clear, before her normal looking poo. Then later on she did it again, this time no poo. What's that about?
 
Oh boy do I understand your worries so well. Claudia did the exact same thing when she was receptive about a month or so ago. I was out of my mind with worry. She also loves eating her sand in the lay box. I made sure to use washed, sifted play sand so the particles are as small as possible and no chance of any little stones or pebbles getting into her stomach.

Hang in there. It sounds like you're doing everything right and everything that you can. The lay box is there, you're monitoring her behavior, and you're asking questions. Is your girl showing her big girl colors yet (mustard yellow and robin's egg blue)? That's where it started with Claudia. She got her big girl colors in the beginning of September, and then about a week later she started with her restlessness. After a week and a half of her not eating and roaming like crazy, I brought her to the vet and that's when we discovered she had eggs.

I don't know if your process will be exactly the same or not, but I wanted you to know that I'm also going through it, too, and this forum has been a fountain of information and more help than I ever could have imagined, so you're in the right place and you're doing the right things. Don't be afraid to ask questions. Everyone here is here for the well being of chameleons (and to show how cute their babies are ;)), and they will be quick to help out :)
 
Thanks for the kind words carbyville! :)


I haven't seen any mustard yellow and robin's egg blue. If I did then I'd at least have a clue. I've seen enough on this forum to know what that's about.

She's looking like this more or less, brighter more pronounced in the morning and afternoon. She's in a bad mood too. Puffing up at me when I offered a worm this morning. First time. She also has white around her lower mouth which is new. Almost as if she's about to peel but I'm not sure yet.


Not the best picture, old iPhone. Kinda blurry.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7339906/Chloë/image.jpg


Whatever is going on, she's restless.
 
Can you please post a recent photo of her.

Re: the sand... You're in a catch 22 situation...she needs the laying bin in the cage but it's concerning that she is eating sand.

It's said that they eat sand/soil looking for nutrients.
Please answer the questions in the how to ask for help thread at the top of the health forum so we can help you.

There is a type of sand that I have used for years that has never caused any problems to my females when they ate it. Its produced by Kings and comes in a white bag with blue and white and red sandbox toys on the front of it.

Regarding cutting down the food and temperatures...I don't like to do it until the chameleon is full grown to make sure her bones are fully developed. The idea of cutting the the temperature a couple of degrees is to slightly slow the metabolism so she won't be so hungry. The reason for cutting the food down is to decrease the size of clutches and the frequency. You don't want to do it when a chameleon is producing eggs. Timing of when you start this is rather important...if she's alreadyboroducing eggs then I wouldn't do it. I start a couple of days after the female lays eggs.
 
Oh wow. She looks very angry! She does look puffy in the picture. Not the easiest to tell since she looks to be in a defensive pose to look bigger. The white on the mouth is also interesting. I've seen black on the mouth from the cham rubbing their faces on the cage trying to get out, but I'm not sure if white would indicate the same. It does look like shed in the picture. How long has that been there?

I'm sure it's tough to get a picture right now, considering how crabby the little lady seems to be, but closer pictures of the mouth would be great.
 
She looks young and not that big in the photo to me. Is that shed on her face? More and better photos would be helpful.
 
kinyonga, the homedepot where I live carry Quikrete. Kings seems to be a Canadian brand from what I can tell. When I search for it on the .com website Quikrete comes up. That's what I have. Well washed.

Chameleon Info:
• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?

Veiled, female, 4 to 5 months according to Petsmart (I know, they suck) In my care since July 18.

• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?

Never

• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?

Crickets, supers, wax and phoenix worms for now, that's all I've been able to get. About 10-15 large crickets in the morning 9:30. (varies depending if she eats worms or not) Gut-loading with a long list of vegetable and fruits all on the "safe list" here in the forums and in the forum blogs. I mix/blend it up, preparing zip lock bags and freezing them. I also give her fruits, like banana and apple. She loves banana. As well as veggies, cilantro and basil seems to be her thing. My last batch of gutload, off the top of my head was green beans, strawberries, blueberries, carrots, raisins, sweet potato, basil, cilantro, almonds, kashi cereal (tiny amount), poppy seeds, apple, sunflower seeds and I'm sure I'm missing a few things.

• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?

Repti Calcium without D3 every feeding on most crickets. Repti-vite and Repti Calcium with D3 bi weekly.

• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?

I mist 3-4 times a day for up to 5 mins but slowly. Sometimes I see her drink now. Usually shoots for it. Sometimes even come to the front of the cage to get directly misted.

• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?

Poop looks fine as per the poop 101 thread. Has not been tested for parasites yet.

• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

I have no history other than she came from Petsmart as a complete surprise as a gift. Yeah, they didn't ask me.

Cage Info:
• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?

24x24x48 ReptiBreeze

• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?

ReptiSun T5 HO 5.0 24 WATT 24" and a SunBlaster grow light T5 HO 6500k Full Spectrum 24 WATT 24" Dual Dome with normal bulbs 25/50watt for heat if and when needed. 12/12 cycle 8:00AM to 8:pM

• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?

