I NEED HELP ASAP

jajeanpierre said:
Kidney failure shows no symptoms until the kidneys can't keep up with amount of toxins they have to remove. There is more kidney than the body needs, which is why a person can donate one kidney and live a normal life. But, suppose the kidneys only remove 99.9% instead of a capacity of 400% of the toxins from the blood. (I have no idea what the capacity of kidneys are, but certainly well over 200% since a person can donate one and go on to live their lives.) Every day there will be an increase of .1% toxins building up in the blood. That's not a lot and the animal (or person) continues on with their life not showing symptoms until slowly the toxins build up to the point of showing symptoms. The kidney failure happened a long time before any symptoms appeared.

I'm just throwing kidney failure out there as an example of what might be wrong because it is so prevalent. Certainly gutloading feeders or multivitamins didn't cause the symptoms you reported.
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Ok. This will be a well-learned lesson. Thank you for your help. I was just talking to The owners of Kammerflage Kreations and they were just as helpful as you. They said its better to get a captive bred than a wild caught and this is a lesson that I will only buy captive bred chameleons. Thank you for the help JaJeanPierre
 
MeruJack said:
:(
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No. that is not true at all I did everything I could for King. My cage I build has 2 sides since I have been planning to get a Panther since December. King is my favorite and will always be my favorite. I have been planning to get this Panther long before King was sick.
 
This is an excellent learning opportunity for this young man. Terrible outcome for poor King but I know almost all of us have made mistakes with our chams when we 1st started keeping them and only being 13 years old he has a lot to learn about life in general. I place blame on his parents as well because they left complete care up to him. They should have been knowledgeable and involved in this animal's care to help prevent such a tragedy. I also think it's irresponsible to purchase him another cham after King became ill and died. It doesn't matter if it was something that he has wanted prior to this or that it was for his birthday. The better route would be to start out with a very simple herp to care for like a leopard gecko then work your way up to more involved care with a beardie and when it's proven that he has the ability and knowledge to care for these animals finally try a cham again.
 
This thread is a train wreck. I can see why I was asked to take a look.


DaChameleonKing said:
I know how to take care of a Chameleon I have done everything I can and he just isn't getting better the medicine more hurts him then helps him he is black on the floor of his cage. He can't even walk.
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I've read this thread for a while. Young man I'm being helpful when I type this. Believe that or don't. I don't care however you did come here for help, that I'll provide.

Your husbandry sucks. That is a contributing factor. This type of animal needs a drip once a day that drips for about 15-20 minutes, that's how you get around the crappy 60sec timer. Most montane species head to the ground if they are too hot or dehydrated. I'd lean towards the dehydration.

Chameleons have pretty specific nutritional needs. Gut loading a bug with the right stuff is a big deal and I see others already gave you a list of stuff to feed your feeders.

Another contributing factor, where you bought it. Most likely it is an import, fair chance on that anyway. Did you vet check for parasites? How did your Vet determine you have a Vit A issue? Just took a glance and said it had one?

Right now your animal is in the last week of time you have to work with, I say work with since after that no expert can help. You need to find an expert, donate him, and hope he makes it. Look for a rescue. You've already said you have zero $$$ so you are done with what you can provide. All you can do now is give him to somebody with a hell of a lot more experience.

If you are so positive he's done for, you haven't learned anything from those who tried to help by typing here.
 
DaChameleonKing said:
No. Too late I ordered a panther and its coming on Wednesday. Watch me take good care of him. I think this should be a lesson to me and I should take better care of this chameleon and make sure he gets all he needs and if you don't believe me watch me.
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This is the most immature thing I've read on the forums in a long time. You said you couldn't take care of the last one and you've already ordered another? And people wonder why I keep my four decades of experience to myself. Good luck to your next chameleon.
 
Nursemaia said:
This is an excellent learning opportunity for this young man. Terrible outcome for poor King but I know almost all of us have made mistakes with our chams when we 1st started keeping them and only being 13 years old he has a lot to learn about life in general. I place blame on his parents as well because they left complete care up to him. They should have been knowledgeable and involved in this animal's care to help prevent such a tragedy. I also think it's irresponsible to purchase him another cham after King became ill and died. It doesn't matter if it was something that he has wanted prior to this or that it was for his birthday. The better route would be to start out with a very simple herp to care for like a leopard gecko then work your way up to more involved care with a beardie and when it's proven that he has the ability and knowledge to care for these animals finally try a cham again.
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I agree with u totally,unfortunately here is the fact....he already determined that he is getting a new cham for his birthday present,which all of us in this forum wont be able to tell him not to get his "birthday present" since his parents already made that decision.so since the action is on the move,we can only follow the action n prevent the next disaster happen in every way,we CAN'T bring the King back no matter how much we telling him,but we can still tell him how to take the best care of his new cham(which Im still agree with everyone its a very very bad decision )
Its like a chess game,when the opponent make a different move n decision,that only left us to reroute our thought in order for our victory in CHECKMATE!!
 
