No point in buying from breeders

[sandrachameleon]

Your male (which I understand you to have said was bought at an expo and may have been wc or ch) is very nice looking, but I think it is probably not a pure ambilobe. At least it doesnt conform to the norms we expect from that local. It may be a cross? Perhaps Ambanja cross.

you may have trouble creating a believable "new line" of Ambilobe using a male with a questionable local and an unproven wc female (no one knows for sure what a wc female is until after at least one cluch has grown to full colour with a known pure male).

You might make some really distinctive and desireable crosses though.

 

[Chamlo]

Kind of but not really ... my veileds last clutch was 51 eggs and my panther laid 28. It will cost more to raise the veileds as there are more mouths to feed and they also grow faster and eat more ...

It cost more to buy the panthers but I also just have spent $150 on my egg-bound female veiled and if the treatment doesn't work we will be spending more.

At the rate I am going I will be selling my veileds for $300 and the panthers for $50 ! At least that is what I would need to do to make any profit. I've never even come close to breaking even though ... I just enjoy keeping and raising them.

I do agree with the OP on some things though. There is negativity anytime someone does something different than what is parroted back and forth on here and questions don't always get answered as much as finances and motivation gets questioned. There is a lot of good information here but you really need to wade through some crap sometimes to get to it.

I'd really like a $50 panther I want a male but can't afford one for 300

 

[thephotoprincess]

I'd really like a $50 panther I want a male but can't afford one for 300

You can often find a used one for less - there are many panthers in the classifieds on this forum and even check your local Craigslist. Since people tend to rehome them when they realize how much work they are or their life changes the chameleons tend to be older and have good coloring already. Definitely more than $50 but you can get a decent deal.

 

[maxttu]

You can often find a used one for less - there are many panthers in the classifieds on this forum and even check your local Craigslist. Since people tend to rehome them when they realize how much work they are or their life changes the chameleons tend to be older and have good coloring already. Definitely more than $50 but you can get a decent deal.

I prefer Certified Pre-owned...

 

[chamguy]

Sorry but the only time that i really answer to these posts is when im at work and have 10 hours of free time to sit online. When i get out the last thing i do is sit at home and take pictures so i can prove you guys wrong. like i said ill get pictures up as soon as i can. I just got a reply from the owner of his cham today so thats y i posted it. Nice to know im right and you guys are wrong.

Sounds like it turned out to be the other way around.


Awsome colors btw. He shows a variety that alot of others do not have.

 

[lysinlight87]

asked an question then changed my mind

 

[susannuh]

I have one feeling on my mind after reading this...

 

[twatts704]

I have one feeling on my mind after reading this...

Lmfao I read literally every reply and laughed so hard when I saw this because this was my exact thoughts!

 

[lysinlight87]

I have one feeling on my mind after reading this...

lol agreed, that's why I revoked my question

 

[Chamlo]

You can often find a used one for less - there are many panthers in the classifieds on this forum and even check your local Craigslist. Since people tend to rehome them when they realize how much work they are or their life changes the chameleons tend to be older and have good coloring already. Definitely more than $50 but you can get a decent deal.

Well when I look in the classifieds people love their chams. Most of the panthers are like 250 - 450 still crazy price

 

[Hoj]

Maybe someone could take the time to breed some Parsons and sell em to me for like $100
I would really apprechiate it

 

[Chamlo]

Maybe someone could take the time to breed some Parsons and sell em to me for like $100
I would really apprechiate it

That'd be amazing

 

[Ulrich]

Maybe someone could take the time to breed some Parsons and sell em to me for like $100
I would really apprechiate it

I'll take two for 50.

 

[Trillian]

If anyone has unwanted Parsons, I'm happy to adopt them for free.

 

[Chamlo]

If anyone has unwanted Parsons, I'm happy to adopt them for free.

