Chrissie 88
New Member
Awww thanks !! He's doing just fine bless u , nope nothing wrong with his set up xx
He's looking good day 3
- Thread starter Chrissie 88
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Big Gulp
Established Member
This means absolutely nothing.
You need to give him time to adjust to his new HOME and SURROUNDINGS.
Remkon
Chameleon Enthusiast
Netherlands here, cold too, all mesh for me.
I don't live in a tent so the coldest part of the enclosure is room temperature ~21c and that's just fine since the rest of the cage gets heat from the lamp.
At night the temperature in the house drops to ~19C but I try to cool down my chameleons room to ~15 C.
I think you don't get the point.
I am from the Netherlands and glass enclosures are way more populair than cages here too... Most glass terrariums only offer ventilation trough a 5cm wide strip from the tip over the width of the terrarium, in some cases also a 2cm high strip at the front under the doors. Both are welk suited for a lot of reptiles' but not recommended or suitable for those that require more ventilation or humidity.
Chameleons have a higher demand for ventilation.
While your ET terrarium has a full screen top and ventilation from the front under the doors OP's enclosure has only 2small vents at the top and I can't see anything at the bottom. Comparing your ET to this enclosure is like comparing a cabriolet with the top down to a roofed car with the windows closed.
Stale air from insufficient airflow and moisture is not a good combination as it will cause moulding and RI.
Also, you may think the screen enclosures are 'fugly' but this mostly is because they are decorated primarily for the chameleon's needs and secondarily for our own viewing pleasure...
In my years of keeping various reptiles I have had normal glass enclosures, screen top glass enclosures, wooden enclosures and I now use screen enclosures for my chameleons. I use a glass enclosure for my ackie.
I think I do have an idea of what I'm talking about.
Good luck with your baby panthers, they are wonderful animals!
Chrissie 88
New Member
If u say so lol
Kristen Wilkins
Chameleon Enthusiast
@Chrissie 88 im wondering why you have come to this sight ? Is it to gain knowledge ? Or is it to fight with very experienced keepers ? yes this is an open forum !!. there's amazing keepers here that have years and years of experience . Please take some advice !!.
Yes there's many different ways of keeping your chameleon . I'm a new keeper to chamealon not lizards but chamealon and I can tell you first hand there is more issues with glass then Mesh !!. . There's also keepers that only use glass . I'm not saying your breeder is right or wrong but not all breeders are equal !!. There's also exceptional breeders on here . Maybe get some thoughts from them . Please don't take this as rude by any means I'm just saying there's many ways of keeping chamealons your on an amazing Forum with truly amazing keepers that have had beyound what you can imagine for experience . Good luck with your new baby .
Chrissie 88
New Member
I was wondering the same as all I have had is abuse ! Hense why Matt sent me an apology email this morning. I have no interest in speaking to small minded pll
Kristen Wilkins
Chameleon Enthusiast
I'm very sorry you have experience or feel you are being abused . Keepers are very Passionate here for sure . I'm a new keeper as I said so I'm not going to even try to advise anything . You could very well have more experience than I . If you wish Though chatt with a few other members here's some other member that are very very experience . @alphakenc , @Matt Vanilla Gorilla both breed have years of experience . @jajeanpierre want to talk about knowledge she also breeds, she will blow your mind be ready !!. @jannb rescues , tons of knowledge , @Nursemaia AMAZING she will not sweet talk you though lol
, @Andee , very experience !!. any how I can go on and on but those are a few as well as @WAMBO , and @Replife . best of Luck .
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There is definitely no problem with glass cages. I have one because where I am also is very cold in the winter. I take him out daily in the summer for a lot of air flow and fresh air. I'm the winter he spends an hour out of his cage with proper supervision. As long as he has some outside time he will be perfectly fine. Although if you decide to take him outside make sure he doesn't eat anything he shouldn't. Best of luck
Kristen Wilkins
Chameleon Enthusiast
Where are you located ?
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I'm in Maryland. Although my family likes the house around 60 DEGREES. I have a humidifier in my room for when I take him out.