Ambient temp 75-76 pretty much consistently. Basking spot 82-85, 84ish most of the time, as measured by a Zoomed Digital Thermometer that came with my startup kit, also gifted to me. Room for her to get closer or further as she pleases.

• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?

46-59 depends, sometimes drops to 40.

• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?

3 Pathos, she's not eating them anymore, and a tall Corn Plant that's on the safe list on the forums. Not eating that either. Both re-poted and washed well with Dawn liquid soap.

• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
It's on a the floor for now, 24x24x48, in my bedroom in a corner but not up against it. There is an A/C vent in my room on the roof but I have that aimed to the opposites side of the room. I only turn on the ceiling fan If the A/C is not cooling well enough on super hot days. Very low traffic, if you could call myself traffic.


• Location - Where are you geographically located?

South Florida, Palm Beach County. WPB.

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

She's all over the place, the floor, the sides, the top, hanging upside down like she did when she was tiny, seemingly wanting out but doesn't come out. I can't leave the sand laying bin inside because she eats it. She passed that this morning by the way. Sand in her poop. Not a lot but there. She didn't eat at all yesterday, out of nowhere. From piggy to full stop. She's had one cricket this morning, that I've seen, so far.


The white on her face turned out to be shed. She's almost got it all off at the moment. Ate it. Only her mouth shed, strange?


Update: I put her Hibiscus up today with a vine going to it and she practically jump her way across it to her new plant. From there I took her outside for about an hour for some air and sun. She seems to really enjoy it. She did not want to go back in. It was a mission getting her back into her enclosure. She came really close to jumping off the plant to the floor but I managed with help from a stick that I got her to climb on. Now she's back to going up and down, in circles. Stopping a few minutes to bask and around, repeat. I'm not sure if she's eaten anymore. I see a couple crickets in there and she usually cleans house quick. They just be hiding as well.
 
She's still not eating and her urate is looking a little yellow and small in size. She's showing mustard yellow now as well. I'm going to try a super and see what happens.
 
She ate, I think, one cricket today and she had a little water. How much longer can this go on before it's really time to worry? I don't know how she still has the energy to keep going around in circles in her cage. She just wants out all day. Pawing at the door trying to figure out how to open it? I've been taking her outside for a bit but it's so hot. I can't take it too long. Plus the big birds flying above keep me on my toes with a stick in my hand.
 
Still not eating. :(


I put the laying bin back in to see what she would do this time and without hesitation she went right for it and started eating it like it was dinner. I took it out. I can't believe it's the only thing she's interested in eating. I just don't get it and I can't find any information why she's doing this.
 
I'm sorry to hear she still isn't eating. It is so frustrating and scary when they don't eat! Have you tried offering her any greens or fruit? I know that they say chams will eat sand or dirt when they're lacking other nutrients. I'm not sure how true that is, but as a test yesterday, I attached a few leaves of arugula to one of Claudia's vines yesterday. She went right for it and ate it, leaving just the stems behind. Since then, she hasn't eaten a drop of sand (my phone alerts me when she's down there, so I've got 24/7 monitoring on what she's doing). I don't know if it's a coincidence or what, but.. maybe try that?

Of course, Claudia is eating her normal feeders too while your little one isn't, so that changes things. Either way, I guess it can't hurt?
 
SocialNumb said:
Day 6, still not eating. Hardly has a urate and she went the tiniest poop. Mostly sand. :confused:

Some new pictures:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7339906/Chloë/image copy.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7339906/Chloë/image (2).jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7339906/Chloë/image (3).jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7339906/Chloë/image (4).jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7339906/Chloë/image (1).jpg
Click to expand...

I see you live in south Florida. I highly recommend you take her to Dr. Mader for an x-ray and see what he suggest. He's an awesome reptile vet. I drive four and a half hours to see him.
http://www.marathonvet.com/about-us/veterinarians/dr-doug-mader
 
carbyville said:
I'm sorry to hear she still isn't eating. It is so frustrating and scary when they don't eat! Have you tried offering her any greens or fruit? I know that they say chams will eat sand or dirt when they're lacking other nutrients. I'm not sure how true that is, but as a test yesterday, I attached a few leaves of arugula to one of Claudia's vines yesterday. She went right for it and ate it, leaving just the stems behind. Since then, she hasn't eaten a drop of sand (my phone alerts me when she's down there, so I've got 24/7 monitoring on what she's doing). I don't know if it's a coincidence or what, but.. maybe try that?

Of course, Claudia is eating her normal feeders too while your little one isn't, so that changes things. Either way, I guess it can't hurt?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I offer veggies and fruits all the time. She usually loves them but right now, nothing. She won't eat any.


Thanks jannb but there is slim to no chance I'm making it to the Keys. I'm looking for something closer but I have no idea who actually has any experience around here in Palm Beach County. The few places I looked up say "reptile vet" along with pretty much everything else you could have as a pet.

This is so frustrating. She appears to be very energetic even though she hasn't eaten. Before she ate a lot and was a lazy girl.


How long do they stay gravid by the way?
 
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