OldChamKeeper said:
This is the most immature thing I've read on the forums in a long time. You said you couldn't take care of the last one and you've already ordered another? And people wonder why I keep my four decades of experience to myself. Good luck to your next chameleon.
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Well said all of it, I know its harsh and I was getting yelled at for being "harsh" sometimes harsh is needed. I am starting to see why you told me you dont participate in Veiled or Panther or jacksons threads lol.

As for the how did the vet know, I dont know, but I can tell you the doctor he seen is a very good one and a few very experienced members on here swear by him. Its janns doc among others.

So knowing that the vet is a very good cham vet, and he seen him and said it was a Vit A issue, I would be inclined to think that is correct and the symptoms are there.
 
Nursemaia said:
This is an excellent learning opportunity for this young man. Terrible outcome for poor King but I know almost all of us have made mistakes with our chams when we 1st started keeping them and only being 13 years old he has a lot to learn about life in general. I place blame on his parents as well because they left complete care up to him. They should have been knowledgeable and involved in this animal's care to help prevent such a tragedy. I also think it's irresponsible to purchase him another cham after King became ill and died. It doesn't matter if it was something that he has wanted prior to this or that it was for his birthday. The better route would be to start out with a very simple herp to care for like a leopard gecko then work your way up to more involved care with a beardie and when it's proven that he has the ability and knowledge to care for these animals finally try a cham again.
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I absolutely disagree with what you are saying. You and I have no idea what was wrong with that chameleon and I can assure you gutloading and supplementation wasn't the problem. No one on this forum knows that this animal's demise had anything at all to do with his care. There is no blame to place on anyone. It is not irresponsible to receive an animal that had been purchased before King became ill. A leopard gecko isn't a chameleon and will teach NOTHING about chameleon care.

I breed a very rare montane species. When I first got them I had owned a PetSmart veiled for a total of six weeks. That's it--I was a rank novice, still am in my opinion. I bought a wild caught quad from a shipment that the experienced breeders of montane species lost most of. Mine didn't die. In fact, in the first 17 months since I bought my first wild caught, I only lost two out of my original 8 wild caught quads and graciliors: one from lung worms about 10 days after import (necropsied by the vet and she said he was doomed) and the other from a mistake the vet made giving subcutaneous injections to treat a problem she created because of a reaction to a medication she gave. I had zero experience keeping herps. It's not rocket science.

Euthanizing rather than spending a lot of money trying to save a gravely ill animal is not wrong for whatever reason a person makes that choice. This person took their animal to a vet, tried to save him and the animal continued to decline. Choosing euthanasia for whatever reason is simply not wrong. I do not believe people are obligated to spend a lot of money trying to save animals they own. They are obligated to give them a good, pain free life. That's it. Something is very wrong in this society that puts a sickly chameleon ahead of the financial health of the owner.
 
jajeanpierre said:
I absolutely disagree with what you are saying. You and I have no idea what was wrong with that chameleon and I can assure you gutloading and supplementation wasn't the problem. No one on this forum knows that this animal's demise had anything at all to do with his care. There is no blame to place on anyone. It is not irresponsible to receive an animal that had been purchased before King became ill. A leopard gecko isn't a chameleon and will teach NOTHING about chameleon care.

I breed a very rare montane species. When I first got them I had owned a PetSmart veiled for a total of six weeks. That's it--I was a rank novice, still am in my opinion. I bought a wild caught quad from a shipment that the experienced breeders of montane species lost most of. Mine didn't die. In fact, in the first 17 months since I bought my first wild caught, I only lost two out of my original 8 wild caught quads and graciliors: one from lung worms about 10 days after import (necropsied by the vet and she said he was doomed) and the other from a mistake the vet made giving subcutaneous injections to treat a problem she created because of a reaction to a medication she gave. I had zero experience keeping herps. It's not rocket science.

Euthanizing rather than spending a lot of money trying to save a gravely ill animal is not wrong for whatever reason a person makes that choice. This person took their animal to a vet, tried to save him and the animal continued to decline. Choosing euthanasia for whatever reason is simply not wrong. I do not believe people are obligated to spend a lot of money trying to save animals they own. They are obligated to give them a good, pain free life. That's it. Something is very wrong in this society that puts a sickly chameleon ahead of the financial health of the owner.
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No one told him to spend money. He was gave medication to give the chameleon for 10 days, the next day he writes here and says well I am putting it down. I hope m,y family doesnt act like that if I get gravely ill are you kidding me right now.

So your logic is take it to the vet, get a treatment then put it down the next day when nothing changes 1 day later?

I feel as if you are not looking at dates of this thread, or are ignoring them. This all happened in a couple of a days, He took it to the vet on Saturday, gave the medication and on Monday said well I am putting it down.
 
