Lethargic, not eating, eye issue.

thedoctorswife

thedoctorswife

New Member
  • Your Chameleon - Veiled chameleon, male, about 7months, bought at Pet store. Been with me for 4 months.
  • Handling - daily for a few minutes. He usually hisses a little and moves away but is fine once i have him.
  • Feeding - he has never eaten crickets, i have offered small, dusted daily. He will eat 1 wax worm a day usually, sometimes 2. He has access to more but never touches them. He eats out of my hand or in his habitat. I leave cucumber or romaine in tank for hydration, he nibbles very slightly.
  • Supplements - I have rep-cal, calcium powder, no vit D.
  • Watering - I have used a desk top humidifier, a little dripper, and misting by hand. He seems better with misting, the dropper is still running but he doesn't appear to be using it.
  • Fecal Description - Generally i find, stools on leaves every couple of days. I have attached a pic of general appearance.
  • History - I started him in a mesh cage but could not regulate humidity well, now he is in a exo-terra glass tank.

Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - Glass, exo-terra, 12, 12, 18. Fake cave wall on one side, repti carpet on one side. Soil on base with tin bucket to catch water from dripper. Silk plant (good amount for hiding).
  • Lighting - exoterra blue day bulb, i just started with this because it is 60watt, the previous one was a zoo-med 100watt. Which i realise was too hot for him. Coil uvb bulb, about ready for replacing because of use life. red 40watt bulb overnight (my house is quite cold)
  • Temperature - Basking temp was 95' but i lowered it to 80'. Ambient light tends to be around 55-60'.
  • Humidity - I have tried a humidifier which worked well, but it just broke. I am currently misting an average of 3 times a day. Tends to be at 55/60
  • Plants - No live plants.
  • Placement -The cage is placed in a corner of the main room, There are no vents close by. There is a window 3 feet away on one side. The top of the tank is about 5 foot high.
  • Location - We are in Illinois. Our temps are just getting up to the 90's, humidity will be high. My house is cool, usually around 70'. The air indoors is dry because of a/c. This was my reason for humidifier.

Current Problem - Grover was very dehydrated, I figured i was keeping it too hot, and made changes. He doesn't use the dripper but it is always available. I mist a few times a day, allowing it to dry fully in between. I am able to give a few drops of watery repti-boost from a syringe, at first he refused it but now is opening his mouth for it. He won't eat. His eyes are almost closed, he does not respond to movement around him. I don't think he looks healthy. One other concern is that he has his mouth in an odd position, could his tongue be an issue? Did i cause a problem slightly easing his mouth open to offer a little hydration?


PICTURES
GROVER NOW, notice lips and eye. Poop evident which is a good thing since he has only had reptiboost
Capture+_2017-06-08-20-23-41.png
TANK, set up as now.

20170608_202229.jpg


Grover week 1.


20170309_115845-1.jpg
GROVERS FIRST AND ONLY SHED, week 4
20170403_201431.jpg

GROVERS SPACE
20170608_202216.jpg
 
All that stuff sitting on the top of the cage is likely blocking airflow to begin with.
Are you sure it's a male? Does he have trou ble shedding?
He should not have any light at night. Unless the room temp goes down below 60 he doesn't need heat either.
The daytime light shouldn't be blue either...you can use a regular incandescent household light bulb for basking.
Glad you lowered the basking temperature.
What do you feed/gutload the insects with?
Do you not use a phosphorous-free calcium/D3 powder at all or a vitamin powder?
The lips curling can be a sign of MBD.
He should be eating a lot more and wax worms are not a good staple...they should only be a treat. They're too fatty for the main part if the diet. Why ni crickets?
What's on the floor of the cage for substrate?
 
