Concerned again with Pascal

[Andee]

I wouldn't recommend feeding that much carnivore care in a day at once ever, most to feed a liquid diet 5cc in stages of course and then feed his silkworms.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Hi again, sorry guys been a day here. Anyways, I have been doing 50/50 Pedialyte and water 3cc orally once a day. He gets a 20-30 minute shower once a day. He gets misted every 2 hours. He gets 6-8cc of Carinvore care once a day unless he eats his silkworms. I do take him outside as much as possible. As for his pooping, one I first got him he would only go about once every one to two weeks. It seems like he came with a pooping problem of that makes sense. He still seems like himself except his back grip is weak and he won't eat on his own. I think I answered all the questions...if I missed some let me know. I appreciate any and all advice. I am really really trying to pull him through this. I think my biggest question is how much to feed? I'm I doing alright or not enough? Thanks again.

Six to eight CCs of Carnivore care seems like a heck of a lot of volume not to mention from a calorically. Are you sure you don't mean .6CC to .8CCs (6/10ths CC to 8/10ths CC)?

 

[Rapunzel's Pascal]

Hi jajeanpierre, here is what i wrote to Andee from earlier today when I gave a brief overview of what happened to Pascal:

It all started back in July. I noticed he didn't pooped for a while. He actually never had been a good pooper. He would go every 1-2 weeks only. Well back at the end of July it was going on 3 weeks. He also wasn't eating well. So I made his first vet appointment. We did x-rays and his exam showed a fecal impaction. He got a enema, but nothing was produced. He was put on Cisapride to help move things through. The very next day I woke to him not gripping with his back legs at all. My vet then prescribed the Metacam because she thought he was painful.

Moving along with the story he has had 3 enemas, was also prescribed Metaclopermide and Tramadol as well. Still nothing. She always wanted me to push hydration, so he gets showered and oral fluids as well. He even had Sub-q fluids once. He wasn't on the Tramadol long because he started open mouth gapping while on it. That stopped once the med stopped.

On the 19th of this month I came home from work to find that he had diarrhea ALL over his enclosure. There was even a touch of blood in it. Hence, the term diarrhea explosion. He pooped a tiny amount last Thursday as well.

I just got off the phone with my vet and she isn't to worried yet. She completely agreed with what you said Andee. It may just take a little longer to get things moving. So that is where we are at. She did start him on a kidney supplement to help support them.

This is a very short version of everything that has been going on. If you have any further questions just let me know.

I hope the above helped to explain things. I do appreciate everyone's help. Thank you

 

[Rapunzel's Pascal]

No I was doing exactly as I said. I am an LVT. I don't know if I mentioned that. The vet said to give him 4cc of Pedialyte/water am and pm, but I ended up just doing what I said earlier.

So Andee if I do 5cc of carnivore care, 3cc of his Pedilyte and water, I am then also supposed to give him his worms? Sorry if I seem like an idiot, but Pascal is my very first chameleon. I have nursed about a ton of sick beardies and a Chinese Water Dragon, but never a chameleon. Thanks

 

[Andee]

I honestly give Ryker 4.5 cc, and currently he's gaining weight (which is much needed) he doesn't get any other feeders because he's a pain when it comes to them, and I don't do carnivore care AT ALL with him because he gets natural uvb so much. He does however get liquid calcium and other supplements. And I have honestly had chameleons who have more troublesome bowels etc, get more stopped up on Carnivore care... not sure why, I make mine super thin when I use it with other reptiles.

 

[Rapunzel's Pascal]

So can I ask you what you suggest for Pascal as far as feeding? He has been extremely good about taking his silkworms, if I place them in his mouth. I was debating about trying it with crickets and hornworms. He won't touch dubias. Normally he won't touch horn worms either, but I thought I would try. Thanks for the responses.

 

[Andee]

I definitely recommend try to get some hard shelled feeders in there if you can. Is Pascal gets outside for several hours once a week (or a cumulative number of hours through out the week) ditch anything with d3 or if you use a d3 supplement use it sparingly, maybe every 3 months until he's not getting sun regularly at all and then you can go back to carnivore care if needed. I currently have a decent blender (not anything extravagent) that is used for blending feeders, water, and any supplements for that day. I fill it with about 12 3/4 inch sized dubia, or something similar and then a farrier feeder like 4 super worms. I fill it with water just enough to cover them and then blend them until they are pulverized. Do .75-.8 cc increments every half hour at most. It should be rather thin and liquidy.... have you been doing pastry and then putting it on his nose? All my guys have normal bowel movements with this stuff.

 

[Rapunzel's Pascal]

Hey Andee, thanks for the advice. I can definitely try to do that. When I currently make up the carnivore care I make it more watery, then paste like. I just found with him, he takes it better this way. Again, thanks for all the advice and I will pick up a cheap blender and label it bug blender

 

[Angelwolf]

I was just about to suggest blending bugs, myself. You can probably work your Pedialyte into it, too. It may also be worth mentioning that he could have an issue with his jaw/mouth/tongue, which is why he won't hunt on his own. Of course, some chams will also get lazy.

 

[jajeanpierre]

@Rapunzel's Pascal I wonder if he has enlarged kidneys which is causing a physical blockage. Enlarged kidneys,, I believe, can also press on the nerves causing hind limb weakness/paralysis. (So can constipation.)

What did the vet prescribe for kidneys? Why?

