Motherlode Chameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
Jurgen
Your not saying much have you got any incubation temperatures and diapause temperatures to post?
Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich
If there were new CITES species quotas?
- Thread starter Motherlode Chameleon
- Start date
Jurgen
Your not saying much have you got any incubation temperatures and diapause temperatures to post?
Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich
Motherlode Chameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
The incubation reports I have heard about Furcifer campani is the first 3-4 months 72-73F then a one month diapause at 64-65F then finish the incubation at 71-74F.
Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich
Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich
Chase
Chameleon Enthusiast
Motherlode Chameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
I stand by the incubation temperatures I posted. As well I know that they are from one of the coldest environments in Madagascar as I stated above. The one thing that won't work is incubating the eggs without a diapause as Kevin said he was doing. The other main problem reported about captive breeding this species was making the captive bred males interested in mating with female Furcifer campani. Reports claim wild caught males never seem have a problem mating with females, while captive bred males just are not interested. That makes them much more difficult to breed than Furcifer lateralis.
Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich
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frankpayne32
Avid Member
Where are you getting this information? Did you determine it for yourself? Did you observe it first hand through another keeper? It is never a good idea to be convinced by second hand information, especially when it comes to the care of rare animals. So many chameleon keeping rules have been broken by people that don't listen to what they have read but learn from what they experience and observe. Kevin (dooley) proved that a diapause for lateralis is not necessary though before that it was "known" that that it was. Kevin is being modest. At least one of his eggs has shown development without a diapause and I am confidant that if anyone in the states can hatch campani it is him. The only reason I used a diapause when he did not is to compare multiple incubation strategies in order to learn.
For the sake of sharing first hand experience I will detail my very limited experience keeping and breeding Furcifer campani. This is the log that I have kept:
Furcifer campani log
4/4/14
• Introduced M1 with F1. M1 initiated courtship immediately. Copulation began less than 30 seconds after introduction. Copulation lasted for 7 min 30 sec.
•Gestation seems to be around 60 days. She should lay around the beginning of June.
•Two possible incubation strategies:
oConstant 70 F the whole time
oThree months at 77 F, decrease temp by one degree every day until 60 F is reached. Maintain for six weeks. Raise temperature by one degree every day until 77 F is reached again. Maintain for three months until hatching.
6/9/14
•Found two eggs on top of soil in F1’s enclosure. One had a hole in it, the other was dented in and very infertile looking. No other eggs found in enclosure.
•F1 was moved to egg laying enclosure. Appears to still be carrying eggs.
6/11/14
•Two eggs laid in egg laying bin on surface of soil. Appear fertile.
6/12/14
•Another egg laid in enclosure on surface of soil. Appears fertile.
Incubation Strategy Employed:
•Will keep eggs at reptile room temperature for three months (until September 11, 2014). Eggs will then be moved to basement for diapauses from September 11, 2014 to October 24, 2014. Eggs will then be transferred back to reptile room for remainder of incubation (approximately three months). Eggs should theoretically be ready to hatch around the end of January.
9/11/14
•During diapause two eggs shrunk and collapsed. One egg still maintains good shape. No vascular development detected though.
•Remaining egg moved to reptile room to finish incubation. Temperatures vary from 68-78.
11/21/14
•Remaining egg candled. Vascular development observed. Appears to be developing normally. Still projecting hatching around the end of January.
So that is where I stand as of now. I have no idea if my one egg will hatch but it is developing and I am hopeful. A little more history on my campani experience. I started with 1.1 WC. They arrived in good shape and after acclimating them for several months I introduced them and the breeding occurred that I detailed above. Kevin (dooley) provided me with his remaining female to attempt further breeding. The first time the male attempted breeding he was aggressively rebuffed by the new female. After that encounter the male would show his breeding colors in her presence but would not attempt to initiate mating. My original female died egg bound shortly after laying her eggs. She had three more inside. Her permanent enclosure was fully planted and had deep soil. She was also moved to a separate egg laying enclosure. She never attempted to dig. Two weeks after laying the original eggs she passed. I performed a necropsy and found the three (relatively large) eggs inside. The female that Kevin provided me with died several months after because of a power outage that shut off the AC in my reptile room while I was away for a weekend. The male campani survived the heat spike but was never the same afterwards. Despite several months of effort to recuperate him he never regained his full vigor and passed. The loss of those two animals was devastating.
Hardly a success story but I have learned a great deal from working with just three animals. If I get the chance to work with this species again I feel like I will be even more successful. I hope this thread drums up some other campani breeders. I have a hard time believing that the only campani clutches in the US are within fifty miles of each other.
Dedicated chameleon keepers far more experienced and knowledgeable than me are here in the US. Efforts are being made, they are just too few and far between. These new species, CB and WC, that are coming into the US right now I fear are going into the hands of the highest bidder, not necessarily to those that are best suited to actually establish them. We are truly in a chameleon renaissance right now, I'm sad to see the financial component is such a large part of it. At least the campani were not monstrously overpriced...
Anyway, enough ranting, here are some pictures I took of my campani breeding efforts.
Mating
Mating Video
Stunning gravid coloration
Female laying
I hope this has been helpful and relevant.
Frank
Mike Fisher
Established Member
Yes, thanks for posting. This thread has been very informative, I had no idea that these were from such a cold environment. If any come available in the future, I might give them a try.
Chase
Chameleon Enthusiast
I'm thinking the same, they sound tricky, but I bet there is an answet.
@Frank- did you reintroduce the pair to see if they would copulate again? Has she given a second clutch from retained sperm?