All that stuff sitting on the top of the cage is likely blocking airflow to begin with. THE TILE ON TOP WAS AN ATTEMPT TO RAISE THE DRIPPER, IT MADE IT EASIER TO CONTROL THE FLOW. BUT IT HAS ONLY BEEN THERE FOR 2 DAYS AND I CAN DEFINITELY REMOVE IT. THANK YOU FOR THAT THOUGHT.
Are you sure it's a male? Does he have trou ble shedding? I WAS PRETTY SURE HE IS MALE BUT I GUESS I COULD BE WRONG. I WILL HAVE THE VET CONFIRM. HE SHED ONCE AND IT WAS FANTASTIC, TOOK ABOUT 30 MINS AND IT ALL JUST FLAKED OFF.
He should not have any light at night. Unless the room temp goes down below 60 he doesn't need heat either. I CAN CERTAINLY STOP USING THE NIGHT LIGHT AT NIGHT. THANK YOU.
The daytime light shouldn't be blue either...you can use a regular incandescent household light bulb for basking. THE BLUE BULB WAS IN THE SET UP THAT I BOUGHT, I NEVER USED IT UNTIL NOW. OBVIOUSLY THE LIGHT I WAS USING WAS WAY TOO HOT WHICH IS WHY I SWITCHED. CAN YOU TELL ME WHY NOT BLUE? I AM HAPPY TO REPLACE IT BUT DON'T FOLLOW HOW THE COLOUR CHANGES THINGS.
Glad you lowered the basking temperature. ME TOO!
What do you feed/gutload the insects with? SORRY, I SHOULD HAVE SAID, THE CRICKETS AND WORMS ARE GUT LOADED WITH ROMAINE LETTUCE, CUCUMBER, TOMATO, BANANA, APPLE ETC.
Do you not use a phosphorous-free calcium/D3 powder at all or a vitamin powder? THE CALCIUM POWDER IS PHOSPHORUS FREE, NO VIT D3. I USE REPTI-VITE. JUST OVER THIS LAST WEEK. I NEVER USED VITAMIN POWDER TO DUST FOOD BUT WILL GET IT TOMORROW.
The lips curling can be a sign of MBD. :(
He should be eating a lot more and wax worms are not a good staple...they should only be a treat. They're too fatty for the main part if the diet. Why ni crickets? HE DOES NOT ACKNOWLEDGE CRICKETS. I DON'T KNOW WHY, HE HAS SOME SMALLS IN THE TANK BUT HAS NEVER EATEN ANY, EVEN WHEN I FIRST BROUGHT HIM HOME. HE HAS HAD MEAL WORMS AND WAX WORMS BECAUSE IT IS ALL HE WOULD TAKE. I BOUGHT BUTTERWORMS RECENTLY BUT NOW HE IS NOT INTERESTED IN ANY FOOD AT ALL SO I DON'T KNOW IF HE EVEN LIKES THEM.
What's on the floor of the cage for substrate? I HAVE USED DIFFERENT SUBSTRATES, CARPET, TILE, SOIL, BARK. AT THE MOMENT I AM USING ECO EARTH SIMPLY BECAUSE SOMETIMES THE DRIPPER MAKES A LITTLE MESS IF I HAVEN'T PLACED THE BUCKET RIGHT. I HAVE CHANGED THE SOIL AFTER 7 DAYS TO PREVENT MOULD ETC.

If there is anything else you can tell me I would be very grateful. Grover will be seeing a vet obviously but until he can be seen I want to do all I can for him.
 
Poor little guy. I love veileds and they are one of my favorite species. I see quite a few things I would recommend changing in the way you are keeping him. It's to many for me to list at the moment but here is my blog for how I recommend keeping young veileds. https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...-with-young-veiled-or-panther-chameleons.325/

Also here a good vet hopefully not to far from you with chameleon experience.

Dr. Todd Gray
Arboretum View Animal Hospital
2551 Warrenville Road
Downers Grove, IL 60515
630-963-0424 - phone
630-963-0537 - fax
www.avah.org
 
jannb said:
Poor little guy. I love veileds and they are one of my favorite species. I see quite a few things I would recommend changing in the way you are keeping him. It's to many for me to list at the moment but here is my blog for how I recommend keeping young veileds. https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...-with-young-veiled-or-panther-chameleons.325/

Also here a good vet hopefully not to far from you with chameleon experience.

Dr. Todd Gray
Arboretum View Animal Hospital
2551 Warrenville Road
Downers Grove, IL 60515
630-963-0424 - phone
630-963-0537 - fax
www.avah.org
Click to expand...



Thank you so much for the blog info. I will study it well.
We already have a vet who can see us on Monday first thing. He is the only one in our area and has treated my beardies in the past.
I will give updates as the days go on.
 
