Liver Problems - outward signs? (long post)

[ataraxia]

if i could find the plant i would use it in the gut load. personally i only use the capsule.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bio-Health-Thistle-450mg-Capsules/dp/B000NRYTZW

http://www.herbs-hands-healing.co.uk/singleherbs/milkthistle.html

 

[Miss Lily]

Thanks for the links. How do you use the capsules as far as chams are concerned? I have this shop in town and their website gives me this info: http://www.hollandandbarrett.com/pages/categories.asp?cid=35&left=1 They also do a liquid form - maybe I could use this in Tommy's dripper water? I know nothing about Milk Thistle though, so I need to read up a bit more I think!

 

[ataraxia]

maybe someone with more experience with this product will chime in. i honestly dont think it will harm them in small amounts but im no vet and would consult one first.

i grind it up in a dry gut load mix.

you should look up sandrchamelons blogs on dry gut load ingredients. i took some of the ingredients within hers and added a few from my own.

alfalfa
oats
pumpkin seed
squash seed
bean mix (northern, black eye pea, kidney, lima, red, lintels and others im sure im forgetting)
dried sea weed
bee pollen
seaseme seeds
peprika
almonds
milk thistle
plain calcium
wolf's berry

 

[houseofchameleons]

Tommy

I am so sorry about tommy. i know from what I went through emeril & his liver & kidney disease that it is a very difficult thing. I too would recommend blood work just to confirm but ultimately if that is what it is you have to consider you alternatives. As you know emeil was everything to me but once I found out it was kidney disease with liver problems I feel I absolutely did the right thing in ending his suffering 7 although it still hurts today it is the grieving process but I could not keep emeril around to suffer just to keep him here for me. I know you will do what is right for the both of you. I take comfort in knowing he is not suffering anymore 7 he let me know when it was time. I have no regrets only the wish that he could have stayed healthy & with me longer.You know how to contact me if you want to talk since I am rarely on here

 

[Miss Lily]

Thank you so much Ginger, I will message you if I need to. I am either taking him this evening or Thursday morning if I can't get there today. He is so immobile now, it's sad to see. I don't want him to suffer longer than he has to and he isn't showing any other signs, like dark skin, sunken eyes or anything, and no pain response ether when touched. He just looks 'exhausted' from the effort it takes to move. Most of them time he just rests in his hammock as he doesn't need to physically hold on to anything in there. You were the inspiration for the hammock, having seen everything you did for Emeril.

 

[SilverDragoness]

Common signs in mammals for liver issues are known as jaundice/icterus basically where the skin or sclera (white part of the eye) look yellow. I agree with the other comments to get bloodwork and would add that potentially radiographs need to be taken. It defiantly could be something else going on as well. SAMe or Milk thistle is used commonly in dogs and cats with liver disease but there have not been any studies in reptiles that I can find.

 

[Miss Lily]

Thanks for your input. I didn't get him there tonight so I'll take him in on Thursday morning as the vet isn't at the office tomorrow.

 

[laurie]

We will all be waiting and hoping for the best. You know I am here for you.

 

[Miss Lily]

Update

Well, I took Tommy to the vets this morning. He didn't think it was a broekn rib or the liver and he also doesn't think there was anything nasty going on either. He did say that getting enough blood from these guys is rather tricky so we decided to xray first to see if that made anything clearer. So, I left my precious boy there for his xrays and the vet said he would phone me when he's done them. I said that if he should find anything really bad then just to let Tommy go now and not drag things out any longer. So I am now waiting for the phone to ring. I hate this part!

 

[laurie]

Oh Tiff, the waiting is horrible. I hope is all turns out with something being found to explain the issue with your sweet man. But if you know it is time then, I am sure Tommy knows you want the best for him. he has had so much love from you since you got him, that counts for the world to me.

 

[Hoj]

wish you and Tommy the best Tiff, waiting is the worst, fingers x'd for Tommy

 

[Miss Lily]

Oh Tiff, the waiting is horrible. I hope is all turns out with something being found to explain the issue with your sweet man. But if you know it is time then, I am sure Tommy knows you want the best for him. he has had so much love from you since you got him, that counts for the world to me.

wish you and Tommy the best Tiff, waiting is the worst, fingers x'd for Tommy

Thank you both! Waiting is tough. I still haven't heard anything.

 

[Miss Lily]

Well, the vet just phoned and Tommy has arthritis in his elbow and a tumour on his liver. It has grown quite quickly and both myself and the vet decided it would be best to say goodbye rather than drag things on for him any longer.

 

[laurie]

All I can say is my love, thoughts and prayers for you. Goodbye and lots of love go with beautiful, wonderful Tommy.

 

[Pilotman800]

Im so sorry. Its so hard to lose one of these guys. Im sure he had a great life while he was with you.

 

[lisagr07]

I'm very sorry Tiff! You were a very good Cham mommy to him and I'm sure he knew it! I feel yyou did the right thing..... No need in letting him suffer and dragging out the unavoidable......
My prayers are with you....

 

[vangarret2000]

d near the end they become weak and start to fall off their branches.

I stumbled on this older thread while searching liver damage.

My vet says my Cham has liver damage but he doesn't know how bad. I took him to the Vet Saturday and he got 3 fluid injections for dehydration. He told me to get him eatting(force feed if neccesary) and give him some Tums twice a day. During the day yesterday he moved some in his tank but ha trouble supporting himself and when he wouldn't move he would mostly let his legs dangle and just let his body balance on the branches. Just before I went to bed I found him on the very bottom of his tank, directly below where he was basking just before his lights went out. I assume he fell once he went to sleep. So this above quote really scared me.

I am supposed to call the vet today to let him know if he is any better and then he would decide if he needs blood work and X-rays to find out more about his liver damage. He said on Saturday there is damage he just doesn't know how bad.

After reading the quote I am wondering if going to the vet can even help or if I would just be spending the hundreds of dollars he is asking for my chameleon to still die?

Reference on my chams current problems of you want more specifics on it.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/help-help-help-89085/index4.html#post834028