New chameleon owner I rescued him in bad shape HELP ME!

kinyonga said:
Are the meds given orally? Regarding keeping the stress as low as possible…if the meds are oral, try getting the chameleon drinking from a dripper and as the mouth is opening and closing to drink, slip/ease the meds in with a dropper or needleless syringe. Insects can also be given while he’s drinking to ease the stress.

What is the form of vitamin A the chameleon is being given? PrEformed (retinol) or prOformed (beta carotene)?

@absolutbill said…”There are ebbs and flows while caring for sick chameleons”…this is quite true IMHO…not only with chameleons but many other reptiles too. Sometimes it’s hard to tell if they are “accepting” your help or giving up.

Regarding the dropping..I would look at it like more of a trying to escape/get away from you thing…not a suicide attempt.

Regarding feeding him…this might help…
https://www.adcham.com/html/husbandry/bug-juice.html

Fingers crossed for him!
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everything being given to him is syringe including food/water. he is not opening his mouth to drink from a dripper so that isnt an option unfortunately. He is on compounded vitamin A once a week. calcium once a day and gabapentin once a day for 14 days and 1ml of the EmerAid Intensive Care Carnivore until cleared by the vet to try feeders again. Which wont happen till he is strong enough to have his eyes flushed. As of right now he cant see to eat. Before he would open his mouth out of anger and i would pop bugs/bug juice in there but hes just not doing that anymore. He did snap at my the other day but not like he was. he is very stressed out with everything. its heart breaking cause im trying so hard to save him so he can experience life in a healthy environment
 
So how does he drink??
What is compounded vitamin A???
So, he gets no vitamin/mineral supplements that include D3 and prEformed vitamin A twice a month?

What are they giving the gabapentin for?
 
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kinyonga said:
So how does he drink??
What is compounded vitamin A???
So, he gets no vitamin/mineral supplements that include D3 and prEformed vitamin A twice a month?
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If hes been drinking i am unsure. from my understanding they are secret drinkers. he has a drip system and gets misted in the am and pm. He is a rescue. He came to me in bad shape to begin with. I was making sure that i gave him water when i able to get live bugs in him but if he was drinking on his own unsure and the vet also suspects that he was having issues with as well. He thinks his in kidney failure we are going to attempt blood work in 2 weeks in hope that the meds and medicine got him stronger by then. Right now his food does get mixed with water. after i give it to him i do give him water to help wash it all down.
 
If the vitamin A is from a prEformed source, once a week could be too often depending on the dose. Your information isn’t helping me because it’s not giving me enough to go on. I’m not a vet, BTW…I speak from over 30 years of experience with chameleons and many other reptiles, and from what I’ve learned through my association with vets and studies, books, etc that I’ve read.
 
kinyonga said:
If the vitamin A is from a prEformed source, once a week could be too often depending on the dose. Your information isn’t helping me because it’s not giving me enough to go on. I’m not a vet, BTW…I speak from over 30 years of experience with chameleons and many other reptiles, and from what I’ve learned through my association with vets and studies, books, etc that I’ve read.
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Vitamin A 2000 IU/mL Give 0.36 ml by mouth every 7 days for 4 weeks. This is a compounded medication. This is what the vet gave me and prescribed him. He is also a chameleon keeper and I trust what he has chose to do for beldar moving forward. He is a vet that specializes in reptiles and other exotic animals. He was very patient and informative and answered everything i asked while showing me where to find things for him locally in my location. Im assuming the EmerAid Intensive Care Carnivore also has a source of vitamin A in it as well. His eyes are junky and wont open. Hes to weak to have them flushed when we went. This was the best course of action moving forwarded with the condition that he is in. IM trying to undo months of neglect i did not inflict om him.
 
kinyonga said:
So how does he drink??
What is compounded vitamin A???
So, he gets no vitamin/mineral supplements that include D3 and prEformed vitamin A twice a month?

