summoner12
Avid Member
I am stepping into my bunker...
but before I do. Cricket Crack FTW!
but before I do. Cricket Crack FTW!
Cricket Crack
- Thread starter graydon
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Julirs
New Member
Kevin-do you feed your crickets nothing else?
summoner12
Avid Member
I give them carrots... but it gives my Melleri' gullar adema..... so I don't do it in large amounts. I give them reg. and sweet patato. I use these blue water crystals someone gave me at an SBCK meeting and I use Ryan's clear crystals with water.
I need to do a better job with my gutload.... BUT... Crickets aren't really a staple at my house. I normally have silk worms, horn worms, super worms and butter worms.
So..... yes, you want to gutload the crickets... but you should mix things up a bit with other feeders.
Julirs
New Member
I give them carrots... but it gives my Melleri' gullar adema..... so I don't do it in large amounts. I give them reg. and sweet patato. I use these blue water crystals someone gave me at an SBCK meeting and I use Ryan's clear crystals with water.
I need to do a better job with my gutload.... BUT... Crickets aren't really a staple at my house. I normally have silk worms, horn worms, super worms and butter worms.
So..... yes, you want to gutload the crickets... but you should mix things up a bit with other feeders.
LOL-Then you don't even belong in this argument!
summoner12
Avid Member
LOL-Then you don't even belong in this argument!
Fiiiiiiinnnnnnne, I'll throw some mud.... People using dog or cat food as gotload for any feeders, are unedumicated!
Ok. Happy?
warpdrive
Avid Member
as I already stated, cricket crack is ultra high in protien (at least it's not animal protien),...on it's own it's bad. with irregular use, it's great.
as for using carrots and gullar adema...I always thought that gullar adema came from high protien use, not beta carotene.
(not even sure gullar adema is spelled correctly.)
...and quite posably gravid females get it the most. might also be a lack of preformed vit A.
a great way to give crickets water is to use a slice of orange instead of the carrots or water crystals.
cheap and good for you and your cham...but what do I know, I'm unedumicated too!
again, just my 2 cents.
Harry
edit: looked it up, it's spelled gular edema.
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I was reading the cricket cube ingredients at a pet store 2 days ago, and other than calcium, I did not see anything else on the label that showed they are a balanced vitamin rich diet........
warpdrive
Avid Member
I was reading the cricket cube ingredients at a pet store 2 days ago, and other than calcium, I did not see anything else on the label that showed they are a balanced vitamin rich diet........
ingredients: water, carageenan, soya protein, dryed brewers yeast, dryed kelp, calcium carbonate, potassium sorbate, ascobic acid, citric acid, yellow #6 food color...for anyone who cares to know.
Harry
gmotdot
New Member
I was reading the cricket cube ingredients at a pet store 2 days ago, and other than calcium, I did not see anything else on the label that showed they are a balanced vitamin rich diet........
Contain nutritious kelp, spirulina, brewer's yeast, and more to gutload crickets for a nutrition-packed meal. Essential vitamins, including Vitamins A, B12, E, and D3, as well as calcium. Easily digestible by both crickets and your reptile. Drastically reduces the number of nutrient-deficient crickets.
bridgofaith
Avid Member
Reduces the number of nutrient-deficient crickets. Great. What about your nutrient-deficient cham? The people on this forum are here to help and are giving you excellent feedback. It's your choice as to listen or not.
I use Steve's Cricket Crack almost exclusively. I supplement with fresh fruits and veggies here and there. I also make a "mash" out of the Cricket Crack by mixing it with water. Personally, I read the Fluker's label to mean that it is complete for CRICKETS, not for chams. Yes, your crickets can survive just fine on there products, but your cham needs more than that.
Still, I agree that nothing is better than a good variety of fresh fruits and veggies.
P.S. PURE was right.
warpdrive
Avid Member
that's a sales pitch...now give us the amounts that it contains please.
trace amounts don't count, m'kay?
oh, and it seems that my orange cubes from flukers is an older lable or the kind that doesn't contain D3 in it.
Harry
SSimsswiSS
Avid Member
Okay,
If we could get a cricket analyzed from the feedings it would tell us alot more.
I try to look at protein content that most likely would be consumed by wild chameleons.
(note: these are vague averages, without real field study)
Diptera/ Flies are in the teens to 50% in some species.
Locust/grasshopper usually hover around 60% crude protein.
Beetles in the 50% range, with higher % in their grub forms.
These insects feed on protein in one form or another, like nitrogen from plant/animals sources.
Most of the ingredients I use fall into the high teens to twenties range from plant proteins. Most crickets on their own hover around 20%.
