EXO terra

[RcManChild]

So this is my plan I hope to get some drawings to make it make sense

cage size 36x18x36

floor will be 2-3" of bio balls
2" of organic soil with carbon mixed in.

i'm gonna use acrylic to make something similiar to dragon ledges.
use ESC fans x 4 to blow air into the enclosure for 2-3 mins every hour... this will be done with an Arduino....
Use 2x computer fans to pull air out of enclosure...

I am gonna make a waterfall within the cage... I know this is advised against, between the organic filtration and the different microorganisms and mechanical filtration I think I will be sufficient.

Any advice is welcomed..

Keep in mind the waterfall will not be enclosed and will act as an entire eco system..

 

[MelissaB]

What species of animal are you planning on keeping? I don't know if the biological filtration would be enough to clean waste from the waterfall. Also, I'm not sure that the waterfall would be adequate for eye washing, like misting would be. I've never set a tank up with a waterfall system, so I'm not sure how well they'd work out.
I use bioactive substrate and exo terras for my leaf tailed geckos and pygmy chameleons, but I use misters for water and humidity.

 

[RcManChild]

It is a panther chameleon.

I will still use a mister 2x a day.

I am gonna put some organisms in the soul to eat the poop, and dead foliage.

Basically the poop will not be sitting in the water. Neither will dead crickets.

 

[MelissaB]

I don't know how well the bacteria load will be managed. Just something to think about. The filters only catch the particles, the bacteria will still be in the water. You don'y want your chameleon drinking poop soup.

 

[RcManChild]

Yeah... not too sure about the bacteria load either. Hoping someone who has done this can reply

 

[Virgil1972]

Your cham would most likely get sick at some point. He would dirty the water at some point and then be drinking the dirty water.

 

[Nursemaia]

I think the cage size is too small for a panther

 

[RcManChild]

36 wide x 18 deep x 36 tall??? isnt big enough for a panther?

 

[Nursemaia]

36 wide x 18 deep x 36 tall??? isnt big enough for a panther?

No it should be 24x24x48

 

[RcManChild]

Why do you say that?

 

[Nursemaia]

It's in the caresheets.

 

[Peachypink]

No it should be 24x24x48

Actually, the one he is talking about is a little bigger than the medium atrium Dragon Strand cage that Bill markets as being fine for an adult Panther. I believe because it has the with and decent height it is fine for an adult. If it was 18 deep and 18 wide then I would say no.

 

[RcManChild]

No it should be 24x24x48

I respectfully have to disagree with you.
I have done my research over the size of the cage, if all you are going off of is the care sheet then I ask you to do the math.

24x24x48 comes to 27648
36x18x36 comes to 23328

The difference between the two is 4320. Which is basically two square feet, so you are not really loosing a whole lot of room.
Secondly the 24x24x48 is recommended to allow the chameleon to have temperature gradients and humidity gradients. This is easier for most to setup. Because this tank is 36" wide this I believe will be much easier in a 36" wide tank, one side can have heat the other side will not.

For anyone out there worried about this setup other than the OP this tank will be setup and running long before the chameleon get put in there (2-3 months) to ensure that everything is working the way I want it to. I am going to watch the air flow, monitor the humidity, monitor the temperature.

I am still skeptical about the water fall which is why I have not done this yet. I am hoping someone who has tried this in a true vivarium can help me out here....

 

[Virgil1972]

The 24x24x48 cage is the recommended minimum for an adult male panther. The cham will grow to about 15 to 20 inches with a male being closer to the 20 in a cage with a depth of 18 inches. I personally keep my veiled in a 30x30x72.

 

[acarrera]

The Kammers recommend their "forever cage" with the dimensions of 30” high x 16” deep x 24” wide for adult Panther. And if you into McMasions, their "Panther Palace," with the dimensions of 40” high x 18” deep x 34” wide, is for you .

 

[ZacharyLeesWife]

This is a smaller glass tank but i think its close. I have bioalls and charcoal pellets underneath the soil which has isopods and springtails, I have a crested living happily in there but only because I change the water 2-3 times a week. I let the tube for the waterfall pump the water out until it's running dry, then shut off the pump and refill it with clean treated water. I'll post a pic of the water after I take it out tomorrow, after 2 days I promise you it's too dirty for anything to drink. It's possible, but only if you have the time to spend cleaning the water very, very often.

