Facebook Groups Make Me ANGRY!!!

[SharpShooter]

It's really very problematic how people claim to take 'offense' these days. Certainly nothing to apologise for. Had you mistakenly given wrong info then yes, but if someone CHOOSES to take offense, then that's their problem, not yours. From what I read there was nothing to cause genuine offense to anyone, just a different opinion.

 

[JoXie411]

I honestly did not mean to cause any drama. I simply felt my argument was worth making. I am one to admit when I'm wrong and apologize. I apologize for calling this person out. And I apologize to anyone a may offend. I simply wanted to keep the conversation going as Peter Necas and Bill Strand have preached to us. I was temp banned from other chameleon groups for suggesting Calcium Plus LoD to a member whom was confused about dusting regiment/schedule. I find it arrogant and ignorant for doing something like that. Or making a rule either spoken or unspoken that someone can not request a new keeper fill out a questionnaire that involves the same very questions anyone else may ask. I apologize to Brad if I caused any uproar I just haven't heard about yet either. People here that know me know that I love my animals. I love all animals (just not spiders or snakes that aren't boas or pythons lol). And I love this community. Where I can be free to express my opinions in a safe and open format. For that I am truly truly grateful.

No need to really apologize we all know you love these animals. Never apologize for trying to help someone who was unwilling to learn. If the first cave man didn’t show the rest of men fire where would we be today?

 

[CamoChameleonsHuman]

No need to really apologize we all know you love these animals. Never apologize for trying to help someone who was unwilling to learn. If the first cave man didn’t show the rest of men fire where would we be today?

We definitely wouldn't have no T5s that's for sure lol.

It's really very problematic how people claim to take 'offense' these days. Certainly nothing to apologise for. Had you mistakenly given wrong info then yes, but if someone CHOOSES to take offense, then that's their problem, not yours. From what I read there was nothing to cause genuine offense to anyone, just a different opinion.

Thank you. But I do feel bad if I hurt the community here or there in any way shape or form. I feel I didn't and was respectful (to a certain extent) my ambition always outweighs my message.

 

[JoXie411]

We definitely wouldn't have no T5s that's for sure lol.

Definitely wouldn’t have them

 

[Rst_Cham]

I honestly did not mean to cause any drama. I simply felt my argument was worth making. I am one to admit when I'm wrong and apologize. I apologize for calling this person out. And I apologize to anyone a may offend. I simply wanted to keep the conversation going as Peter Necas and Bill Strand have preached to us. I was temp banned from other chameleon groups for suggesting Calcium Plus LoD to a member whom was confused about dusting regiment/schedule. I find it arrogant and ignorant for doing something like that. Or making a rule either spoken or unspoken that someone can not request a new keeper fill out a questionnaire that involves the same very questions anyone else may ask. I apologize to Brad if I caused any uproar I just haven't heard about yet either. People here that know me know that I love my animals. I love all animals (just not spiders or snakes that aren't boas or pythons lol). And I love this community. Where I can be free to express my opinions in a safe and open format. For that I am truly truly grateful.

I hope you know how invaluable you are here. I'm sorry you had such a terrible experience on the FB group. This is your home anyhow!

 

[Syreptyon]

Saying that the form isn't important because it doesn't exclusively address the one specific question people are asking about is honestly ridiculous to me.

The way I see it, if there's one thing wrong that led to something problematic enough that you have to post to a chameleon group for help, then there are probably other things wrong, too! Problems don't exist in a vacuum. Any combination of any of the husbandry elements in the form could combine together in a nasty way to cause one health risk or another.

And "just ask questions" is a totally disorganized way to go about it. Especially in a facebook thread, which is way less easy to use than a dedicated forum like this. If one person asks a single question at a time, it gets really crazy to keep track of everything, really fast. Not to mention, then other people will chime in to agree or disagree, leading to a mess of confusing opinions. Putting all potentially relevant information in one place is really not asking a lot. It almost always leads to additional pointers that will be useful and may even save chameleons' lives -- but if we only ask about the eyes or fecal history of the cham, then we may entirely miss the fact that it's being kept in a fish tank.

I may be a curmudgeonly cynic, but I also don't trust people to be totally honest, especially if they know their husbandry isn't perfect. The potential for being judged by as passionate a community as ours is scary, so I think a prescribed set of specific required information is beyond useful. If it's on the form, they can't conveniently leave anything out.

 

[zedron]

The FB groupsv are just as bad as the BOI on the Fauna classifieds. Select group in their clique ganging up on anyone who disagrees with one of those"elite" members.

 

[JacksJill]

I thought Fauna Classifieds was doing away with the BOI. Did they change their mind?

 

[Syreptyon]

I thought Fauna Classifieds was doing away with the BOI. Did they change their mind?

I just checked and it says it's being removed in 2020 lol

 

[JacksJill]

It's too bad it's a useful tool but I wouldn't want the liability for it either.
Cool that it will be down by the time I'm willing to start selling chameleons. Then I can do what ever I want *laughs maniacally*

 

[zedron]

It's only available to paid members as of earlier this year.

 

[krikinit]

Who was this?????

Some random dude who asked for help, didnt like what he heard and placed a curse on all our children and children's children!

 

[JacksJill]

That makes it rather useless to the people that truly need it. First time buyers aren't going to have access.