So if I can can get the crickets to eat these ingredients, the goal is to boost the entire body structure (example: muscle structure=higher jumping as witnessed) and raise protein level of crickets to those that might be naturally preyed apon in the wild.
Because we all know (at lease I think we all know) theres nothing natural about a chameleon eating crickets in the wild. Although I think it's safe to say Chamaeleo calyptratus calyptratus is a captive domesticated (not always tame) cricket eating animal.
If we could get a cricket analyzed from the feedings it would tell us alot more.
I try to look at protein content that most likely would be consumed by wild chameleons.
(note: these are vague averages, without real field study)
Diptera/ Flies are in the teens to 50% in some species.
Locust/grasshopper usually hover around 60% crude protein.
Beetles in the 50% range, with higher % in their grub forms.
These insects feed on protein in one form or another, like nitrogen from plant/animals sources.
Most of the ingredients I use fall into the high teens to twenties range from plant proteins. Most crickets on their own hover around 20%.
So if I can can get the crickets to eat these ingredients, the goal is to boost the entire body structure (example: muscle structure=higher jumping as witnessed) and raise protein level of crickets to those that might be naturally preyed apon in the wild.
Because we all know (at lease I think we all know) theres nothing natural about a chameleon eating crickets in the wild. Although I think it's safe to say Chamaeleo calyptratus calyptratus is a captive domesticated (not always tame) cricket eating animal.
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meaghan
New Member
wow
gmotdot... you are pretty pretentious
everyone on this forum means well, and as long as I have been on here I have never seen someone be so rude to the other forum members. This forum is about learning and most of the people giving advice have kept Chameleons several years and really know their stuff, so i think you need to be much more respectful
gmotdot... you are pretty pretentious
everyone on this forum means well, and as long as I have been on here I have never seen someone be so rude to the other forum members. This forum is about learning and most of the people giving advice have kept Chameleons several years and really know their stuff, so i think you need to be much more respectful
gmotdot
New Member
Sorry, you seem to be confused!??... I am trying to help YOU! So far, I am the one who has spent several thousand dollars on professional opinion (4 reptile experts)... until someone here can offer a significantly different professionally supported "theory", I am 100% satisfied I have done my due diligence in this matter...
Sorry Meaghan, to me YOUR response is grossly pretentious... When have I ever in this thread been rude??? I have been nothing but direct and honest... There have certainly been several rude responses to me (veiled vulgarities in acronyms included)... You speak of learning, and I am forwarding advice I have garnered at significant cost to myself... You, along with the great unwashed, seem to attribute post count to knowledge, which is unfortunate, because some "high post counts" in this, and other threads, are passing misinformation based upon their personal opinion which cannot be supported which is subsequently accepted as gospel.
PM me and show me where I was "rude" or "disrespectful", if I concede, I will apologize as required... otherwise, I am done with this thread, I am un-subscribing, I've done MY best to pass on the knowledge I have learned through my own research and experience...
Chris Anderson
Dr. House of Chameleons
gmotdot - According to a published study in the Journal of Herpetological Medicine and Surgery, which analyzed a number of commercial cricket diets, including Fluker's Orange Cube Complete Cricket Diet, "the use of a calcium-fortified dry diet" as opposed to calcium-fortified cricket waters or calcium-fortified high moisture diets (such as Fluker's Orange Cube Diet), "is recommended for supplementing crickets with sufficient calcium to meet the needs of insectivorous reptiles and amphibians" (Finke et al. 2004). They found that crickets fed the Fluker's Orange Cube Diet you are advocating did not have calcium content as high as the dry diet tested as a control. Since phosphorous levels was not effected by diet type, this means that the calcium to phosphorous ratio of crickets fed Fluker's Orange Cube diet was not as favorable as the dry diet they used (the control). Not exactly the "nutritionally ballanced", "complete solution" you've been led to believe it is, is it...?
Chris
Chris
bridgofaith
Avid Member
THANKS SO MUCH FOR YOUR HELP!! I will take it under as much consideration as you have taken all of ours! Have a good evening.
And good luck with your cham!!
Chris Anderson
Dr. House of Chameleons
graydon - You may not have been but gmotdot specificially was. But, since you're talking about the Fluker's Dry diet, there is another study from the same journal that compared four commercial calcium-fortified dry gutload products (including the Fluker's High-Calcium Cricket Feed). It found that crickets fed the Fluker's "contained no more calcium than those fed an unfortified diet and would likely be considered calcium deficient when used as food for insectivorous reptiles" (Finke et al. 2005).
Chris
Chris
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