After an episode of explosive diarrhea, I would not expect a bowel movement for a long time. I've read it takes three days or so for food to pass through the gut but I can't find a link to where I read it. (I think it was on madcham.de which is the site of a chameleon researcher in Madagascar.)

 

[Rapunzel's Pascal]

Hey again guys. Pascal had an x-ray at his first visit and his bone density looked great. He has had no issues with his mouth or jaw that I am aware of. His liver and kidney both looked normal then too. We did an ultrasound a week or two later and his liver and kidneys looked good then. At his last visit she felt him all over and said he looks and feels good.

I can't remember the name of the supplement he was started on for his kidneys. It starts with an R, I know that. He was put on it to protect his kidneys.

My vet said the same thing about him pooping. She said it may take him a while to get back on track. I was able to give him 8 superworms in a slurry today. He didn't protest at all. I need to order more silkworms, but need to find who has some first...

Thanks again everyone

 

[jajeanpierre]

Hey again guys. Pascal had an x-ray at his first visit and his bone density looked great. He has had no issues with his mouth or jaw that I am aware of. His liver and kidney both looked normal then too. We did an ultrasound a week or two later and his liver and kidneys looked good then. At his last visit she felt him all over and said he looks and feels good.

I can't remember the name of the supplement he was started on for his kidneys. It starts with an R, I know that. He was put on it to protect his kidneys.

My vet said the same thing about him pooping. She said it may take him a while to get back on track. I was able to give him 8 superworms in a slurry today. He didn't protest at all. I need to order more silkworms, but need to find who has some first...

Thanks again everyone

You sure are going the extra mile for your guy. It takes a lot of dedication and hard work to have to deal with this.

I hope it all works out and you get him back on track. Sometimes they get constipated if they get dehydrated. I can't remember how much you mist, but really high humidity will help with his hydration.

 

[Rapunzel's Pascal]

Thank you so much for the kind words. You honestly don't know how much that means to me right now. We have had a rough few months (my husband lost his job June 20th). Also with two little girls, sometimes things can be crazy as I am sure everyone knows.

Pascal gets misted every 2 hours right now. The misting time very from 5-10 minutes each time. He also gets a 20-30 minute shower a day. Which by the way my youngest daughter who is only 19 months thinks is hilarious. When he was really really bad, I was doing 2 mistings up to 15-20 minutes each. I cut back a little now. My vet says he looks plenty hydrated now.

I pray every day he pulls through. He really has been such a trooper through all of this. Only the first vet appointment was he really mad, but other than that he takes everything in stride .

Thanks again

 

[Andee]

I agree with Janet, I deal with stuff like this on a regular basis (as does she when she gets some newbies in) and it can wear on your spirit, I say as long as he is generally doing well and currently we don't know whether he is improving or not, I would say currently definitely waiting is the only way to tell for now. But he seems ok. Keep up with him. Keep breathing, give him the tools, they surprise me so often and it's so worth it.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Thank you so much for the kind words. You honestly don't know how much that means to me right now. We have had a rough few months (my husband lost his job June 20th). Also with two little girls, sometimes things can be crazy as I am sure everyone knows.

Pascal gets misted every 2 hours right now. The misting time very from 5-10 minutes each time. He also gets a 20-30 minute shower a day. Which by the way my youngest daughter who is only 19 months thinks is hilarious. When he was really really bad, I was doing 2 mistings up to 15-20 minutes each. I cut back a little now. My vet says he looks plenty hydrated now.

I pray every day he pulls through. He really has been such a trooper through all of this. Only the first vet appointment was he really mad, but other than that he takes everything in stride .

Thanks again

I'm really sorry you've had some tough times on top of the tough time you are having with your boy.

I've worked with some pretty sick animals and there isn't a lot you can do for them except support them. Try to reduce his stress. Think carefully about everything you do around him and to him and try to minimize any interaction with him. Small things can make a huge difference to a gravely sick animal. Have everything prepared before you open his cage door, so you can medicate/feed him quickly. Try to eliminate any handling other than what is necessary. Double check your husbandry. Most chameleons can cope just fine when things aren't perfect but it really matters when they are sick.

Chameleons are pretty darn resilient and given half a chance will live.

 

[Rapunzel's Pascal]

You guys are the best and making me feel much better. I am doing everything you are saying. I only handle him right now for his meds/ food and his showers. My girls are both super good and respectful toward my lizards and don't mess with them unless I give the ok. With Pascal, it is an absolute no at the moment. I have his enclosure temps and humidity spot on. I am definitely trying my best with Pascal. He is a fighter for sure. Thanks again.

 

[Angelwolf]

I pray every day he pulls through. He really has been such a trooper through all of this. Only the first vet appointment was he really mad, but other than that he takes everything in stride .

I have been thinking about you and your cham every day, and have been keeping up with your thread. I think he will pull through. He's most definitely a fighter, and with you in his corner, he's sure to beat this! Do you have any recent pictures of your man? I would love to have a scale face to go with the name!

 

[Rapunzel's Pascal]

Thank you for the kind words. Here is Pascal.

 

[Rapunzel's Pascal]

Hey guys, guess what? I came home to poop!!! I have never been so happy to see poop in my life...lol. It was soft to diarrhea, but hey I will take it

He also is shedding. So yippy.

Here is some more pictures of my boy.

 

[Kristen Wilkins]

@Rapunzel's Pascal this is great news !!. YAY !!. He really looks fantastic your doing such a wonderful job . He's so very lucky to have you .