Concern ???

[Howdyco]

Cage Info:
Cage - Screen Cage 24x24x36 inches from LLLReptile.
Lighting - RZilla 5.0 UVB placed on top of cage. 75-watt ceramic spot bulb placed on side of cage. Cage gets some direct AM sunshine through a window.
Temperature - Temps during the day average 72-76 degrees in the ambient air in the bedroom the cage is kept. The basking spot is right around 90 degrees. Lowest overnight temp right now should be between 66-68 degrees? All temps measured with a thermometer.
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? I am not sure. Average humidity here is low right now. I have a Little Dripper on 24/7 to provide a constant water supply. I hand mist the cage at least 4-6 times a day until everything is soaked down. I wait until everything looks dry (approximately every 2-3 hours) and respray. I do not currently have any device to measure humidity, and am not sure what exactly it reaches.
Plants - I have one large ficus benjamina, two small sheffleras, one pothos, two plastic plant vines, some bio-vines and dowels are in use.
Location - The cage is located in our master bedroom. Traffic is average as the dog, cat and I frequent the room, but it is less active than much of the house. Tha cage is on a night table 3' off the floor with the top at 6' or eye level. Two floor vents are located within 10 feet of the cage at floor level.

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Flash is a juevenile panther of unknown exact age. We suspect the little male is around 3.5-4 months of age. My kids gave this little guy to me the week before Valentine's Day, so about a month in our care.
Handling - We are trying to minimize handling to around once a week or less.
Feeding - Until two days ago Flash was eating anywhere from 4-8 small crickets and/or Phoenix worms daily. He has had two mealworms as treats in the month I have had him, he tried silkworms and did not like them, and he has had a few houseflies as treats over the month. I was simply cup feeding him several times a day and he was eating great. All the crickets are gut-loaded with assorted fresh veggie scraps...like carrot, celery, bell peppers, broccoli, apples and potatoes.
Supplements - Calcium w/Vitamin D once every week. And Vitamin Supplement powder once a month.
Watering - Little Dripper on 24/7. Hand mist 4-6 times a day until everything is soaked down....let dry 2-3 hours and repeat. I see the Chameleon drink at least a small lick or two daily and try and mist him with warm water too.
Fecal Description - The droppings seem to have a black/dark portion and a clearish-whitish liquid. I checked the stools with a 40-power hand lens and they look consistent and normal. As far as I know, Flash has never been tested for parasites.
History - I really don't have any info - and the shop owner where the kids got him did not know much either. Flash was purchased and kept in a glass-screen EXO-TERRA reptile enclosure until about ten days ago.

Current Problem - Recently Flash seems to be less active and he has not eaten in nearly 36 hours. He also did not drink as much today has he has been.
I have noticed him still changing colors today....he is still in juevenile colors and only showing hints of greens/reds/blues. He has however been keeping his eyes closed a bit more than what was normal while he is basking.
Is this a growth phase he is going through or does this sound symptomatic of a bigger issue.
Attached are two pics from this AM.
Any help is appreciated.
Howie

 

[ponders]

Is your UV light a compact bulb?

 

[Howdyco]

ponders - until 10 days ago he was under a compact flouro that came with the EXO-TERRA we had him in.
After joining and reading here I replaced that light and the enclosure with the screen set-up and am using a flouescent tube light from RZilla that is supposedly rated 5.0 UVB.

 

[PITBULL]

What is the lighting schedule looking like? Hours on hours off?

 

[panthercrazy]

ponders - until 10 days ago he was under a compact flouro that came with the EXO-TERRA we had him in.
After joining and reading here I replaced that light and the enclosure with the screen set-up and am using a flouescent tube light from RZilla that is supposedly rated 5.0 UVB.

Is the Rzilla bulb a t5 (very skinny and the newest out)? Why I ask is when I used these, I found especially as new, the amount of uvb/radiation was unbelievable as to what come out...my bearded dragons actually ended up sunburning! They were in a 4ft l x 2ft w x 3 ft deep tank as well so not overly close to the bulb either.
I went back to the old style (even new bulb) T8s and no more issues?? I much prefer the Repti Sun bulbs and have experienced no issues at all with them.

