Leon is tilting his head and walking in circles. Falls over just standing there.

[drumminherbie]

Yesterday, Leon was acting fine and was active like any other day, with no problems. This morning during feeding time, my wife noticed that his head and body were tilted, pretty close to 45 degree angle. We just thought nothing of it and went about our day. Later, we saw him climbing the cage and decided to take him to his favorite fake tree. Once there, we noticed he was acting funny.

We placed him on our floor to let him walk, but he acted like he couldn't get his balance and kept walking in a circle. It is like he has lost his sense of direction. Even now, he is sleeping, but he is practically falling off because of the angle he is holding on. He's laying his head down on a branch, his colors are great and bright, and my wife said he just opened his eyes to see who was checking him out just now. Any ideas what this could possibly be?

He's got good straight bones in his spine and all four legs, and we just noticed these odd symptoms today. He went from great, to acting drunk, or like a stroke patient. It's very weird.

Thanks.

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Veiled, Male, aprox 7 months
Handling - Almost daily to make sure it drinks a bit of water. Extremely active, always wants to climb on me whenever it gets the chance. Difficult to put back in the cage.
Feeding - Right now feeding a crickets mainly Feeders are gutloaded with Flukers.
Supplements - Calcium w/o D3 everyday. Reptivite twice a month and Calcium w/ D3 twice a month
Watering - Dripper filled three times a day.
Fecal Description - Solid brown poops with white urate everyday.
History -N/A

Cage Info:
Cage Type - 2ft X 2ft X 4ft Reptibreeze. He's only been in this cage for about 3 weeks, before he was in a smaller terrarium.
Lighting - 1000 watt light bulb for basking (I've tried lower wattage but then my temps are never right) and a UVB bulb
Temperature - Basking spot is 88.6 degrees, the highest stick is about 90 degrees,
Humidity - Humidity during misting is about 70% and when not misting hangs out 50%
Plants - Fake vines
Placement - In the living room
Location - Brookville IN

 

[Lovereps]

The possible causes that come to mind are dehydration, nutritional deficiencies , injury and stroke.

I would get him seen by a vet ASAP.

The only home treatment that might possibly benefit him is getting him rehydrated by "showering" but he may also need an injection of fluids or an injection of whatever vitamin he is lacking.

Assuming it is dehydration, the extent of dehydration that would cause this is serious, so I would do this as soon as possible:
Shower your chameleon--NOT directly but like this---
Place a large plant in the tub, aim the shower head against the wall, and run the water so that only a fine mist reaches the chameleon. The water should be room temperature (not hot!). They may drink for up to 30 minutes. Make sure to supervise your chameleon at all times while using this method. Taken from here https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/water/
Dehydration can be caused by too little water or it can be a symptom brought on by another problem, such as internal parasites, infections or kidney failure.

In moving him from a vivarium to a screen cage, perhaps that the previously good humidity levels became very low from fans or a/c.
Increasing the length and frequency of mistings and providing a dripper would resolve that. Many people cover a large percentage of the sides of screen cages to help keep the humidity high enough for their chams' health.
As room temps increase it's easy to forget that the ambient and basking temps are increasing, which can lead to accidental overheating--leading to dehydration.
Worth noting is that Flukers is not a nutritious gutload and your cham should be getting a variety of well-fed feeders so they are providing the most nutrition.
Good gutloading can be done cheaply using raw scraps of vegetables that your family eats.
More info here:https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/food/

A vet followup, including a fecal check for parasites would be the best.
Please keep us up to date on how Leon is.

 

[Mike Fisher]

Not sure if reptiles can get Meniere's disease, or how you'd even diagnose it, but the symptoms fit. The only other thing I can think of is the size of the feeders. I know with bearded dragons, if you feed them too large of prey, it puts pressure on spinal nerves which messes up equilibrium and they tilt their heads and run in circles. Not sure if this could happen in chameleons though.

 

[Cait0420]

I adopted a beardies who used to do that till he passed away. I never knew what the disease was called though so I'm glad I now know.

 

[junglefries]

The only other thing I can think of is the size of the feeders. I know with bearded dragons, if you feed them too large of prey, it puts pressure on spinal nerves which messes up equilibrium and they tilt their heads and run in circles. Not sure if this could happen in chameleons though.

Something new everday. Keep 'em coming.

 

[kinyonga]

Never heard of the bearded thing happening in chameleons but I have heard of the head tilting and circling behavior but I don't remember what caused it.

 

[drumminherbie]

We did have a larger cricket in our box that we gave him last week. I just assumed he'd be ok with it and chomp it down like all the others. Do you really think this could affect chams as well? Does it digest and eventually go away?

I really don't think it is dehydration, as I mist him often and he drinks as much as he wants everyday. Eyes are fine and not sunken in.

Thanks for replies so far.

 

[junglefries]

Make sure to finish this post with a result. Resolved or not. At least three of us here will remember the answer for future inquiries. Hope it ends happy.