 

[krikinit]

We definitely wouldn't have no T5s that's for sure lol.

Thank you. But I do feel bad if I hurt the community here or there in any way shape or form. I feel I didn't and was respectful (to a certain extent) my ambition always outweighs my message.

Passion is what drives us all. Youre all good here. Without passion, nothing would change. You want a change for the better. Its all gravy!

 

[krikinit]

The brick of truth has been passed from @Beman to @CamoChameleonsHuman! May you use its power wisely to knock some sense into people!

 

[PetNcs]

Gotta disagree a little with you here my friend, misting is no more unnatural than ultrasonic foggers. Just because chams aren't regularly misted in the wild doesn't mean it doesn't benefit them. I don't know of anyone that has killed a cham with misting, even if the cham doesn't like it, which IME most do once they realize it's just water. I look at it as, the chance of RI with a fogger is so much higher than a mister causing physical harm. Plenty of unnatural things extend our lifespans and plenty of natural things kill us.

Not to say I have a problem with foggers, but idk if they should be the first go-to.

Where doea your statement a out higher risk of RI from fogger? It is absolutely contradicting the evidence I have conditikned yiu use the fogger ag night and at kiw temoeratures under 20’C

 

[JoXie411]

Who was this?????

You don’t remember. I’m almost sure you were there

 

[PetNcs]

That is the problem with not having background information beforehand all situations are different.
While I agree with Petr on many points I don't agree with his limiting access to water. In nature many chameleon species don't have constant access but I can't agree that access will harm them if it doesn't take the humidity out of normal levels. Horses in the wild may only drink once a day but I'm not going to restrict my horse to that in captivity and risk colic, nor will I limit my dogs access to water.

Tell me where you got the ANSOLUTE NONSENCE citting me to “limittinb access tk water!” Itnis a lie, I never state anything like that! It is unfair and wrong to put the words J have never said to my mouth! I PROTEST and ask yiu take your statement baxk because it is FALSE.
I never limit the access to water tk chameleons and never advice like that, on contrary I preach PROPER HYDRATION based on extensive field research and 33+ years keeping and breeding experience!!!

 

[Kristen Wilkins]

I just wanted say when you join a group you abide by the group rules. I am just an admin. I abide by the same rules. I simply advised that we don't use the questionnaire in that group and I was hit with multiple responses from CamoChameleonsHuman here, on the post and private message. Then another member posted multiple times about why we don't use the questionnaire. I turned off commenting because it completely took away from the original poster asking for help and the issues. There was nothing educational in that post after he was helped. It all turned into a war regarding the form. I am also being blasted in private message all day about this questionnaire from CamoChameleonsHuman who continually taunts me to kick him out of the group. I will make it publicly known that I am not kicking him out of the group. One, he probably can add some knowledge to the group and two, he is taunting me so he can blast again that I kicked him out and play the victim once again.
The reason the form is not used is because many of the questions don't pertain to the advice seekers questions. Just ask questions. If you cham has mucus in his throat we don't need to know what you feed him or when he pooped last or how big his enclosure is. We can be more specific to the symptoms. And yes you are right about one thing. The questionnaire is completed when you go to the vet. We are not vets so there is no need for 30 questions. The members in the group are extremely experienced. The majority are breeders and veterans who have been around chams since the 90's. They know a thing or two. We are not the average group. Do we know it all no we don't! And we don't pretend that we do. I didn't start a war. I made a simple statement about the rules. I didn't call anyone out, I didn't try to degrade anyone, I didn't blast them publicly. But did I get the same respect? No I didn't.

@nrnbow24 not using a questionnaire form is irresponsible plan and simple . No we are not vets with that said one can not have the whole picture from a picture. There is likely to be 30 questions asked anyhow by 100 keepers . It’s responsible to have a questionnaire filled out provided by the group or forum . All 30 questions may not pertain . A good amount will or they would not have a sick Chameleon .

Mucus in the throat - What’s the history of the chameleon, how is it kept , temps , lighting , supplement , how long have you had this chameleon is all ask on a Questionnaire forum . Personally I have witnessed with my own another odd issue that Ultimately lead to mucus .

@CamoChameleonsHuman is not only found In his frustration is A huge resource to chameleon care . It’s not a could have been a resource he is a resource that you have now lost !!.

 

[Kristen Wilkins]

I honestly did not mean to cause any drama. I simply felt my argument was worth making. I am one to admit when I'm wrong and apologize. I apologize for calling this person out. And I apologize to anyone a may offend. I simply wanted to keep the conversation going as Peter Necas and Bill Strand have preached to us. I was temp banned from other chameleon groups for suggesting Calcium Plus LoD to a member whom was confused about dusting regiment/schedule. I find it arrogant and ignorant for doing something like that. Or making a rule either spoken or unspoken that someone can not request a new keeper fill out a questionnaire that involves the same very questions anyone else may ask. I apologize to Brad if I caused any uproar I just haven't heard about yet either. People here that know me know that I love my animals. I love all animals (just not spiders or snakes that aren't boas or pythons lol). And I love this community. Where I can be free to express my opinions in a safe and open format. For that I am truly truly grateful.

You have absolutely nothing to apologize for . Your frustration is founded .