I'm not sure if anyone else has experienced this but I'm sure you will get other great advice.

 

[Howdyco]

PITBULL - the lights are on for 12 hours per day, from about 7AM to 7PM nightly.

panthercrazy - yes it is a brand new fixture with the skinny bulbs. Should I change this fixture out for a ReptiSun 5.0 tube or something different?

Flash did just get misted and spent a long while drinking, still is drinking, as I type.

Thanks in Advance from a Concerned Parent.

 

[panthercrazy]

PITBULL - the lights are on for 12 hours per day, from about 7AM to 7PM nightly.

panthercrazy - yes it is a brand new fixture with the skinny bulbs. Should I change this fixture out for a ReptiSun 5.0 tube or something different?

Flash did just get misted and spent a long while drinking, still is drinking, as I type.

Thanks in Advance from a Concerned Parent.

When you say skinny bulbs? Is there 1 or 2 in that fixture? The Desert Series (rated 10%)has 2, but the Tropical (rated 7%)should only have 1. If you are using the Desert you very well may have too much UV.

 

[Howdyco]

panthercrazy - there is only one bulb, sorry for the miscue.

I turned off the UVB light for now and just tried to cup feed some crickets with no success. I also just remisted and he made no effort to move from his basking spot to get another drink.

 

[Brad Ramsey]

I am going to guess that the UVB light is the culprit ... only a guess, but I strongly recommend switching to the repti-sun 5.0.
Buy it from LLL ... you can't get them any cheaper (13.99) I think Scales and Tails charges around $45.
He can go without the UVB light for a few days while it ships.
Who is your reptile vet here?
It may warrant a health check and would not be a bad idea to take in a fecal sample.

-Brad

 

[Howdyco]

I will order the new light now. Thank You.

Brad Ramsey - I currently do not have a vet for him. That was going to be my next question for everyone. Is there someone local you might recommend? Thanks in advance.

FWIW I did see him poop/pee yesterday afternoon about this time, but not since. It looked normal.

Howie

 

[Brad Ramsey]

We go to Dr. Ted Cohn at University Hills Animal Hospital:

http://uhah.net/

There is a picture of Kitty on their website.
Dr. Cohn has kept chameleons himself and is quite knowledgeable about reptiles in general.
Check out his bio on the website ... we like him a lot.

-Brad

 

[Dave Weldon]

...until 10 days ago he was under a compact flouro that came with the EXO-TERRA we had him in.
After joining and reading here I replaced that light and the enclosure with the screen set-up and am using a flouescent tube light from RZilla that is supposedly rated 5.0 UVB.

Howdy Howdyco rolleyes,

I would really like to know the details of the RZilla UVB light source that you've been recently using. A photo of the box or a link to an internet site showing the exact model would be very helpful. If it is the RZilla 5.0 it isn't as dangerous as the RZilla Series 50 or the Series 25 but none the less, you will be better off with a Zoomed Reptisun 5.0 tube. For example, if it was the Desert Series 50 then he's lucky to still be alive (no kidding ). If it is the Series 25 then it'll take twice as long to kill him . The 50 and the 25 have essentially been pulled from production due to reptile deaths. I've personally photographed a keeper's blistered to death Panther. Her's was not the only one that I took the report from to get them out of production. The mfgr is in the process of reformulating them.

By the way, it isn't just the uW/cm2 level that was the problem but also a combination of the spectral content that made them so dangerous.

 

[kinyonga]

You said..."Calcium w/Vitamin D once every week. And Vitamin Supplement powder once a month"...IMHO you should be giving a phosphorous-free calcium powder at most feedings and could cut the calcium/D3 one back to once a month.

 

[Howdyco]

Thank You All.

Brad Ramsey - Thank You for the recommendation.

Dave Weldon - I am sorry but the box was trashed. The Bulb is an RZilla 12 Watt T5 MP Tropical T5. Says only for Reptiles on the bulb. If a picture would help I can take one later. FWIW it came from Petco I believe.

kinyonga - thank you. Is there a specific Calcium product you would recommend?

