New cham owner and cham with leg problem

[ShannonR]

I apologize now to all wonderful cham owners who will probably find this a bit of a train wreck. I was at a show on Saturday and a a couple of friends who worked a booth found one of the chams with a leg that did not appear too good. They asked us if we might be interested in trying to help him. I agreed, obviously that is why I am posting, but I have also never had a cham. (welcome the train wreck) I am trying to research as much as possible and do the best I can, which I normally try to be prior, but here I am. I know it is not a fantastic situation, but I welcome any advice and help.

Chameleon Info:

Your Chameleon - I have no idea. I just figured out he (or she) is a Senegal and I know WC. Maybe 2.5 to 3 inches in body length. I got him on Saturday afternoon.

Handling - I do my best not to handle him at all, but he has not helped. A couple time today during misting he spent the time walking onto to me and refused to get off. (where I did not want to remove him - rather let him get of on something else)

Feeding - I have differents types of feeders - crickets, mealies, supers, dubias. He ate two crickets at the show. Then ate nothing on Sunday (offered crickets). Monday, today he did scarf 4 mealworms from a cup.

Supplements - I have beardies, so I have herptivite and calcium w/ D3, but currently not calciums w/o D3. Have yet to provide him any. I calcium dusted the crickets, which he didn't eat. I didn't dust the mealworms, which of course he ate.

Watering - I hand mist 3-4 times a day. He loves the misting. He seems to give a 'smacking' when he is thirsty. He does not seem to search it out though. I have to bring a leaf to him and squirt it to a drinking fountain basically. Or today he was trying to drink from my finger and the bottle. (prefer not to squirt him in the face)

Fecal Description - He has only defecated once since I have had him - today, Monday. It was solid, urate was white with some mild orange coloration/coating. He has not been tested for parasites yet.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - It is sadly a 10g tank with screen top as that is what I had and there was nothing else at the show. I just bought him the makings of a mesh cage (pvc pipe for frame and soft mesh to wrap it).

Lighting - I have a Reptisun 10.0 - it appears the 5.0 is most commonly used for them. I don't know if the 10.0 will be problematic for him. I have a basking light (40w bulb), but due to the higher temps here I have turned it off when it gets toasty.

Temperature - This is my hardest area. Overnight is drops average of 75, maybe 73. Daytime is 80. (hence why when it gets too warm, basking has to go off) It does get much warmer, but 80 is where I can keep the cool side.

Humidity - A little low likely. Around 60%. I have hydrometers everywhere. It is better around his misting, but I suppose I need something other than my misting since at night I can do anything.

Plants - No live plants currently. Lots of vines and plastic leaves.

Placement - He is on a shelf by a window. It is the coolest place in the quarantine room. I let some light in (no direct). I have cracked the window a bit to help keep it cool, but try to keep it closed enough that it isn't creating any drafts.

Location - North Texas.

Current Problem - The reason we received him is because he wasn't using one of his legs. The left front is quite swollen (mostly in the middle of the leg) and he did not want to use it at all. Sunday the swelling appeared worse at the foot and he just let it dangle when he rested. Today he was gripping and trying to use it and the swelling seems a bit less. I don't know what is wrong with it, if I should do anything, if I should just let him wait and see. Obviously I don't have everything right and perfect and probably more I don't even realize. I just want to give him whatever chance I can.

Here is a picture of him and the difficult leg (taken Sunday). Sorry for the poor cell quality. I try not to disturb him too much.

Thank you for any and all help!

 

[ataraxia]

Hi, Welcome to the forums. I will start that i dont have much experience with senegals but have been around them a bit.

I would research how to care for veiled and base your care around that. Sadly senegals along with many other w/c chameleons but truly more so in senegals. They come in pretty bad shape. This mean a hefty vet bill in most instances. His foot does look swollen and more than likely is infected. He also looks very malnourished. This is common.

I will strongly suggest taking his next feces n for analysis of parasites.
Put him in a shower chamber https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/ataraxia/594-shower-chamber-treatment.html.
Give him natural sunlight.

Some care info.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/ataraxia/400-basic-chameleon-cycle-care-care-sheet.html

 

[Elizadolots]

Hi! You're a nice person for taking on a chameleon you know has a problem. Congratulations for finding this forum so quickly and asking questions. Far from being a train wreck, you've shown yourself to be resourceful and caring.

If the swelling is going down and the foot is working better, I'm almost tempted to think it's a break of some kind. That is also very common.