Kristen Wilkins
Chameleon Enthusiast
I was wondering if you may be in the U.K. Seems that they use glass over there more then not . I'm in mass it's crazy weather her last week 5 out with 2 feet of snow to 60 back to 20
. Frances started out in a glass exo tera . I don't have other experience then with Frances we had 2 RI and eye issues but also she did not come from a a Reparable Breeder . She's also a veiled . She's doing wonderful now I got so much wonderful help here . Our new baby is coming as soon as weather permits from @Matt Vanilla Gorilla . He handles from day one and has been amazing with care sheets answered every question he's just Amazing . Also lots of advice from @Nursemaia , and @Remkon there fantastic . That's my rant I have I'll be quiet now lol .All usernames were taken
New Member
I just got a new baby veiled a week ago and he is very happy and healthy with the routine. He definitely warmed up to the new people quickly and enjoys being petted by me. So far he has tried to bite everyone else. It's quite funny since he is so small right now but I'm trying to socialize him more. Good luck with the weather and hopefully your Cham is a little better than mine toward new people lol.I was wondering if you may be in the U.K. Seems that they use glass over there more then not . I'm in mass it's crazy weather her last week 5 out with 2 feet of snow to 60 back to 20
Kristen Wilkins
Chameleon Enthusiast
Frances was fantastic with ppl but she's getting ready to lay her first Clutch and has not been free ranging they get non social very fast . It does not matter though we love her to peaces .
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Yea my Cham Delta is just not good with people that aren't me
jajeanpierre
Chameleon Enthusiast
This is how I feel when I read a post like yours above:
Why do I bother?
What a colossal waste of my time trying to help anyone. I may help one person and then ten of you show up--arrogant in their belief they know all but ignorant of what they don't know and what they need to know. [And before you go ballistic suggesting I insulted you, I suggest you look up the definition of the word because I am sick and tired of having to change my perfectly correct use of the English language in order to not offend the many people on these internet forums who have a Grade 3 level vocabulary and are too lazy to expand their vocabulary. Here's the definition--Ignorant: lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated.]
It is one thing to question standard practices to find out the why behind how something is done but quite another to completely dismiss standard practices, citing only a solitary breeder who you believe in.
I am about to spend a lot of time writing and explaining some things to you knowing--this is the part that really gets me--knowing you will most likely just insult me as you have insulted others. But I do it to try to reach someone else here, so here I go.
Okay, here's the deal with chameleons. They are not social. They don't nurture their young. They do not form pair bonds. They are extremely territorial. There is nothing about their mating ritual that suggests the development of any sort of bond. They will not form an emotional attachment to anything, let alone a predator such as a human. That is their biology--you cannot change the inherent nature of the animal.
Next to know, chameleons rely on being unnoticed by predators to avoid predation. They do not have a well developed "fight or flight" response. Their fleeing behavior tends to be dodging around branches or dropping to the ground and laying still for a bit. Their fighting (of a predator) involves inflating their lungs to appear bigger, gaping, lunging and possibly biting. I am always surprised at how rarely a gaping terrified wild caught will actually risk contact with a predator (me) by biting.
Having worked with many animals that were imported as wild caught adults, I can assure you that few actually exhibit any "fight or flight" behaviors. They often look quite tame and docile. For example, I recently took a young, recently imported wild caught to the vet. He (seemingly) calmly climbed out of his travel box and quietly sat on my hand as the vet examined him. No defensive posturing. H is color was normal relaxed colors. By all appearances, he looked and acted very tame, but looks can be deceiving. There is absolutely no way this animal could possibly be calm. Chameleons spend their life hiding from predators. They are ambush predators, mostly waiting for food to come to them. Even a chameleon's walk mimics leaves shaking in a breeze. Everything about them is about is hiding and camouflage. This animal at the vet's was exposed with no cover in bright lights with two big scary monsters looking at it. Yet, he looked very very calm and relaxed.
So, understand that what you think is going on might not be happening at all.