Ladies and Gentlemen,O.P has already made another thread regarding his R.I.P King,we can not bring back from the past,but we can always make the future brighter.....regardless kidney or supplement gutloading none of these will bring back the King ,the fact we having right now is regarding his 5month old panther cham which according to the O.P ,the cham will be arrive on Wednesday tomorrow,my suggestion for everyone is help the O.P to understand and get this panther cham in the best living environment as it can be,this way we wont have another debate sessions on another cham,clock is ticking....they only going "forward" unless is the day light saving time in America.
 
DaChameleonKing said:
I should take better care of this chameleon and make sure he gets all he needs and if you don't believe me watch me.
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Just remember when all is said and done, the most important creature that will be watching you is your CHAMELEON. He will depend on you for everything...correct habitat, temperatures, lighting, humidity, gutloading, supplementation, access to vet care when he's sick, and daily upkeep no matter what else you have going on. If you don't know specifically what this species needs learn it before he arrives. If you don't have money for something its up to you to GET IT. If you go on vacation arrange proper care. None of these things are optional...they are required.
 
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cyberlocc said:
No one told him to spend money. He was gave medication to give the chameleon for 10 days, the next day he writes here and says well I am putting it down. I hope m,y family doesnt act like that if I get gravely ill are you kidding me right now.

So your logic is take it to the vet, get a treatment then put it down the next day when nothing changes 1 day later?

I feel as if you are not looking at dates of this thread, or are ignoring them. This all happened in a couple of a days, He took it to the vet on Saturday, gave the medication and on Monday said well I am putting it down.
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I haven't paid attention to the dates, only the vitriol and judgement.

No vet puts an animal down that has a quick and easy fix to make it well again. Not when an owner comes in wanting to save their animal. None. If he was as good a reptile vet as you say, he would have gone over the husbandry, temps, etc.
 
jajeanpierre said:
I haven't paid attention to the dates, only the vitriol and judgement.

No vet puts an animal down that has a quick and easy fix to make it well again. Not when an owner comes in wanting to save their animal. None. If he was as good a reptile vet as you say, he would have gone over the husbandry, temps, etc.
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He may have we dont know if he told him he should be gutloading ect.

and OP didn't have the vet put the animal down, OP put the animal down.

I feel like you should go back and read this thread and the one before it more closely as you are not grasping the situation or where the judgement or vitriol come from.

OP did not have good husbandry. He posted here cham was sick, he was recommended a good vet. The vet said give him Vit A for 10 days, he left the vet gave Vit A, and then posted every 10 mins "its not working" then on Monday decided to euthanize the animal himself.

Likely in a freezer but I dont know he wasn't shared how he did it.

So if he didn't share how he did it, how do I know. Well we both know that costs money. Money he doesn't have, he stated he had zero an hour before. He then Proceeded to make an RIP post 5 mins after the decisions to put the animal down.

Your right the Vet likely wouldn't have put the animal down, but the Vet didn't have a say.
 
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She (jajeanpierre) is got a point on this I will agree the vet should dig a lit bit more deeper to find out what is the real cause behind @cyberlocc maybe is both kidney n wrong supplement gutloading all together that bring the King down his health,anyway lets help the O.P on his next cham,unless he decided not to getting panther cham
 
alphakenc said:
She (jajeanpierre) is got a point on this I will agree the vet should dig a lit bit more deeper to find out what is the real cause behind @cyberlocc maybe is both kidney n wrong supplement gutloading all together that bring the King down his health,anyway lets help the O.P on his next cham,unless he decided not to getting panther cham
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For the vet to dig deeper, they would need a necroposy or a live animal at least. There is neither now. I also am not disagreeing it could have been kidney or liver failure, which are also both caused by poor supplementation. It could have been something from the wild, however the poor husbandry surely didn't help matters even if it was.

(OP cant afford a Necroposy)
 
cyberlocc said:
He may have we dont know if he told him he should be gutloading ect.

and OP didn't have the vet put the animal down, OP put the animal down.

I feel like you should go back and read this thread and the one before it more closely as you are not grasping the situation or where the judgement or vitriol come from.

OP did not have good husbandry. He posted here cham was sick, he was recommended a good vet. The vet said give him Vit A for 10 days, he left the vet gave Vit A, and then posted every 10 mins "its not working" then on Monday decided to euthanize the animal himself.

Likely in a freezer but I dont know he wasn't shared how he did it.

So if he didn't share how he did it, how do I know. Well we both know that costs money. Money he doesn't have, he stated he had zero an hour before. He then Proceeded to make an RIP post 5 mins after the decisions to put the animal down.

Your right the Vet likely wouldn't have put the animal down, but the Vet didn't have a say.
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Best way to euthanize a reptile is cervical dislocation or decapitation. Nothing inhumane about that. You don't need a vet to do it.

Where is this in memorial thread?
 
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