How sure are you that's a male? I ask because there's a bit of a pooch to the belly. It might just be the weird angle the back leg is at but I just wanted to know that you are sure it's a male.

I think you'd be better off with a 5.0. If that's not in the equation right now, elevate the 10.0 so it's farther from the cage. Hopefully someone here knows the right way to figure that out, but if not, I'd make sure it's at least a foot above that tank.

It's okay to turn the basking bulb off when it's hot. If you don't turn it on for days, it's going to be okay as long as it's warm enough. Just keep the UVB bulb on.

Given that your experiencing heat, I think your biggest problem with the tank is going to be ventilation. Normally that's achieved by offsetting the heat lamp to one side which then pulls the air from the other side. Maybe you can clip a small fan pointing away from the top of the enclosure to pull the air out and away? You don't really want to blow air in, you want to pull air out.

Hopefully you can get him out of the tank quickly.

The best thing you could do would be take him to a vet with chameleon experience.

 

[kinyonga]

Welcome to the forum and the world of chameleons!

It looks like the wrist and foot are infected. To be sure, you will need to take it to a vet. If it is infected, it will need to be cleaned out, the pus sent for a culture and sensitivity test and the chameleon put on a course of antibiotics.

Senegals need to be well watered. I've always used a 5.0 Repti-sun for a source of UVB for Senegals. Its important that you use the phos.-free calcium without D3 at most feedings too.

Good luck with it!

 

[ZuggieTheCham]

Get some repashy all in one buy it online and u don't have to worry about anything else just dust with every feed and he should be okay

 

[ShannonR]

Thank you all for the help.

ataraxia, thank you for those links they were very helpful. I will certainly try the shower thing. The little thing is a mess, so I suppose every day he makes it I am happy. I will certainly get a fecal done.

Elizadolots, you have been very kind. The first thought everyone had was a break. The first swelling shown was at a bump in a mid point of the leg and not so much the foot. However. with the swelling in the foot that swelling it harder to notice. When he sleeps the leg dangles down and I don't know if that might be making the swelling worse. When he gets moving for the day is appears to get a bit better. I guess it could be either a break or infection. (maybe even both) I get hesitant to whisk off to a vet, one I don't have a vet I entirely trust yet and certainly not with chams and two I worry about the stress with the whole thing. It could be also just as bad not to take him - very funky situation.

I can get a 5.0 (certainly easier than the 10.0), may just take a couple days, but I suppose it is better than nothing until then. I want the other cage done by today sometime.

I have no idea if the little one is a he or she, just seemed nicer to say he rather than it. My gut kept saying she, but honestly, no idea. Is there a good way for me to confirm your thoughts?

kinyonga, thank you. I keep jumping back and forth on if to take him. (and who to take him to) I just don't want to wait too long of course. I will have to get the calcium w/o D3 as that is the only one I don't have.

Zuggie, that is interesting. Why the repashy over anything else?

 

[Elizadolots]

From what I can tell, the only way to determine is to look at the base of the tail. The males will have a bulge. If you can get a picture of the base of the tail seen from the side, I'm sure someone with Senegal experience will be able to help.

 

[ZuggieTheCham]

Repashy is an all in one calcium plus powder, just saves all the effort of doing calcium without d3 every feed and with d3 ever 2 weeks or do and multivitamin once a month or so, just makes ur life easier I guess and everyone who has is says it's great ie been using it for 3 months now and my lil guy is doin great

 

[ShannonR]

Zuggie, I think someone actually recommended that to me a while back for something else. Need to go back and look at obviously!

I am quite sure my little one is a she from description. I need to get a good pic, but there is certainly no bulging of any sort.

She still has swelling. She rests is mostly at night, which seems to make the swelling go up. Once she is up and moves around a bit the swelling does go down. She will use the leg, but certainly not as strongly as the others. I have done showers and mistings - she isn't thrilled with the showers and seems to drink more if I assist. I still throw them in now and then.

I think I made the mistake of the one day giving her mealworms as now that is all she will even consider. I keep offering her other things with zero interest. Normally I would wait until she got hungry enough to eat them, but I am bit worried she does not have enough body mass along with trying to heal to do something like that. I don't know how much harm I am doing by giving into her wants of mealies. I do have some Carnivore Care if that is something that can be considered for her to boost her up?

Otherwise she looks OK. Rests and then takes off around her area. I open the tank to let her around the top - she enjoy the lip area a lot.