Same here... Just need a set up

 

[JimO]

I'm fairly new to chameleon breeding but not new to reality. I'm just seeing if I'm not the only one that doesn't hype over buying baby chams for outrageous prices like 275$ plus shipping just because some guy in Cali or Florida is the one producing it. They make is seem like their chameleons are so special because they came from a certain line. I understand that you look at the sire and you want an exact replica of that cham. When more than often i seen pics of grown up babies from name brand breeders that don't look that great at all. That is why I started off with 1.2 wild caught ambilobes for my breeding project to produce my own unique blood line. Also I feel that as friendly as everyone seems on here complementing on your chams, some individuals hate to see others have success is breeding and go on and on about how hard it is, how much it costs etc. If anyone feels the same please share.

P.S if you think im bashing. I am.

To me a healthy chameleon is a healthy chameleon no matter who you get it from. Power to the little guy.

Let me give you the perspective of someone who has kept and bred herps for over 30 years but is buying his first chameleon. I currently keep and breed dart frogs, so I have some understanding of what it takes to breed and sell animals. Generally speaking, you have two types of people offerring CB animals for sale - those who do it as a hobby only and those who rely on the income to support themselves. Depending on your personal financial situation, you can afford to sell hobby animals for whatever you like. Rarely do hobbyists go to the trouble to calculate what investment they've made in each offspring to determine a fair price. They just sell at or slightly below the going price. Those who do it full time are operating a business. Some care about the animals and others just do it for the money.

The price of animals is pretty much determined by the market. Regardless of what it costs to raise a given animal, you can only charge what the market will bear. Panther chameleons cost more because people like them and are willing to pay more. It's really that simple.

For someone like me, who wants a quality animal from someone who has experience keeping and breeding them, you aren't making a very convincing argument for your assertion in the title of this thread. In fact, your comments have given me confidence that I've made the right decision buying mine from an established breeder. You have stated several things that would give me concern - 1) your animals are wild caught, so there is no information on their genetic history; 2) you've never bred chameleons before (really?); 3) you claim in one post to have kept reptiles since you were in diapers, but given that you are 23, your real experience, unless you are an extraordinary individual (which you might well be), is probably the equivalent of only a few years of relevent experience. I used to catch anoles and fence lizards and toss them in an aquarium until they escaped or starved, but I was 8 years old, so that in no way is "experience" relevent to breeding chameleons; 4) the price you claim that you'll offer 2-month-old female babies for ($150) isn't that much less than prices offered by breeders. You can easily find females from parents who aren't that colorful for $200 on sale. Also, the breeders I've talked to don't sell babies until they are at least 3 months old. So, you want me to pay $150 for a baby chameleon in light of items 1) through 3) above and consider a $50 "discount" something earth shattering? Nah.

What happens after you've had a couple of animals that arrive dead? It happens fairly often despite the quality of the packing job. Will you replace the animals and absorb the additional shipping costs? If so, then suddenly, you'll have to sell one just to break even and you are then down three or four animals at break even. What if someone isn't satisfied and wants to ship it back with a full refund? These things happen all the time. As a buyer, I know that the established breeder will be around next week, but many of the "little guys" won't. It happens a lot in the dart frog business.

Then you have the sudden loss of a breeder or a disease that wipes out an entire batch of eggs. Or, babies are born with calcium deficiency, they won't eat, and then you have to spend hundreds at the vet to correct these problems, etc., etc.

If you are independently wealthy and want to offer very inexpensive baby chameleons to people regardless of cost, then more power to you. But, if you're simply trying to convince folks that it's a better idea to buy from you (when you get healthy babies) than from established breeders, well, you haven't convinced me. Not everyone wants the cheapest animal they can get.

 

[Chuck G]

How in the world did I miss this wonderful thread?

 

[KarmaChameleon1337]

How in the world did I miss this wonderful thread?

I have no idea but you have a LOT of reading ahead of you. Have fun.

 

[cosmic charlie]

How in the world did I miss this wonderful thread?

lol. don't you just love troll threads!

 

[DavidBuchan]

Damn that was annoying. Here is my third post on the matter. may it be as annoying to you as it should be lol - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XlqudTC--I