DNA Database...

camaleonte82

camaleonte82

New Member
Ok. so i know this is going to sound preposterous and alot of you will think im crazy and will have plenty of reasons to disagree with me and probably have alot of info to shoot holes into my theory.
But.
I think we should have a DNA Database for chameleons.
Even ones who are sick. this could help not only with breeding but also with illnesses. now i understand 99% of us one here are just simple Cham owners and make our money with a day job and chams are a pet/hobby/obsession and some just happen to breed them. so its kind of an out there idea especially the amount of money it would use. but i know that alot of animal species have DNA Databases designed for their species bc of the large amounts of breeding and such here in the U.S
but i mean dont you think it would be cool to have a file cabinet filled with folders and to open one up and there is a picture of a chameleon with his name, DOH, DOD (if dead), Age, Sex, Local, Sire, Dam, Owner, Breeder and DNA info. it could be as simple as comparing DNA samples together to find the perfect match for a color trait or finding sex linked illnesses or tainted bloodlines....

to live in a world of computer based chameleon info so humans and chams can live in a new world of technology together and both utilize it!
but i guess thats as likely as teaching your cham to press a button when he is hungry and food is released into his cage robotically...
not a bad idea lol... jk

I'm a massive nerd.... <-- not jk about that lmao
 
Omg you know what would be so cool!?
an interactive online family tree! say that i posted a pic of my male panther and said that his sire was Reventon from screameleons (it is lol) and his mother was whatever dam (its in my email.) then someone could say "Hey, my cham has the same parents" and link their cham as his brother or sister, then Reventon could be linked as their father and his brother to him and all Reventon's children. then say we mate our male and we link her to him as his perminat mate and link their kids to them and people can link the babies they but from us with their mates and so on and so forth stretching out so far all over the world
.... like i said above ^^^ i'm a MASSIVE NERD :D
 
Do you actually mean a DNA database, or do you just mean a system for tracking what animal breeds with what, like a lineage database?
That was tried once, I think Chris Anderson could speak about it. My limited interaction with it was that is was difficult to use, not well utilized (its not like we have a chameleon society within which people want to have animals registered), and likely a pain to maintain. It died. It may simply have been an idea ahead of its time. People are more computer savy now than even just ten years ago.
 
I think it would be a great Idea, so their is no in breeding and geting freaks of nature, so Im all for it ,cuz I just ordered some from diferent areas of the country so as not to have relitives, I hope ? ,,
 
sandrachameleon said:
Do you actually mean a DNA database, or do you just mean a system for tracking what animal breeds with what, like a lineage database?
That was tried once, I think Chris Anderson could speak about it. My limited interaction with it was that is was difficult to use, not well utilized (its not like we have a chameleon society within which people want to have animals registered), and likely a pain to maintain. It died. It may simply have been an idea ahead of its time. People are more computer savy now than even just ten years ago.
Click to expand...

actually i meant both. i realize they are both pretty unrealistic.
i am a very technology addicted person and i love modern things and i already know that i want to have DNA art (the DNA code) of my future kids hung in my living room. but the problem is im not educated enough in coding to make any of this stuff myself.
 
A lineage tracker wouldn't be to hard to setup. The hard part would be enforcing data integrity. The source data has to be above speculation and without actually having DNA samples you have to go on the word of the breeders, not the consumers. This is because of the various avenues of purchase and possibility of mis-identification at pet shops, etc...

If you could get breeder buy in to the project:

Breeder inputs their breeder stock

Breeder would input count of offspring and date of clutches per breeding pair

Breeder would then enter when/who they sold the offspring to

Breeder provide the url of the offspring listed in the lineage tracker to the buyer

Buyer could go into the lineage tracker and update the state of the cham, and even track/list breeding and offspring and act as a breeder would.

The data only has value though if you have breeder buy in, but that's just my opinion.

Basically your talking about creation of the CBR (Chameleon Breeder Registry)
 
Wykd said:
A lineage tracker wouldn't be to hard to setup. The hard part would be enforcing data integrity. The source data has to be above speculation and without actually having DNA samples you have to go on the word of the breeders, not the consumers. This is because of the various avenues of purchase and possibility of mis-identification at pet shops, etc...

If you could get breeder buy in to the project:

Breeder inputs their breeder stock

Breeder would input count of offspring and date of clutches per breeding pair

Breeder would then enter when/who they sold the offspring to

Breeder provide the url of the offspring listed in the lineage tracker to the buyer

Buyer could go into the lineage tracker and update the state of the cham, and even track/list breeding and offspring and act as a breeder would.