Her new screen cage is in the works. I didn't have enough screen material, so I have to get more to completely finish it. It may be a bit too big (3'x2'x2' whoops), but hopefully it will be good?

Pic of her from yesterday (got her from the not bad foot side of course) :

 

[Elizadolots]

See if you can get some superworms. They are very much like mealworms but better from a nutrition standpoint. If she likes mealworms, she might like superworms. You should gut load them and dust them the same way you would crickets. Another good worm option you can often get at the pet store is phoenix worms (also called Calci worms or Repti worms). They are "larvae" worms, so a little CSI looking, but high in calcium and really wiggly.

Better worm options would be silkworms and or hornworms, but those are probably things you'll need to order online.

The second picture doesn't look "poochy" like the first, which is good. I was afraid you were going to be dealing with eggs soon in addition to the swollen foot.

Ultimately she will lay eggs, possibly sooner rather than later, so you'll want to look into what needs to be done. Have you gotten your big cage yet? If it's not complete, or you haven't moved her into it, you should incorporate a laying bin for her use.

While she is definitely thin, she's not scary skinny. They aren't really heavy bodied chameleons (like a panther or veiled). It's normal to be able to see their ribs, even on an overweight animal you'd see those.

 

[ShannonR]

I breed supers so they are not a problem. Their breeding isn't super prolific yet so I don't always have a great selection of small ones, but I quickly found a couple and she gobbled those no problem. (happy she is eating whatever it is really) I get hornworms for my beardies occasionally so that can certainly be done. I have gotten silks before, for whatever reason I chose some time when they seemed to be sold out constantly so I didn't pursue them much. Haven't tried the phoenix worms, but they are easy to come by so worth a shot.

And oh dear I read something about the eggs, but didn't even really connect it I guess. Is there a good link or place that shows what I need to make it and what I need to do? I will go searching.

He new cage is not done, I underestimated how much screen I needed. So, I will be getting the screen tomorrow. (and some more PVC because I am going to change up my idea a bit while I am at it) So it should be done tomorrow for her to go in Saturday. Much longer than I want and wanted, but she spend most of her time out of her tank currently. (I open the top in the morning and allow her to roam the top of the tank and a few things that stick off - she cant get anywhere, but seems good for her) Makes me less worried.

 

[cody55]

hind legs problem

Hey my chameleon is 5 or 6 months old its a male, and his name is steve. Hes healthy but about 4 days ago i came home and he was upside down. I dont know how long he was like it but he couldnt get up and when he did he would just fall back down. His tail was stuck after that he was very stressed and started shedding alot. and his both hind legs looked injured. Because he had a hard time moving them in certain directions. His grip is still good but its almost like he stretch or strained a muscle and it hurts to move. By the way he is making improvement. But please help.

 

[ShannonR]

Hey Cody. You might get a better response if you create your own thread and use the 'how to ask for help' sticky. This is what I have done and everyone has been a great help so far. Good luck with your cham.

 

[Elizadolots]

cody, Shannon's right. You should start your own thread. It gets confusing to be discussing more than one chameleon in a thread.

Shannon, I'm sorry, I forgot you are a reptile person! That makes it much better, obviously. For one animal, ordering online can be an issue but if you can spread the food around amongst a group of animals it becomes more worthwhile.

You should read Kinyonga's blog on keeping females. This is about veileds but from what I've read the care of Senegals and veileds is not that overpowerlingly different. Also, the basic idea is explained: you don't want to over feed them or keep them too warm. Always come up a bit short...that will fool their bodies into thinking it's not a good time to make eggs.

As you are making the enclosure, maybe you can design it to incorporate the laying bin? The normal recommendation is an opaque bin/box/container that is roughly 12 inches square. If the cage is big enough, it can just sit on the bottom. We've seen people make the bottom so it can be opened, giving access to a bin below. It's important that there be easy access to the bin. Minimally, one vine should drop right onto it, but I think having multiple climbing paths leading to it would be better.

 

[ShannonR]

No a problem at all! Yes, having the multiple mouths to feed make it better for ordering and they is always someone wanting something or who will take it is someone just 'isn't in the mood'. (of course more mouths... mean more mouths )

I am excited to say I have finished her new enclosure and she is in it. I have no idea how good or bad it is. It is 3'x2'x2'. Bit overkill for her size, but hopefully that won't cause her issues. I haven't got the laying bin yet. I completely blanked while I was at the store and could have gotten something. I do have a vine prepared to lead into it and there is plenty of space for one.