 

[Lovereps]

We did have a larger cricket in our box that we gave him last week. I just assumed he'd be ok with it and chomp it down like all the others. Do you really think this could affect chams as well? Does it digest and eventually go away?

I really don't think it is dehydration, as I mist him often and he drinks as much as he wants everyday. Eyes are fine and not sunken in.

Thanks for replies so far.

You're very welcome.
Many people here enjoy helping others to the best of their abilities.

My suggestion of showering him was based on the facts that A) it could be dehydration for the reasons I mentioned and B) showering him until he drinks his fill will do him no harm.
Since he is "off-balance" I would be sure to heavily pad the area near him or take him outside over soft ground and mist him there, if temps permit.
Do I think it will solve the problem?
Probably not based on your statements but there's nothing to be lost by trying it and if it is dehydration--the sooner he rehydrates the better.

I very strongly doubt that Leon's problem has anything to do with eating a large cricket.
His symptoms are serious and would compel me to get him to a vet with significant cham or at least reptile experience for treatment.
Whatever the cause it is highly unlikely to go away on its own.

The problem with symptoms is that the same symptoms can have very different causes.

Take dehydration, for example:
A cham can be dehydrated due to lack of sufficient water intake.
OR
Internal parasites.
OR
An infection
OR
Internal bleeding
OR
Kidney failure.

Those are 5 very different causes for the exact same symptom. Naturally, the treatments would each be very different
A vet can distinguish between them by examining your cham and looking for specific things, as well as doing tests to confirm.

I should add to the list of possibilities, so it reads dehydration, nutritional deficiencies , injury, illness, parasites, exposure to toxins/pesticides and stroke, as some toxins, viruses and internal parasites can affect the nervous system .

Cait, in bearded dragons, head tilt and circling are very often caused by adenoviruses. There is no cure, unfortunately, which is why quaranting new arrivals is essential.

AFAIK, an adenovirus would have to be contracted from another reptile or its feces.
If you have other reptiles close by, if the cage Leon is in was previously inhabited by another reptile, or if someone didn't wash hands in between caring for them or took something from one critters cage to another (feeders in particular) then it's possible.
I certainly hope that Leon has something treatable.

Whatever the cause, it truly needs diagnosis by a vet and treatment.
All that helpful people on the internet can do is to speculate based upon their experiences and knowledge

Wishing you and Leon, all the best.

As junglefries said, please do let us know the outcome.

 

[Lovereps]

Not sure if reptiles can get Meniere's disease, or how you'd even diagnose it, but the symptoms fit. The only other thing I can think of is the size of the feeders. I know with bearded dragons, if you feed them too large of prey, it puts pressure on spinal nerves which messes up equilibrium and they tilt their heads and run in circles. Not sure if this could happen in chameleons though.

Mike are you 100% sure about that?
I've heard of impaction exerting pressure on the spine and causing rear leg paralysis but not head tilting and circling.
AKAIK, the culprit in Beardies is most often adenovirus.
If you are certain, I'm always eager to learn and would love it if you can point me to info .

 

[kinyonga]

He wasn't on antibiotics recently was he?

 

[drumminherbie]

Leon looks better today. Balance is MUCH better. He drank and ate like normal. He is still holding his head cockeyed and he is currently sleeping with his head sideways again. My wife is taking him to the vet to get a full checkup. Any advice on finding a good vet or things to take with him? We found a vet clinic that does exotic animals 45 minutes away, but it's the closes that has anything to do with exotic animals.

He has stopped walking in circles and could at least stay on my arm today so I could make sure he got a good drink. He does still favor leaning to his side though. I had read on an article that it could have also been inner ear or nerve damage to the balance portion of his brain, maybe if he had fell or something. We aren't home most of the day while his light is on, so not sure if that is it or not. I'll let you guys know what the vet says, as we will have him there as long as he is still acting like this tomorrow.

 

[drumminherbie]

He wasn't on antibiotics recently was he?

Nope. Have not been to the vet to receive any.

 

[Lovereps]

I'm glad that he has shown improvement and that you're taking him to a vet.

If possible, gather a fresh poop for analysis by the vet. The fresher the better.(Todays poop can be baggied up and refrigerated, not frozen.)
My chams' vet was delighted when a cham had just pooped in the box from fright and it was promptly scooped up and analyzed on the spot.

FWIW, I line a box with a towel, put a fake flexible vine or a large stick through the box so it's stable and the cham has something to grip onto.
Masking tape then seals the box.

You can post the name of the vet you're considering and perhaps someone here is familiar with them.
You can click on the 2 links here to find vets https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/healthx/vet/, or search past posts and possibly find a good vet or post your location and perhaps someone from your area can recommend one.
In Florida and CA there are some truly excellent vets with plenty of cham experience.
As I recall, Florida has Dr Ivan Alfonso, who only makes house calls, if I'm not mistaken---and he became a vet because he loves chameleons.
Makes me wish I lived close enough to have him as my chams' vet.