The little guy did poop and pee yesterday but the crickets in the feeder cup remain untouched. I collected the stool for a sample. The urate/liquid part was clearish white. The stool although small was dark on one end with a yellowish part and looks fairly normal.

I truely appreciate the ideas and suggestions.
Howie

 

[Dave Weldon]

...Dave Weldon - I am sorry but the box was trashed. The Bulb is an RZilla 12 Watt T5 MP Tropical T5. Says only for Reptiles on the bulb. If a picture would help I can take one later. FWIW it came from Petco I believe.
Howie

Howdy Howie,

It looks like you may have one of the deadly RZilla series versions. "The "T5" description that you noted is its size, not its strength. Each "T" value represents 1/8" of an inch in tube diameter. Your current RZilla fixture only accepts 5/8" diameter tubes. You will need to switch to a T8 tube (Zoomed Reptisun 5.0) with a length of 18" and buy a fixture that supports that length.

This is probably the fixture that you have: http://www.petco.com/Assets/product_images/0/096316670372b.jpg

You are likely to be using one of these dangerous tubes:
Series 25: http://www.petco.com/product/108312...escent-12-Watt-Bulb.aspx?CoreCat=OnSiteSearch

Series 50: http://www.petco.com/product/108304...ent-30-Inch-T5-Bulb.aspx?CoreCat=OnSiteSearch

The results of short-term exposure to the Series 50:

Example of UVB levels at 1" away (and this doesn't even represent the dangerous spectral content below the 290nm wavelength that was detected by using an optical spectrometer ). In case you can't read the value, it's 1752uW/cm2. Talk about frying an egg.... Add that to the "out-of-band" energy and you truly have a "death ray".

 

[Howdyco]

Thank You Dave. That is the fixture we were using is the one pictured in your petco link.

I turned it off yesterday afternoon. I have been letting the little guy adjust to a more normal daylight situation and he has moved up to bask in natural light from his "sleeping perch." His eyes are still closed alot, but he is moving about.

Now for the hard question:
Did we inadvertantly cause my the little guy extensive damage and is there anything we can do for him or should do to try and nurse him back to health. Or should we just try and make him comfortable.
I guess I am asking the members here if they think there is any hope for recovery for him?
And if not what is the most "humane" way to treat him?

I am sad for Flash, mad at myself, and appreciate any help and comments.
Thanks
Howie

 

[Brad Ramsey]

Please don't be mad at yourself.
It's not your fault there are dangerous products out there and often bad advice given by those we trust (or assume) to be knowledgeable.
My experience with recovery from this exposure is nil.
I think you may have to just wait and see. Keep him hydrated and (at least at this point) I wouldn't force feed ... when was the last time he ate?

-Brad

 

[PITBULL]

I'm no expert but I've had a similar experience years ago, when I first entered the hobby, with a bad uvb light (can't remember what brand) and my cham was able to recover after turning off the light for a few days and replacing the bulb. Also, what I didn't know at the time was that, the basking spot for my cham was too close to the fixture which I also adjusted. Goodluck and keep us updated.

 

[Howdyco]

Brad Ramsey - I really appreciate your comments. My wife and kids also told me not to beat myself up over this, but I feel horrible.

I know that he has not eaten in nearly 48 hours at this point.

I was thinking about changing the crickets out of the cup and offering some Phoenix worms to see if that sparks anything in his appetite.

I did mist him and the area down just now and he immediately opened his mouth and drank. His tongue came out and he actually took a a few drops directly out of a dropper.

My plan is to leave him alone as much as possible under ambient room light.
Keep vigilant on my misting regimen and watch him over the weekend.

I appreciate the comments and support.
Howie

 

[Brad Ramsey]

When he opens his mouth to drink like that, you may try putting a cricket in there and see if he will eat it.
He is young so ideally it would be great to get some nourishment in him, but I am really opposed to force feeding if there is an alternative.
Keep us posted.

-Brad