Female Veil not feeling well HELP!?

[nesie]

PLEASE HELP ME!

My female was given to me in January 2012, her name is PAscal. In august she started acting funny and ver lethargic started digging so i hurried and made her a deep humid bucket for her to lay eggs. She did but now being that its november, again she's lethargic. Shes acting funny,
- coordination is off
-weak and wont climb ( or shes hanging loosely from a branch)
- she looks super relaxed at bottom of cage
- shes cold to the touch
- her color is pretty green with blue and yellow
- i put crickets in there, they're gone so i am assuming she ate

Btw my husband built her a large enclosure we have heat bulbs and her uv. Lots of branches and two small LIVE ferns at the bottom for circulation.
Her diet-
-calcium crickets
- cilantro (loves this most of all)
-minty leaves
- (giant) ugly worms

WE love our pascal, im so worried..
Today i dipped her partially in warm water in which she relaxed even more but it warmed her body a bit..
I dont know what to do..please help.

 

[CaptainMorgantown]

Could you fill this out please?





Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.


Pictures are helpful

 

[nesie]

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Veiled Chameleon, Female- ive had her for about 11 months
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? prolly once every two weeks, mainly to move her out the way to clean enclosure
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? Calcium crickets, worms, mint leaves, cilantro. What amount?about 7 crickets daily. What is the schedule? shes lazy so her UV comes on about 11 am, turns off at 9 pm with red glow How are you gut-loading your feeders? veggies, oranges, oatmeal
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule? not sure what brand, i dust them twice a week.
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? i have a mister, with only spring water to be mist inside. How often and how long to you mist? i mist every time i see enclosure, a lil at a time to keep humidity. Do you see your chameleon drinking? not for the past 3 days. She usually drinks off leaves or comes to the mister for a drink. ( today i waited for her to open her mouth so i can spray some in there)
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Normal, brown hard some yellow and white.
Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? no
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
- She has laid eggs in august, her first batch. Her coloring is a lime green with blue a few yellow spots. She has been lethargic before and it was previous to laying eggs.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions? Combo, Plexi glass and screen. 24w X 18 deep X 36length
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule? Reptile combo lighting, UV on at 11 am, off at 9 pm on basking
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)?84 up high, low 70's low. Lowest overnight temp? 70, How do you measure these temps? I have a the lil temp gauges inside
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? 70-80% humid
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? YEs, Two small Ferns at the bottom
Placement - Where is your cage located? Living room. Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? no, none. Its just my husband and i living here she doesnt get bothered much. At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? n/a
Location - Where are you geographically located? Texas

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.
She is super lethargic, im not sure if shes going to lay another batch soon or what but we are worried.
Shes been this way for about 3 days now. i havent seen her drink so ive been waiting to spray a gulp of water down when she parts her mouth. She stays at bottom of enclosure. Shes weak she doesnt grasp the branches correct, she slips alot. We're afraid she will fall. Her body is cold to the touch. Her color looks normal, lime green with blue and yellow spots. Her belly looks round not sure if thats bc the crickets i put in there disappeared and are in the belly but they arent alive and roaming enclosure so im assuming she ate. Her feet as of right now are dangling from a branch as if shes relaxed. Not really hanging on tight. I recently held her and put her in a lil topoware with warm water which she relaxed even more..
ARe these signs of batch laying again? or is she sick sick

 

[nesie]

heres a picture of now as of 11/11/2012- 11.43pm

a picture of Pascal as of now

 

[Sohumvet]

It looks like her front legs are swollen in the pictures. That along with her weakness lead me to believe she may have MBD. You need to get her to a reptile vet tomorrow. I'm not sure on your lighting as your response was vague on that issue but you should change out your UVB light every 6 months plus vitamin, calcium, d3 supplementation is critical.

 

[DavidBuchan]

Hello, welcome to the forum She looks very bright and pretty in the photo What are 'calcium crickets'? Most people on here use a plain calcium powder everyday, one that has D3 twice a month, and a twice monthly multivit as well. The uvb light is usually a tubular 5.0 one. No light is needed at night (unless night time temps are below 60F). Chams have a parietal eye so even if she looks asleep the red light could be disturbing her. Here is a great all-round caresheet for Veileds that I recommend to all new people - https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/chameleonsinmyhouse/395-veiled-chameleon-care-sheet.html

It does sound like she is sick to me so I think a vet visit is in order as well.

 

[nesie]

Awh..

Awh.. thank you for replying.

it's 7:47 am and I just checked her she's at the very bottom of enclosure curled up.. she's asleep peacefully but I don't like her at the bottom...