Chase
frankpayne32
Avid Member
Thank you Mike and Chase.
I did reintroduce the pair shortly after the first mating on two occasions. Both times she showed very vibrant coloration and saw the male off. She became gravid after the one mating. She did not lay a second clutch. As I said in my first post she died egg-bound not having passed the entirety of the first clutch.
Dooley1
Avid Member
Frank,
Great post. I would have used a diapause if I had the room but too many eggs in both incubators and they (campani) were not a focus for me. Also, I did get nesting in a 5 gallon bucket.
Jeremy-I'm guessing that diapause will make it more predictable, but it is not necessary for vascularization. I have seen that first hand. There is more than one way to do things. I also have never seen anything mentioning males won't breed, but I doubt a few examples in captivity represent a species.
Necas said the courtship was very slow with these and that gestation was 60 days. I, like Frank, observed extremely quick and unceremonious copulation, and I also had gestation at 25 days, identical to lateralis.
So, we will see. Either way, I know relatively little about this species. I hope some people have success. They are great little chameleons
Great post. I would have used a diapause if I had the room but too many eggs in both incubators and they (campani) were not a focus for me. Also, I did get nesting in a 5 gallon bucket.
Jeremy-I'm guessing that diapause will make it more predictable, but it is not necessary for vascularization. I have seen that first hand. There is more than one way to do things. I also have never seen anything mentioning males won't breed, but I doubt a few examples in captivity represent a species.
Necas said the courtship was very slow with these and that gestation was 60 days. I, like Frank, observed extremely quick and unceremonious copulation, and I also had gestation at 25 days, identical to lateralis.
So, we will see. Either way, I know relatively little about this species. I hope some people have success. They are great little chameleons
Chase
Chameleon Enthusiast
Frank,
Great post. I would have used a diapause if I had the room but too many eggs in both incubators and they (campani) were not a focus for me. Also, I did get nesting in a 5 gallon bucket.
Jeremy-I'm guessing that diapause will make it more predictable, but it is not necessary for vascularization. I have seen that first hand. There is more than one way to do things. I also have never seen anything mentioning males won't breed, but I doubt a few examples in captivity represent a species.
Necas said the courtship was very slow with these and that gestation was 60 days. I, like Frank, observed extremely quick and unceremonious copulation, and I also had gestation at 25 days, identical to lateralis.
So, we will see. Either way, I know relatively little about this species. I hope some people have success. They are great little chameleons
Hey Kevin-
Are you keeping the eggs exactly like your lateralis?
Chase
Motherlode Chameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
Frank
Thanks for posting your experiences. My notes are coming from a Parsonii keeper (anonymous for now) who was breeding Furcifer campani as well. He posted that after much trail and error (along with other European keepers) that the eggs needed a cool/on the cold side incubation and an essential diapause. That stated after that the eggs were not difficult to hatch. However breeding the the captive bred males was difficult due to a lack of desire to want to breed. Thanks for posting your experiences. I have had the not opportunity to look yet however I think there is a CIN about breeding this species?
Jeremy-I'm guessing that diapause will make it more predictable, but it is not necessary for vascularization. I have seen that first hand. There is more than one way to do things. I also have never seen anything mentioning males won't breed, but I doubt a few examples in captivity represent a species.
Necas said the courtship was very slow with these and that gestation was 60 days. I, like Frank, observed extremely quick and unceremonious copulation, and I also had gestation at 25 days, identical to lateralis.
So, we will see. Either way, I know relatively little about this species. I hope some people have success. They are great little chameleons
Kevin
Those are the reports from experienced Furcifer campani breeders that I have heard. If you do not want to go with a diapause that is up to you. However many of these new Madagascar species are known to require diapauses such as Calumma parsonii parsonii and from the reports I have heard Furcifer campani. Much of the trial and error breeding of these new Madagascar species has been done in Europe. We should take some more notes about their accomplishments.
Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich
frankpayne32
Avid Member
I do not believe there was a CIN article on campani. I have all the issues and do not recall one although I could be mistaken. When I acquired the campani I looked everywhere I could for information on them.
Motherlode Chameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
I would double check!! Talking to European breeders would help too.
Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich
frankpayne32
Avid Member
Done on both counts months ago. I could be wrong on the CIN article but I couldn't find one.
Motherlode Chameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
I am going to look tonight. If you are going to want to keep working with Furcifer campani I can put you in contact with some of my European colleagues.
Best Regards
Jeremy A.Rich
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frankpayne32
Avid Member
Thanks so much.
Motherlode Chameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
Everyone reading this thread should read my Blog. It is a fair warning about these new Madagascar quotas species and there difficulty to breed.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...-new-2014-madagascar-cites-quota-species.html
Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...-new-2014-madagascar-cites-quota-species.html
Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich
Motherlode Chameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
This is a quote from another thread however it applies here to this thread too.
"I have stated stay away from species that are listed as Endangered and especially species that are listed as Critically Endangered. Allow conservationists to take care of their job and restore populations/habitat. Collecting species that are Endangered while active conservation programs are going on could be said as undermining the restoration program. As well I have got concerns about exporting populations that are listed as Vulnerable. They are a bubble species to me."
Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich
"I have stated stay away from species that are listed as Endangered and especially species that are listed as Critically Endangered. Allow conservationists to take care of their job and restore populations/habitat. Collecting species that are Endangered while active conservation programs are going on could be said as undermining the restoration program. As well I have got concerns about exporting populations that are listed as Vulnerable. They are a bubble species to me."
Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich
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