Could use help and guidance - new veiled owner with new rescue

[wodesorel]

Vet will be in on Tuesday. Couldn't do anything with how late it came on Friday.

Another smaller movement this morning/overnight. Dehydration. Does anyone know how long yellow urates will show after a major dehydration event? I don't know if this is a sign she's not drinking now, or if it's still her system straightening out from before. I'll have had her a week tomorrow, and Friday was her first movement.

 

[wodesorel]

Normal looking today! Three huge chunks. If there were urates they were lost to the plant though.

 

[Andee]

YAY for normal poo <3 XD

 

[wodesorel]

I think she's looking good? (I am stressing so badly over if she's okay! She hates the mister which is making me even more strung out...)

I am finding several dead superworms and crickets on the bottom of the cage. She's getting them with enough force to kill them but doesn't seem to always be getting the back into her mouth okay? She's postured for me several times and there is no signs of infection inside her mouth. At least she's given me a good view of that!

 

[Andee]

If she's not getting them back into her mouth well it could be her tongue isn't sticky enough, which can happen because of dehydration or vitamin deficiency. Vitamins can be fixed over time, or with a vitamin shot from a vet. Dehydration of course just takes lots of time and nice long mists, maybe a few showers.

 

[wodesorel]

I was thinking about doing a shower for her. I want to pick up a different plant (umbrella) for her cage, and then could use the pothos as a shower plant. Not sure how to get her out without stressing her out though?

 

[Andee]

Try using a bendable vine or a stick to transfer her? Instead of your hand, a lot of the time chams are more receptive to that.

 

[wodesorel]

Thanks!!

 

[wodesorel]

So... I have no idea what the heck I'm doing. I got a week and a half in and I'm still freaking out.

Will be relying on hubby to get the stool sample in the to the vet, since he works with him. Been waiting on her giving one since Monday night. Vet wants to see that before we decide whether to bring her in. Ohio weather is sucking at the moment and he wants to keep her as stress free as possible right now. Unfortunately we don't have a reptile specialist nearby, although this vet has seen many over the years and is awesome about keeping up with current research.

Going to go ahead and fill this out, because I'm really worried she's not drinking.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - Veiled, Female, supposedly 1.5 years, 1.5 weeks
• Handling - Twice now - once to get her into the cage when we got her, and today when getting her into and out of the shower.
• Feeding - Crickets and superworms. 8 crickets a day (some are escaping) and 3 superworms in a cup. Feeders gutloaded with a organic carrot and apple, and a dry mix of grain, bran and flaxseed. She is eating maybe half of what is being offered, the rest is found dead in the cage.
• Supplements - Exo-terra calcium without D3, on everything, every time.
• Watering - Spraying 3 to 5 times a day, with it being dry between mistings. She runs from the mister so have only been wetting the plant. I have never seen her drink. Have a dripper that runs about 9 hours a day that falls where she likes to lay. Watered her in the shower the first time today but I think she slept through it.
• Fecal Description - See above posts. Getting it checked as soon as she gives me a fresh sample.
• History - See topic, abused by previous owner and provided with improper care for the past year.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Exo-terra screen, 18x18x36.
• Lighting - Exo-terra 10.0 UVB lifted 6 inches above cage top since she sits against the screen. 10am to 10 pm. The room is dark and she sleeps until 10am.
• Temperature - Using a heat gun, I'm aiming for 85 basking, 80 lower reaches and 80 overnight. Ohio weather is not playing nice and it's gotten up to 90 in the room a few times.
• Humidity - Room is 30-40%, inside the cage is 40-50% between sprayings, shoots up to 70% during mistings. Calibrated hygrometer.
• Plants - Yes, just swapped a pothos for a schefflera while she was out tonight to give her better cover.
• Placement - In a closed off dedicated critter room with only me going in to do care and visits. No drafts. Top of cage is 7 feet from floor.
• Location - Ohio.

Current Problem - Not sure she's drinking enough!!

She seems okay, in some ways she seems stronger, but she's not eating as steady as I'd like to see and I have yet to see her drink. She closes her eyes and tries to get away from any moving water. I tried holding up a mealworm for her yesterday and she suddenly shot with chicken pox markings, which she'd never done before. (I backed off after that and have only been doing bare minimums so as not to upset her.) She is definitely getting more color back and is responding to stimulus so I am very much hoping that is a good sign? The first week she did nothing. She seemed to have a much stronger grip on my hand tonight than the first day I had her and didn't shake as much. She seems to sleep a lot. She is directly under the UVB lighting all day long, and come to think of it sleeps in the exact same location all night long. I know she has a lot of healing to do, but I'm not sure just what to expect along the way.

Put her in the shower for about 20 minutes today but I think she fell asleep because I didn't see her try to drink once...

I'm probably freaking out over nothing, but it would be nice to know if there is anything to be worried about, or something I should be doing different? Should I try another shower with her, and how soon?

 

[Andee]

She should not be sleeping during the day. And the uvb may be playing a part in why she is closing her eyes. A 10.0 is too strong and can be detrimental on chameleon eyes. It is made for desert lizards, I always use 5.0, are you using a compact bulb?

 

[wodesorel]

Tube - I checked with the local reptile rescue before I got it and they suggested using the 10 for the extra boost so she wouldn't get getting too little. I've seen here on the forums that either are recommended and I know that the screen will filter out a fair amount. I did not expect her to want to sit so close to it all the time! I know they like being high, but I figured she'd go for the middle where there is more cover. I can toss a second chunk of screening on to filter more, but without a UVB measuring thingy I really worry about her getting enough.