The next thing to really understand is the effect stress has on an organism, any organism. Stress is not an emotion; understand that. Stress is not how they feel. Stress manifests itself in a cascade of physiological internal responses. It is not something the animal has control over. It is an unseen internal response to some stimuli in the environment and doesn't disappear immediately after the stressor has been removed.
Not all stress is entirely bad. Mating is stressful for animals. Stress can be the obvious such as an acute fear response which would be elicited when being grabbed by a predator (such as a human predator taking the chameleon out of the cage). Stress can also be chronic and at low levels such as housing the animal in inappropriate conditions/temperatures/size of cage/lack of cover and on and on. Stress happens in life but chameleons are particularly susceptible to the effects of stress. The sad part is that few people see it or see it coming.
Stress is a biological response.
When an animal is stressed, there are many physiological responses caused by the release of hormones. Heart rates increase, blood supply is diverted away from the digestive track, blood pressure increases, cortisol is released which affects the blood sugar levels and most importantly, suppresses the immune system.
This is the kicker: stress--both chronic low grade stress and acute stressful events--suppresses the immune system. This is why chameleons are so hard to keep alive--because most people keep them in situations of chronic stress and they die at too young an age.
Bottom line, the people you are dismissing are worried that you are killing your chameleon. It won't be today and it won't be tomorrow. You, like others that insist they can make a chameleon into a poodle, will not even recognize the role they played in their animals ill health and early demise.
I work with wild caughts. Battered, parasite infested newly imported wild caughts. Chameleons with bones exposed. Face rubs to the bone. Severely dehydrated chameleons. They don't tend to die. I give them what I know they need and they heal themselves. I don't even routinely give worming medications even though I KNOW they are loaded with parasites--I let their own robust immune system deal with it.
I hope you understand I am writing this not to be the winner in a pissing contest but to help educate people on how to keep chameleons alive and healthy for their full life, not just a year or two of ill health. @jpowell86, care to wade in or are you too tired to deal with this one more time.
One other thing before I forget--a chameleon that eagerly comes out of its cage is not showing you anything about its tameness or comfort in your presence. Remember the animal that calmly walked onto my hand at the vet? Sometimes the cage is so inappropriate and the animal so stressed they will try to escape the cage. My wild caughts rubbed their faces to the bone to escape their caging at the exporters.
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Dude you need to chill out. I understand the she shouldn't have handled it so early but if it's comfortable with its new surroundings and is craving attention then a good time out of the cage with her new owner may be good for the cham. If the cham was stressed it would have shown signs of being stressed. My cham also loves to be handled all the... by me... and loves to walk around. He's fairly new to the family and is doing just fine.
jajeanpierre
Chameleon Enthusiast
Please, please read my post above. You have had your first chameleon for a week and you claim he is "very happy and healthy" with your routine of handling at the same time you laugh at him being so terrified he tries to bite?
They do not enjoy being petted. Yes, they learn to recognize their keepers and be more comortable in their keeper's presence than with strangers but that is learned.
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I always make sure my chams are in a safe environment they can hide in and it's only funny to me because he's so small. I haven't taken him to my family but once or twice to see if he's more social and after I give him a few super worms to calm him down. He wasnt terrified more like uncomfortable. As soon as he was alone with me he went back to being an attention hog
jajeanpierre
Chameleon Enthusiast
Ah, another instant expert of 7 days.
Try actually reading what I wrote.
Note the part that discussed the stress being an internal, unseen event. Sometimes you don't see the signs of stress until you have a sick chameleon. But then you won't see it then, because you will blame its demise on ill health not realizing that its ill health is a direct consequence of stress.
Note also where I described the nature of the animal, how they don't crave attention.
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My cham can always craves attention trying to get me through his cage. He is very social with me and is so sweet. He also enjoys the occasional silk worms.
Of course I read what you wrote and I also think it's a good idea to socialize him. If he will willingly come to you then he is fine. I only keep him out an hour max and he loves to climb on the tree I set up for him.
