Ethics of rescuing from a shop? (Should I?)

[D4saken1]

Hello all I have been at a crossroads of sorts.

I visited a new petshop (old owners switched names due to bad reputation I found out from local reptile keepers in my area).

Now they have a 2.5 year old panther chameleon who's is a sweetheart. I've handled many chameleons and for some reason the moment I met him I fell in love and it broke my heart at the same time.

On one hand I really want to rescue the animal but the cost for him is quite high and I would need backing to get him in a timely manner so he doesn't have to stay there.

On the other hand if I buy him even to save him this just furthers their business. I have talked to a few people locally but they have had bad business interactions with this shop and are biased so I needed some unfamiliar people to talk to.

I made a GoFundMe me and I will not link it here unless the community is interested, because I one do not want to be or seem like a scammer and two I am not 100% if I should rescue/buy him yet so it's relegated to just sitting there until I get a good idea or not if I should proceed or drop this.

Info on the beauty himself:
2.5 years old
Male (of course by the hims I threw out)
About 14 inches long
Missing several toenails
Weak grip
Sleeps during the day and nearly all the time
Bad balance and Shakey grip
Cage is clearly small (juvenile cage, he himself takes up over half of the small space..)
They said he doesn't eat much (said he is just that way but I don't buy it)
His eyes are often closed or rarely full open.

I think overall he has mild hypovitaminosis.

Luckily his joints and tail are okay from what I could tell but I see him getting worse the longer the shop owns him.

Now sadly they have him priced at 490 dollars which is crazy and I cannot do that (I can get a setup and cage and I planned to get a new panther this spring when I have more but this just got to me)

Apparently he failed as a breeder so they just want him gone but for a hearty tag.

I do assume some things but I cannot help it after hearing how they talked and seeing him, his health, and cage first hand.

Now as I said before should I try to rescue this sweety or avoid it as to keep from "supporting" their business?

I just feel heart broken and cannot clearly get past my own feelings of wanting to rescue this chameleon.

Thanks for the time and sorry for the ramble and poor post structure.

The picture I am posting is about 6 months old when the first put him up for sale. So take the image itself with a grain or two of salt.

 

[D4saken1]

Here is an example of his cage and maybe I am wrong but his cage area is about 30 inches tall like this product here.

 

[RcManChild]

Where is the panther chameleon???

I would offer the shop what you think the chameleon is worth... just because the price tag is high doesn't mean they wont take a lower offer...
Try explaining to them that the chameleon is extremely unhealthy and take some time and money to bring his health back up. Point out what is wrong with the chameleon health wise and see what they say.

Rescue vs non rescue at a price that high is hard to come to grips with. If you have the money and have a healthy income I would say go for it before his health gets worse

 

[Remkon]

490$ buys me 3 panthers where I'm from ...

I would not do the purchase, for that 490$ they will likely make several other reptiles suffer...

He's a beauty tho!

 

[D4saken1]

Yeah I can get females for about 150 and males about 250 here because we don't have breeders near by.

I will see if I can talk them down. I worry if I bring up the health the owner may get offended and kick me out and refuse to sell to me.

I will work with price first then see what I can do.

The setup and all that I can do now just not their crazy tag on him. If this all works out first thing on the list is a vet visit.

I will try to answer any questions that may rise on this page.

I plan to take pictures of his cage, price, and him when I next visit the shop to do an update. Also a bit of proof of conditions.

Sadly they aren't open until Monday.

 

[Virgil1972]

I would not buy anything from a shop like that because it sounds like they do not care about the animals. Buy that cham and they will just buy another one especially if you pay the price they are asking. I personally think its best not to support those places that don't take care of the animals. I know it can be hard not to buy those animals because of their poor treatment.

 

[ShadowCry17]

Poor lil dude I'd rescue him and give stern words to the pet shop/breeder you'd get him from. All animals just want to exist and deserve a chance for full potential and to be healthy

 

[Nursemaia]

I agree with @Virgil1972 if you buy him you're going to perpetuate the problem with the pet store trade. Yes you'd save that one animal but another one is going to take his place. If you really want to help rescue adopt from Chameo or provide education to people about chams and their care.

 

[RcManChild]

I'd agree with Shadow Cry, After the purchase I would take the reptile to the vet and send the vet report to the authorities... recently a shop near me was closed down due to inappropriate condition for animals, although It seemed fine to me..

 

[D4saken1]

Sounds advice fellas. I know it's a kind of split subject and there are many reasons for both.

I really like the thought of his vet report being used to help animal services near by because they don't know reptiles here sadly. Then either a fine or something may be levied against them to push better care either by fear of being shut down or maybe a wake up call.

I think what I plan to do is this guy's. I am going to visit the shop tomorrow. I will see if I can get them to be reasonable with the price. If I can and I am able to get him I will take him to the vet and pass along the results to the proper authorities.

If I cannot get him to a reasonable price where they don't make heavy handed profit I will leave him.

 

[Virgil1972]

Sounds advice fellas. I know it's a kind of split subject and there are many reasons for both.