I guess I missed something. What kind of UVB are you using? Your Cham looks to be in serious trouble,
Please let us know what the vet has to say.
Also airflow is critical in a glass setup maybe you could set up a tiny fan to pull air out of the tank.
 
Substrate...some substrates can lead to impaction if ingested...so usually I use no substrate.

Blue light...see Night Lights in this site...
https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/lighting/

Feeding/gutloading...you can feed/gutload crickets, superworms ,etc with a wide assortment of greens such as dandelion greens, kale, endive, collards, escarole, carrots, squash, zucchini, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, etc and a bit of fruit such as berries, melon, apple, pear, etc.

Supplements...dusting with the phosphorous-free calcium powder at almost all feedings helps make up for the usually poor ratio of calcium to phosphorous found in most feeder insects.
Dusting lightly twice a month with a phosphorous-free calcium/D3 powder ensures the chameleon gets so e D3 without overdosing it and leaving it to produce the rest from its exposure to the UVB light. D3 from supplements can build up in the system and lead to health issues. D3 produced from exposure to the UVB won't as long as the chameleon can move in and out of the UVB at will.
It's recommended that you dust twice a month with a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene prOformed source of vitamin A. PrOformed sources of vitamin A will not build up in the system like prEformed sources will so you won't overdose the chameleon and if/when the chameleon needs prEformed vitamin A you can give it some. D3 and vitamin A are somewhat antagonistic to each other and need to be in balance.

UVB light replacement...I would recommend a long linear type UVB light such as the Repti-sun 5.0.
 
UPDATE ON GROVER.
So we just got back from the vet. She believes that Grovers nasal ducts are blocked. This would explain him keeping his eyes closed and the lethargy, since he is breathing thru his mouth, which explains the strange looking lips.
I have made so many changes thanks to the great advise I have been given here. The vet says we are doing just about everything right with regard his habitat now.
Grover has been prescribed 6 portions of critical care per day and antibacterial eye drops 4 times daily.

Again, I am so very grateful to you all for the great help and advise.
I will keep you updated as and when I am able.
 
kinyonga said:
What is going to unblock the nose? Did the vet unblocking somehow??
Click to expand...

I honestly don't know, but I believe the eye drops will take the pressure off and higher humidity to loosen the passages.
Whatever it is, it is already making changes. Here is Grover tonight after 1 day of eye drops and critical care solution. There is a noticeable difference in the movement and appearance of the eyes. He is a little more energetic.
received_1294065284046521.jpeg
 
jannb said:
Poor little guy. I love veileds and they are one of my favorite species. I see quite a few things I would recommend changing in the way you are keeping him. It's to many for me to list at the moment but here is my blog for how I recommend keeping young veileds. https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...-with-young-veiled-or-panther-chameleons.325/

Also here a good vet hopefully not to far from you with chameleon experience.

Dr. Todd Gray
Arboretum View Animal Hospital
2551 Warrenville Road
Downers Grove, IL 60515
630-963-0424 - phone
630-963-0537 - fax
www.avah.org
Click to expand...

Hi, Grover seems to be doing quite well. I have bought a better mister bottle rather than a standard spray bottle. I switched the bulb to the reptisun 5.0, although it is still the standard bulb rather than a strip bulb. I also purchased a digital infrared thermometer. Do you have any advise on the best way to measure humidity levels?
 
thedoctorswife said:
Hi, Grover seems to be doing quite well. I have bought a better mister bottle rather than a standard spray bottle. I switched the bulb to the reptisun 5.0, although it is still the standard bulb rather than a strip bulb. I also purchased a digital infrared thermometer. Do you have any advise on the best way to measure humidity levels?
Click to expand...

That's good news on Grover. To be honest I don't worried to much about humidity with my veileds. They do not require a high humidity as some species. If you are misting three times a day it will drop in between mist but then go back up. If you use the pothos plant it helps to hold the humidity up longer between mistings.
 
this very weird thing is happening to my chameleon right now he's having issues eating like I've never seen before he's hungry and he's striking his food just fine with his tongue coming out but when he pulls the food back in right before he's about to swallow he spits it back out like if somethings in the way or something is wrong with his tongue does anybody have any advice on what this is ?
 
Excavation ...please start your own thread. It's less confusing.
Please answer the questions in the how to ask for help thread at the top of the health forum so we have more information.
 
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