 

[RcManChild]

Interesting, I do not want to have to change the water more than once a week...
So by the looks of it, hydro balls and carbon in the soil is not enough.. I am quite determined to accomplish this...

I am curious do you have a screen between the soil and hydro balls?

Has anyone tried building a sump like you would for an aquarium?
So basically the water would drain into a reservoir then filter like a aquarium would then go back into the tank?

 

[ZacharyLeesWife]

Interesting, I do not want to have to change the water more than once a week...
So by the looks of it, hydro balls and carbon in the soil is not enough.. I am quite determined to accomplish this...

I am curious do you have a screen between the soil and hydro balls?

Has anyone tried building a sump like you would for an aquarium?
So basically the water would drain into a reservoir then filter like a aquarium would then go back into the tank?

Screen wasn't enough to keep debris from clogging the pump, even fine mesh. I wound up using fabric. It's the same type that you would use in a garden to prevent weeds, but I'm not sure what it's called. A reservoir cleaning system is a great idea, but the volume of water in the tank that the pump actually removes is smaller than you would think because so much is absorbed into the soil, it works like a wick. I ran the tank planted and populated with cleaning crew for a month changing the water a few times a week hoping that the reason that the water wasn't staying clear was just the color leaching from to coco fiber layer and eventually it would be rinsed out but it never did. I can put clean water in right now, and by morning it's yellow. Keeping up with it is a chore, I'm considering removing it after months of building and tweaking. The strange thing is that I have a 55 long viv with a waterfall and several inch deep pond and I can keep the water in it crystal clear with the same substrate and cleaners. I think that the waterfall is basically rinsing the dirt constantly because of the circular nature of the cycle. This is the 55-

 

[Goose502]

So I have to chime in here...
I currently use that exact cage for a panther, and I love it! Most of the screen cage opinions are simply that, opinions. The cage is adequate size, will maintain humidity and temp way better than a screen cage, and actually provides more than adequate ventilation. I recommend listening to last weeks chameleon podcast, Bill interviews Dr. Chris Anderson on this subject. If glass if good enough for the doctor, it's more than good enough for me. I've restrained from adding a computer fan, I've learned it's not needed. I also tried setting up a nice waterfall when I began construction. It was an epic fail. In fact, the expensive pump I used is just buried under my substrate still (too much work to take it out). I don't recommend the waterfall. It will look really nice, but it will not have proper filtration, and will fail. I plan on building a tank myself later, using acrylic that I can drill bulkheads in to provide proper filtration system from canister filters. I use bio active substrate, and have had zero issues going on a year now. The tank has never developed a bad odor, nor has my Cham gotten a respiratory infection. I recommend saving your money on the waterfall, and purchasing good misters. With proper planting, you will never have issues with water.

 

[ZacharyLeesWife]

So I have to chime in here...
I currently use that exact cage for a panther, and I love it! Most of the screen cage opinions are simply that, opinions. The cage is adequate size, will maintain humidity and temp way better than a screen cage, and actually provides more than adequate ventilation. I recommend listening to last weeks chameleon podcast, Bill interviews Dr. Chris Anderson on this subject. If glass if good enough for the doctor, it's more than good enough for me. I've restrained from adding a computer fan, I've learned it's not needed. I also tried setting up a nice waterfall when I began construction. It was an epic fail. In fact, the expensive pump I used is just buried under my substrate still (too much work to take it out). I don't recommend the waterfall. It will look really nice, but it will not have proper filtration, and will fail. I plan on building a tank myself later, using acrylic that I can drill bulkheads in to provide proper filtration system from canister filters. I use bio active substrate, and have had zero issues going on a year now. The tank has never developed a bad odor, nor has my Cham gotten a respiratory infection. I recommend saving your money on the waterfall, and purchasing good misters. With proper planting, you will never have issues with water.

I have to agree, the waterfall is a real pain. Mine is functioning fine, but I just don't think you'll find a way to keep decent water quality short of replacing it constantly. I am not jumping into the screen vs glass issue with chams because mine is housing a gecko. I was just telling you the problems you'll run into. They're manageable with a ton of effort, but it is a lot of work to keep it a drinkable water source.