 

[Andee]

If it's a tube then I wouldn't worry about it being too strong as much then, usually when people get 10.0 they get the compact on top of that and it really messes with them. She should be ok with the screen blocking some of the rays as well... hmmm... The reason she may be running from the mister is the size of the water droplets? I noticed my boy didn't like the larger droplets as much as he liked it when I got my mistking, it has a very almost fog like spray except it's more powerful so it's still putting out more water than a fogger would. He will literally sit in the mist now.

Are you using warm water or cold water with her mistings?

 

[Andee]

Oh just so you know, she doesn't look that dehydrated from the more recent pics you've posted. Her body is still probably in recovery mode so her general hydration levels are still probably low, but she looks like she's out of the danger zone and that she's been drinking enough right now. If you are that worried about what she's drinking though, I would add some hornworms or silkworms into her diet as soon as possible. The extra hydration from those guys is the easiest way to make sure they are well hydrated. I don't know a cham alive who will turn down both, certain chameleons will turn down one or the other, but I've never met one who turns down both.

Hornworms are the most water filled, they are great, and my boy never turns them down. But they can be harder to feed off enough of because they grow so fast. Silkworms you can at least feed off all the worms and then if you have any turn into moths, you breed them yourself. Silkworms are really easy to breed.

The quickest way to tell a dehydrated cham from the outside, other than the poop, is to look at her eye turrets. If they look sunken at all, it pretty much means severely dehydrated and not doing well. It means immediate action is needed to change things. She looks like she has pretty good turrets from where she came from and how little time she's been under your care, and is on the way to recovery. All she needs is to get her MBD solved and she will be there.

A great way to help with MBD is if you are having some decent weather right now and having some sunshine, take her outside for some natural sun. Even if you are nervous about her getting away and get her a small screened in enclosure so you can do things without having to watch her the entire time, the benefit of the natural UVB compared to synthetic is AMAZING. I take my boy Ryker out at least once a week. In my opinion the sun actually helps with healing processes in not just bones but also his burn scars. Ryker has some severe burns from my stupidity as a first time keeper and having to learn a lesson with halogen bulbs.

 

[wodesorel]

How cool can they handle? I've been wanting to take her out but it hasn't been much above 60 on a good day, mostly in the 50s if it's sunny but it's getting colder by the day. I've got a short Japanese Maple that is off by itself in full sun where she'd be safe from wandering away and I could get to her easily. I was surprised she climbed right up on my hand with little prompting. Anything higher she immediately reaches for, so getting her outside shouldn't be a problem. I could even get her into the pothos and hang that in the tree.

I read that sleeping during was a bad sign, but given what she's gone through I'm wondering if it's to be expected? I know with cats and with the geckos if they came from bad conditions all they do is sleep for about the first month while recovering.

Glad to hear she is looking okay. She felt softer, which I was hoping was a good sign, too. I don't have much of a reference to compare to aside from photos. The juvie at one pet store looked so much worse. And the good pet store only has a single gorgeous big panther male as she won't order in females unless someone requests it specifically. That was like apples and oranges!

I went from a pump mister that had bigger droplets to a hand mister that puts out a very fine mist. She didn't like either. I keep the bottle next to the heat lamp so the spray ends up being room temp, around 80 degrees. The heat gun is the best invention ever!

I'm trying to get some things sold off so I can order in the feeders because I'm a little short. No luck locally. Our insurance company screwed up some bills last week and now we're on the hook for more than planned, and we had a stray kitten walk into our house this weekend so that needed to be dealt with, too! These things always come in multiples, I swear. I may steer clear of silkworms since I read they have a high allergy rate. I'm concerned that I'm showings signs of sensitation to the mealworms even.... Need to keep exposure low to other staples in case I have to swap out in the future.

 

[wodesorel]

Still no poop this week! Hoping she does something today as they'll be there tomorrow to do a fecal... Otherwise it might get a little hairy with the holiday next week.

Do pets EVER cooperate?

 

[Andee]

They are there to make us worried XD plain and simple <3,

I wouldn't put her outside unless it was 70 degrees or warmer. I was worried it was going to be too cool where you are. Even where I am it's cooling down an awful lot. It's been hard getting days to put anyone outside.

I don't know if it's to be expected or not the whole sleeping thing. I would still worry about it. Can't wait for that vet visit. Hopefully everything will check out ok.

 

[wodesorel]

Talked with the vet today - he thought the sleeping should be normal while she's in healing mode. Dropped off a stool sample and we'll go from there once they analyze it later today.


Also - are chams always so weird?

I am fine.
Tongs are fine.
Superworms are fine. Good even, since she eats them.

However me holding a superworm in tongs is apparently akin to the coming of Cthulhu and she freaks out. I don't get it?

 

[brownie64]

I can't wait until you get that fecal back it really isn't good she is sleeping during the day like that I hope she hasn't got an issue with parasites. I noticed you haven't been using calcium with D3, or a multivitamin. They really should also be used especially in her condition. I would give her the calcium with D3 once every two weeks, and the multivitamin once every two weeks not to be given at the same time. Good luck.

 

[wodesorel]

She got D3 the first two days I had her since it was what I had on hand. We'll have had her two weeks tomorrow.

 

[brownie64]

She got D3 the first two days I had her since it was what I had on hand. We'll have had her two weeks tomorrow.

Okay that's good I just didn't see it in your care form you filled out so I wasn't sure if you was using it. Are you going to give her the multivitamin as well?