What are they giving the gabapentin for?
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a compounded medication was so here's another explanation-A compound medication is a medication that is created by mixing, combining, or altering ingredients to meet the needs of a specific patient. The VET specially mixed ingredients to reach the amount of vitamin A my chameleon specially needed because he has been getting none. He gets Vitamin A 2000 IU/mL Give 0.36 ml by mouth every 7 days for 4 weeks. so once a week for a month. As for the drinking comment i will address that again cause i honestly dont know how i could of been anymore clear about that..... from what ive learned chameleons are secret drinkers. he gets misted twice a day for 2-3 mins there for a minute i did afternoon mist as well. he also has a drip system set up. if he is drinking on his own i cant be sure of that.my camera is good but not that good that i have on him its juts a blink system. ive been hand watering him. as the vet suspects that he is either not drinking on his own due to not seeing or not drinking enough or hes so sick that he cant. . his EmerAid Intensive Care Carnivore is also mixed with water. and again ive been hand watering him. As for the vitamins i also addressed that to he is a CRITCAIL patient everything he is getting is PRESCRIBED cause he is so sick including his food supplement EmerAid Intensive Care Carnivore. here are the ingredients of the EmerAid Intensive Care Carnivore he gets once a day to answer the vitamins question again-
The ingredients in EmerAid Intensive Care Carnivore include:


  • Protein: Hydrolyzed soy protein, an essential amino acid


  • Fats: Corn oil, canola oil, and omega-3 and omega-6 polyunsaturated fatty acids


  • Carbohydrates: Corn syrup solids and glucose syrup solids


  • Fiber: Cellulose


  • Vitamins: Vitamins A, C, D3, E, niacin, B12, biotin, folic acid, and ascorbic acid


  • Minerals: Zinc oxide, copper sulfate, manganese oxide, calcium dipantothenate, and sodium selenite


  • Other: DL-methionine, L-lysine, L-cysteine, taurine, tryptophan, citric acid, mixed tocopherols, and ethoxyquin
EmerAid Intensive Care Carnivore is a therapeutic diet that can be used as a sole or partial source of nutrition for debilitated, cachectic, or stressed patients. It can be mixed with water and fed by tube, gavage, or syringe.

And the gabapentin is for pain/inflammation as it is suspected he has rib fractures cause they way they look and for his swelling in his legs.
 
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Pic of baldar after meds food and water so angry colors. He did snap at me tho I always take that as a good sign 🤷🏼‍♀️🤣
 

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I’m getting nowhere with this by asking you what form the vitamin A is in…and believe me, the form of vitamin A is important…so we will try it another way…
There are two forms of vitamin A …prEformed and prOformed.

PrEformed is ready to go…able to be used by the chameleon without it being changed to another form of vitamin A by the chameleon before it’s useful. It’s fat soluble which means the chameleon will store what isn’t used/needed in the chameleon’s body…so it can build up and cause healthy issues. Look for words like retinol, retinal, retinoic acid, etc.

PrOformed vitamin a comes from carotenoids…so from fruits, veggies, greens and is not ready to go in the body…the body has to convert it into a useful form but must be converted into the useful form. The good thing about it is 5at it does not build up in the body because it’s converted as needed….but…the other thing is that it’s thought that chameleons either can not convert it or cannot convert it efficiently… so it’s not of much use to them.

Not only do the chameleons need the right vitamin A, it needs to be in a balance with the vitamin D3 so that it won’t cause health issues.

Now, vitamin D3 comes to the chameleon in two ways too…preformed…ready to go…builds up in the system, if given too much. This comes in the powders we use to dust the insects with. D3 from supplements is also fat soluble and can be stored in the body leading to health issues.

Then, there is the form that the body converts as needed and doesn’t usually cause any problems because it comes from the sun or the UVB bulbs we use on the cage, and as long as the chameleon can move in and out of the shade/light as desired it shouldn’t overdose.

Vitamin D plays an important part in bone health…and vitamin A is important in many systems too…so they all need to be in a balance.

Here are some articles that you might like to read…
http://www.chameleonnews.com/07FebWheelock.html
http://www.chameleonnews.com/03JanDonoghue.html
 
kinyonga said:
I’m getting nowhere with this by asking you what form the vitamin A is in…and believe me, the form of vitamin A is important…so we will try it another way…
There are two forms of vitamin A …prEformed and prOformed.

PrEformed is ready to go…able to be used by the chameleon without it being changed to another form of vitamin A by the chameleon before it’s useful. It’s fat soluble which means the chameleon will store what isn’t used/needed in the chameleon’s body…so it can build up and cause healthy issues. Look for words like retinol, retinal, retinoic acid, etc.