I really like the thought of his vet report being used to help animal services near by because they don't know reptiles here sadly. Then either a fine or something may be levied against them to push better care either by fear of being shut down or maybe a wake up call.

I think what I plan to do is this guy's. I am going to visit the shop tomorrow. I will see if I can get them to be reasonable with the price. If I can and I am able to get him I will take him to the vet and pass along the results to the proper authorities.

If I cannot get him to a reasonable price where they don't make heavy handed profit I will leave him.

If you can get the authorities to do something about it then go for it. I would research your state laws on animal neglect.

 

[D4saken1]

I wasn't going to post this as I was waiting until later but since I am going to try to get him at a reasonable and fair price and pursue from that angle.

http://www.gofundme.com/rescue-chameleon-from-shop

Only if you feel okay with it and you don't feel worried about what will be done with the money.

Everything will go to buy this guy and his care/lifestyle.

If this is wrong for the forums (against ToS I will remove the link post haste.)

If say info get donations but they won't come down on price or he is somehow sold before I could purchase him I will issue a refund of the funds to all donators.

Thank you to all who voiced their opinion and concerns. It may seem like I am ignoring one side but honestly I had to really sit and rethink this whole thing, and until the idea was brought up to pursue via his results and info on his miscarriage via photos as well and possibly video I was going to give up on the idea of rescue.

Again thanks for taking the time to read and interact all.

 

[D4saken1]

If you can get the authorities to do something about it then go for it. I would research your state laws on animal neglect.

I actually called my local and just over state line since he is technically on the state of Idaho by a smidge vs Washington. They have the same laws and the people I talked to said the same concerns but also voiced that they could pursue with proper evidence since they lack the members who are educated enough to assess the situation for reptiles.

Edit:

They flat out told me they don't really have any experts on the issues and unless they appear bloody or imaciated there isn't much they would or could do. Since they cannot take the animal test it and risk being wrong and giving it back losing money and opening a bad channel for the owner to come back at them.

 

[Kristen Wilkins]

Hi here , We are new keeper to chamealons . We have one little girl veiled around 8 months , and our baby boy Panther will probably be arriving this week from @Matt Vanilla Gorilla .

Frances is our little girl she came from petsmart . We got her July 20th , we knew the risks of getting her . Also that they would absolutely have another in a day or 2 . We did not care we could not leave her there . She has had lots of health issues lots of vet visits and lots of meds . We would not have it any other way . She's just beautiful and if she only lived a month or 7 years she would be cared for . I'm not telling you either way do it or don't . Really what I'm saying is your likely to have bills vet bills we have thousands in her . Please don't take this anyway but think about it make sure financially you can do what's needed for the chamealon. Best of luck .

 

[OldChamKeeper]

Short answer : no.

I ran pet shops. I know the biz. Our reputation kept us going, the quality of our animals and the info provided on their care kept us afloat. You buying that animal at full price only lets them stay afloat.

Sometimes the best way to save animals is to let the bad places go under. People forget that when they see that one animal they hope they can save. So you save that one animal, what about the others that will surely follow?

Always a hard choice, but I pass on buying animals I could rescue only since I know the business will benefit from my work and other replacement animals will be purchased only to share the same fate of the animal I tried to rescue.

 

[nick barta]

If you need to raise money to buy him at that absurd price for a sick and dying chameleon, how will you rescue him when vet bills will hit several hundred dollars easily?
Surely I do not want to be harsh, but you are not in a financial position, or a knowledge position to rescue him.

Nick Barta

 

[Michelle Maxwell]

I actually called my local and just over state line since he is technically on the state of Idaho by a smidge vs Washington. They have the same laws and the people I talked to said the same concerns but also voiced that they could pursue with proper evidence since they lack the members who are educated enough to assess the situation for reptiles.

Edit:

They flat out told me they don't really have any experts on the issues and unless they appear bloody or imaciated there isn't much they would or could do. Since they cannot take the animal test it and risk being wrong and giving it back losing money and opening a bad channel for the owner to come back at them.

Hey I had to stop reading and post here right quick I'm from Idaho and know someone that will and can shut them down I'm going to give them a call tonight and will get back to you if you give me store name and location to give them so they can go have a look I would appreciate it

 

[Decadancin]

Hey I had to stop reading and post here right quick I'm from Idaho and know someone that will and can shut them down I'm going to give them a call tonight and will get back to you if you give me store name and location to give them so they can go have a look I would appreciate it

Please do so in a private message so we are not breaking any forum rules or creating any other issues. Thanks.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Hey I had to stop reading and post here right quick I'm from Idaho and know someone that will and can shut them down I'm going to give them a call tonight and will get back to you if you give me store name and location to give them so they can go have a look I would appreciate it

Really? For having a reptile for sale that isn't doing well? That's a bit of an over reach.

 

[Angelwolf]

490$ buys me 3 panthers where I'm from ...

I would not do the purchase, for that 490$ they will likely make several other reptiles suffer...

He's a beauty tho!

I am curious, where do you get your panthers from? Especially for less than $300 each?