The data only has value though if you have breeder buy in, but that's just my opinion.

Basically your talking about creation of the CBR (Chameleon Breeder Registry)
Click to expand...

honestly. i would do all of that. and i think that if when you Registered your cham hatchlings if they all got an identification number like birds do it would be easier to track them, especially if the I.D# was given to the buyer along with the parental info and a link to the CBR. almost like a simple Birth certificate
 
The numbering would be no problem it would be a byproduct of the database used to store the data anyways. /wink

This type of stuff is what I do for a living, share point, websites, database architecture, etc... the hard part is not the creation of the data repository, but the breeders actually taking the time to track and store the data and such. You would have ot make it worth their while. Create an actual reason for them to use the registry.

Make the registery an actual non profit organization and charge breeders membership to track their cham's. Then the breeders benefit from membership because they could charge a slight premium for CBR registered chameleons, etc... your basically talking the american kennel club for chameleons.
 
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i see...
well. an estimation then since this is what you do. how much would the buy in have to be? how much money would it take to create and run a CBR and if it went smoothly would it really be worth it?
 
When I refer to breeder buy in, I am referign to commitment to use and not so much as monetary buy in. :)

The "Registry" site hosting for it can be done for $50.00 or more a month depending on size/usage.

The value of the registry? Well that's not something I could answer. If you are going to make it more than just a database, and more so an organization then you have to get more in depth and do paper filing etc... to be a non profit org. and provide mission statement, membership guidelines, rules, breeding/locale standards, etc...

This could really snow ball into more than just a database if you want it to.
 
i guess the Value of it would have to be determined by the consumers.
and i guess as a billing it could be something like $2 per chameleon register or something along those lines. i just wish we could find out if people would actually use it or not
 
Do the cost as a yearly membership for breeders. That way john doe who just buys a pet and doesn't breed is not obligated to do anything. But should they choose to breed their cham and want to show its lineage and list the offspring they would have to pay a breeder membership.

If that makes any sense
 
Wykd said:
Do the cost as a yearly membership for breeders. That way john doe who just buys a pet and doesn't breed is not obligated to do anything. But should they choose to breed their cham and want to show its lineage and list the offspring they would have to pay a breeder membership.

If that makes any sense
Click to expand...

that does. so like, in child terms. when you buy a cham it has a pre made profile. and you can update it as a owner on his status. but if you breed him you pay the membership fee and you register his babies?
 
yup you set the site up to give access to edit a cham info to the those with breeder level access.
 
Isn't there already a breeder registry where you can create profiles for each animal? I forget what it's called but I made an account just to try it out. Perhaps someone else knows the site I'm thinking about. You can even update each profile with very specific information, such as feeding dates, shed dates, weights, laying dates, etc.
 
Olimpia said:
Isn't there already a breeder registry where you can create profiles for each animal? I forget what it's called but I made an account just to try it out. Perhaps someone else knows the site I'm thinking about. You can even update each profile with very specific information, such as feeding dates, shed dates, weights, laying dates, etc.
Click to expand...

i would love to know what that is!
 
Something like this is pretty cool. I had to use it for a uni project finding analogues of the same gene in different animals. I've forgotten how to use it lol, but I can look it up.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/guide/dna-rna/#databases_

It wouldn't be much use in breeding of chameleons & you can't document genomes of individual animals, but for a purely scientific use, it's great! For example, you can use it to compare the relatedness of 2 different chameleon species by looking at very specific DNA differences (down to a single base-pair), you can also compare the structure of the animal's proteins, which can show how the same genes can express different proteins in different species. The website can give you scores as to how closely related 2 species may be.
 
Jason Descamps and I put together and ran the Captive Chameleon Bloodline Tracking Database (CCBTD) in 2004 for a few years to do exactly this and it failed to take hold. Everyone liked the idea but getting people to use it was a challenge. The problem is you have to enter every animal individually and keep the database current with offspring, sales, etc. Numerous large breeders were interested in doing it, but none actually every did it because it takes too much time for them to do and there is limited incentive for them to make the effort. You can read about the efforts made at these links:

http://www.chameleonnews.com/04MayDescamps.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/why-not-breed-ambilobe-ambanja-7124/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/panther-hybrids-329/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/what-happened-bloodline-database-17060/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-many-liars-do-you-think-out-there-69565/

Chris
 
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