PrOformed vitamin a comes from carotenoids…so from fruits, veggies, greens and is not ready to go in the body…the body has to convert it into a useful form but must be converted into the useful form. The good thing about it is 5at it does not build up in the body because it’s converted as needed….but…the other thing is that it’s thought that chameleons either can not convert it or cannot convert it efficiently… so it’s not of much use to them.

Not only do the chameleons need the right vitamin A, it needs to be in a balance with the vitamin D3 so that it won’t cause health issues.

Now, vitamin D3 comes to the chameleon in two ways too…preformed…ready to go…builds up in the system, if given too much. This comes in the powders we use to dust the insects with. D3 from supplements is also fat soluble and can be stored in the body leading to health issues.

Then, there is the form that the body converts as needed and doesn’t usually cause any problems because it comes from the sun or the UVB bulbs we use on the cage, and as long as the chameleon can move in and out of the shade/light as desired it shouldn’t overdose.

Vitamin D plays an important part in bone health…and vitamin A is important in many systems too…so they all need to be in a balance.

Here are some articles that you might like to read…
http://www.chameleonnews.com/07FebWheelock.html
http://www.chameleonnews.com/03JanDonoghue.html
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I’m going to follow my veterinarians medical advice while he is an critical condition. Thank you for your input.
 
baldarthecham said:
I’m going to follow my veterinarians medical advice while he is a critical condition. Thank you for your input.
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I’m guessing that your vet didn’t specify which type of vitamin A was in the compound he gave you. That’s no fault of yours, but it would be very useful to know exactly which one it is. Your vet (hopefully) should know the difference between the two and not give you preformed, which is harmful if overdone. However, we’ve all pretty much learned never to take anything for granted with our vets. They are human and can make mistakes like the rest of us.
How is Baldar today? That eye does not look very good at all. The bottom looks swollen and discolored. :( How does the other eye look? Is he still hissing at you? I hope so.
 
MissSkittles said:
I’m guessing that your vet didn’t specify which type of vitamin A was in the compound he gave you. That’s no fault of yours, but it would be very useful to know exactly which one it is. Your vet (hopefully) should know the difference between the two and not give you preformed, which is harmful if overdone. However, we’ve all pretty much learned never to take anything for granted with our vets. They are human and can make mistakes like the rest of us.
How is Baldar today? That eye does not look very good at all. The bottom looks swollen and discolored. :( How does the other eye look? Is he still hissing at you? I hope so.
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His one eye is OK that eye you’re speaking of is a little swollen and it’s actually gunky now. He’s been rubbing it on stuff. I didn’t notice the discoloration till now. He changes color so much when he’s angry at me I don’t really know what his normal is or what normal is honestly . All I know is he’s not gray anymore. I will send a email with a picture to the vet tomorrow to make sure we don’t need to come in earlier. Hopefully when we go back to the vet, they’ll be able to rinse them and I’ll be able to start putting medicine on them or something. Here is a picture of the vitamin A medicine. This is all the information I have on it. He hisses lightly, but he is definitely snapping. Didn’t go on the bottom at all today. He didn’t snap at me today tho seems to be in every other thing. Here’s a picture of him before I made him angry with meds food and water.
 

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That’s good that he didn’t go down to the bottom today and is still spicy. Healthy relaxed adult male veileds are usually kind of a blah coloration…a grey ish green. When excited, mad, stressed, asleep is when they put on the big beautiful colors. I think younger ones are brighter too. Except for that eye, he’s looking good. 💗
 
MissSkittles said:
That’s good that he didn’t go down to the bottom today and is still spicy. Healthy relaxed adult male veileds are usually kind of a blah coloration…a grey ish green. When excited, mad, stressed, asleep is when they put on the big beautiful colors. I think younger ones are brighter too. Except for that eye, he’s looking good. 💗
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Thank you for that! I just don’t know what to look for cause I’ve never seen his normal or healthy self. He didn’t go to the bottom again last night good sign cause he was pretty upset with me last night. Here’s his morning pics. I’ll let you guys know what vet says about the eye and vitamin A
 

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