Here is a picture (another terrible one from the phone) of the new home:

I don't have anything live, I seem to have a nonexistent green thumb. I don't know if I still need to give more cover though. (looks so bare looking at the pic) She is in there, put herself at the top left front corner in that bit of greenery. Any thoughts are great I just tried to put what I had in there. (seems I have collected the stuff) I will post this in the other section for more thoughts too.

 

[Elizadolots]

If you can find a big pothos, one that has grown some lengthy vines, I recommend getting it and putting it in. All plants hate me and die....but pothos seem to thrive on chameleon poop and water. You can pin the vines to the walls of the cage to give additional climbing and cover options. As the plant grows, it will create a jungle gym of vines for your chameleon. They're edible too, which is a plus. I do think you need to get some more foliage in there and I really recommend going live. It helps so much with humidity issues.

Is that a metal, plastic of fabric screen? All work, I'm just wondering from an "advice" standpoint.

What's great about those PVC frames (I have them) is that you can easily hang things by simply looping around 2 or 3 or 4 of the tubes.

I'm a little concerned because it looks like there is a gap at the top. I'm afraid your feeders are going to be evacuating. Are you going to cup feed her? You might want to considering the potential escape opportunity.

Eventually she's probably going to walk on the ceiling (maybe not soon given her leg issue) so the light on the cage concerns me a bit. I think you need to get in there and feel that part of the cage after the light has been on for a few hours. Is it too hot to the touch? If so, you might need to elevate the light a few inches. If you can't hang it, you can just put something (wooden blocks, for example) on the cage then set the light on the blocks.

 

[ShannonR]

I will look into pothos as long as I am unlikely to kill it . Would a typical Home Depot gardening center have them or do I need to go to an actual garden dedicated store? (I like in the middle of nowhere so it help to get an idea before setting off on the long journey!)

The screen is plastic coated metal. Very fabric like in flexibility though. No idea if it is great to use, but it is specifically pet window screening. It seems really nice.

I think the gaps you may be seeing in the picture are bits of PVC? I know there are none there, however there are some around the door for sure. I do cup feed her, with her leg she really isn't in the best shape to be chasing down things. She seems to do best cup feeding also. If I start going to where thing might be getting around the enclosure I will probably tighten up security of the gaps.

I did completely forget to mention the light. I set it up there purely for the picture as there wasn't enough light otherwise. You are right I will not be leaving that up there, whether it gets to hot or not I really have no desire to take the risk. It usually is unnecessary to have it on the temps are good, but I have it just in case I do need it. (where when it is on it will not be sitting on the top)

 

[Elizadolots]

Sounds good. I don't see any reason to stop with cup feeding. It lets you know for sure what she's eaten. That's huge. You should check around for options on that, there have been some really great ones built from plastic milk bottles. Here's one:https://www.chameleonforums.com/custom-made-cricket-feeder-80015/ (I let my feeders go free...and then worry, worry, worry!)

That pet screening is fabulous. When my daughter moves out I'm co-opting her room for a chameleon room and will be building bigger cages to house bigger animals....and that's what I will be using. If you have left over scraps, you can use them in constructing your feeder cup.

You should be able to find a Pothos. I have 2. One is from the local "produce market" (sort of a farmer's outlet) and the other is from WalMart. If there are "farmer's markets" around you, check there. I'll try to take a picture tomorrow to show you. In one cage, I think 98% of the climbing opportunities are the pothos plant (my chameleons are smaller, my cages are smaller).

How is she doing? I bet she's loving being able to hide from you in her new cage.

 

[Elizadolots]

Okay, here's my "big guy"'s cage...he's really small.

 

[ShannonR]

That feeder looks great. With the hope she gets better I will have to try something like that. Right now she is is quite catered to making sure she stays as comfortable as possible. :x

She certainly has enjoyed finding the highest spot and snugging herself into hiding. She has not moved much since I put her in there, but with all the changes I don't blame her. Going to give her a bit to settle - again. She seems to find security with her hiding areas though.

Thank you for the picture, it looks quite comfy and enjoyable in that cage! I am sure he adores it in there. I do hope mine gets there soon. I just picked up two Pothos today at the store, biggest ones I could find. They have some growing to do, but it does seem to help. I am sure it still isn't perfect, but they do help.

Here is it updated with the pothos (also moved the vines up a bit on another suggestion)