 

[camimom]

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Veiled Chameleon, Female- ive had her for about 11 months
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? prolly once every two weeks, mainly to move her out the way to clean enclosure
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? Calcium crickets, worms, mint leaves, cilantro. What amount?about 7 crickets daily. What is the schedule? You are over feeding her. She should be getting this amount of bugs every other day, to every two days. shes lazy so her UV comes on about 11 am, turns off at 9 pm with red glow No red bulb. temps can drop to 50s at night and she will be fine. How are you gut-loading your feeders? veggies, oranges, oatmeal
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule? not sure what brand, i dust them twice a week.we need to know what kind this is. you should be using a calcium without d3 for every feeding,a calcium iwth d3 twice a month, and a multivitamin twice a month.
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? i have a mister, with only spring water to be mist inside. How often and how long to you mist? i mist every time i see enclosure, a lil at a time to keep humidity. Do you see your chameleon drinking? not for the past 3 days. She usually drinks off leaves or comes to the mister for a drink. ( today i waited for her to open her mouth so i can spray some in there) dont spray in her mouth. she can aspirate it.
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Normal, brown hard some yellow and white. the yellow means she is dehydrated. she needs to be misted every 2 hours for at least 30 seconds at a time.
Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? no
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
- She has laid eggs in august, her first batch. Her coloring is a lime green with blue a few yellow spots. She has been lethargic before and it was previous to laying eggs. do you still have have the lay bin in with her? shes very round, which is probably because of eggs again.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions? Combo, Plexi glass and screen. 24w X 18 deep X 36length
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule? Reptile combo lighting, UV on at 11 am, off at 9 pm on basking can we see a pic of the bulb box please? I dont think ou are using the right bulb. most of us use a regular house bulb, for basking, and a reptiglo or reptisun for uvb.
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)?84 up high, low 70's low. Lowest overnight temp? 70, How do you measure these temps? I have a the lil temp gauges inside
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? 70-80% humid
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? YEs, Two small Ferns at the bottom what is at the top of her cage?
Placement - Where is your cage located? Living room. Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? no, none. Its just my husband and i living here she doesnt get bothered much. At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? n/a
Location - Where are you geographically located? Texas

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.
She is super lethargic, im not sure if shes going to lay another batch soon or what but we are worried.
Shes been this way for about 3 days now. i havent seen her drink so ive been waiting to spray a gulp of water down when she parts her mouth. She stays at bottom of enclosure. Shes weak she doesnt grasp the branches correct, she slips alot. We're afraid she will fall. Her body is cold to the touch. Her color looks normal, lime green with blue and yellow spots. Her belly looks round not sure if thats bc the crickets i put in there disappeared and are in the belly but they arent alive and roaming enclosure so im assuming she ate. Her feet as of right now are dangling from a branch as if shes relaxed. Not really hanging on tight. I recently held her and put her in a lil topoware with warm water which she relaxed even more..
ARe these signs of batch laying again? or is she sick sick

corrections are in red.

chams should not dangle feet on a regular basis.
from your pictures, i think she may have gout, MBD, or something that just isnt right.,
can you take more photos of her please from the sides.
also get photos of her enclosure.

lethargy and weakness is a sign of egg binding.

i think its time for a vet visit.

 

[nesie]

more pictures

pictures of pascal today 11/12
she was curled at the bottom of enclosure all morning, i just moved her up towards the heat because so was cold to the touch

 

[nesie]

One more of pascal

this is after i moved her from the bottom floor for heat

 

[DavidBuchan]

Wow, she looks even chunkier in the new photos. Definite diet time (get her down to half of what she's eating, but do it over a couple of weeks). Her front leg looks really bad in the first of the new pics, is it that awkward looking in real life?

 

[Decadancin]

Both the front and back legs do not look right to me. I wasn't sure from the first pic, but now I am concerned. Have you gone to the vet? I do not think this is as simple as eggs. The swelling in the front legs and the spending time at the bottom and pretty drastic change in her normal routine are reason enough for an emergency visit. As for her enclosure, 70% humidity may be a bit high. This can lead to respiratory issues. Also, does she eat the ferns that you have in the cage? Not sure if they are cham safe. Temps seem O.K., but it sounds like you are using a red night light. As David mentioned, this is not needed, and not recommended. You said a UV light, but it is not clear if you are using a UVB light. You must have a UVB light and a basking light. You could put a bin for egg laying, but I don't think this will help, especially if she can't climb to the top on her own. Let us know what you do, and good luck!

 

[nesie]

I remember her doing this before she laid eggs the last time.She did this odd behavior i waited untill she began digging then moved her over to deep bucket to lay. She hasnt eaten today at all. I just offered her cilantro. nothing..
Ill try and find a vet soon.
Reptile vets arent common in my area.
Ill post a picture of her on the bottom in a bit..
She cant be fat fat she hasnt eaten..

 

[nesie]

9.21pm

She didnt fall. I know for sure..She looks broken but she crawls around normal then spreads her back legs out like this

 

[Elizadolots]

I would try her in the laying bin.

You should read Kinyongia's blog post on keeping females. Cutting back on food and heat can help reduce the frequency and size of egg clutches.

http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/2007/12/keeping-female-veiled.html

 

[CaptainMorgantown]

That is MBD (metabolic bone disease). Although you need to find a reptile vet ASAP, you need to make the proper corrections right now. A previous post wrote out all of the corrections that you need to make in red. If you want her to live and not be deformed, you have to change some things now. Where do you live? There are several websites that you can type in your zip code, and it will show you several herp vets in your area. I do not have the links right now, but perhaps another member will post them.

Good luck and keep us updated

 

[camimom]

She is absolutely overweight, and she does indeed have MBD.

egg laying is hard on any female, much less one with mbd. digging can break her legs (more so than they already are)

you NEED a vet, to get calcium injections, and to help with egg laying.

 

[RadioactiveRob]

MBD you can see it, i hope she gets better!

 

[Lathelia]

As others have said: Vet! Now!

 

[nesie]

at vet

poor pascal... I found a reptile vet and she is not feeling good. Her nickname is " T-Rex " for a reason.
she doesn't even put up a fight when held now