No point in buying from breeders

[Trillian]

Over-tired and annoying again! Sorry!

 

[bluewuta]

Kind of but not really ... my veileds last clutch was 51 eggs and my panther laid 28. It will cost more to raise the veileds as there are more mouths to feed and they also grow faster and eat more ...

It cost more to buy the panthers but I also just have spent $150 on my egg-bound female veiled and if the treatment doesn't work we will be spending more.

At the rate I am going I will be selling my veileds for $300 and the panthers for $50 ! At least that is what I would need to do to make any profit. I've never even come close to breaking even though ... I just enjoy keeping and raising them.

I do agree with the OP on some things though. There is negativity anytime someone does something different than what is parroted back and forth on here and questions don't always get answered as much as finances and motivation gets questioned. There is a lot of good information here but you really need to wade through some crap sometimes to get to it.

I am in full agreement with this comment. I raise Jacksons, mellers senegals and veiled and dont do it to sell them but if I did i would take about the same to raise the Senegals and the Veileds. Yet Veileds sell for twice or three times and what I sold my captive bred senegals for and there are fewer of them then there are cb veileds by far. So there is some really pricing discrepancies with different breeds but I would just say its called Business or Supply and demand. But I would suggest while one types is popular one minute it may change and the price could fall so get it while you can. I posted that I raised and bred some cb Senegals and at first all I got was some comments from people saying its not possible or its not right, they dont breed in captivity. They is always something new everyone here can learn so dont just take everything here as the truth but there is a lot of good advice for sure. Just be careful of those with opinions and not suggestions or truths.

 

[Seeco]

na, that's a swamp monster.

Naw, thats a Beholder.

I think that right off the bat this thread went the wrong way and as a knee jerk reaction Reefer has just dug his hole deeper rather than clarify what he meant. Lets all go back to the first post -- I think he was really just trying to say that people should support small time breeders more or equally to the big name guys.

 

[AllFallDown]

naw, thats a beholder.

finally!!!

 

[Seeco]

lol you are welcome.

 

[AllFallDown]

Beholder:

Anyone here play DDO? I play an Elven pale master. Always fun to charm the beholders. I totally freaked a friend of mine out one night when we were doing a guild run.

he he he...

This 12:37am thread jacking has been brought to you by AllFallDown...

 

[Solid Snake]

I think that right off the bat this thread went the wrong way and as a knee jerk reaction Reefer has just dug his hole deeper rather than clarify what he meant. Lets all go back to the first post -- I think he was really just trying to say that people should support small time breeders more or equally to the big name guys.

Thats not what he said though, even if that was his original intent.

I'm fairly new to chameleon breeding but not new to reality. I'm just seeing if I'm not the only one that doesn't hype over buying baby chams for outrageous prices like 275$ plus shipping just because some guy in Cali or Florida is the one producing it. They make is seem like their chameleons are so special because they came from a certain line. I understand that you look at the sire and you want an exact replica of that cham. When more than often i seen pics of grown up babies from name brand breeders that don't look that great at all. That is why I started off with 1.2 wild caught ambilobes for my breeding project to produce my own unique blood line. Also I feel that as friendly as everyone seems on here complementing on your chams, some individuals hate to see others have success is breeding and go on and on about how hard it is, how much it costs etc. If anyone feels the same please share.

P.S if you think im bashing. I am.

To me a healthy chameleon is a healthy chameleon no matter who you get it from. Power to the little guy.

He is bashing the pricing of chameleons, especially the bigger, more popular breeders.

He did have some good points leak out:

To me a healthy chameleon is a healthy chameleon no matter who you get it from. Power to the little guy.

From a logical standpoint, you want to get the most for your time and money. So you dont want to buy an animal that you expect to have issues with. So you look for a healthy animal, maybe even with a guarantee.

Now there are complications with wild caught chameleons, that you just dont have as often with captive bred animals. Thats obvious to anyone who reads chameleon forums. You see that more often, wild caught chameleons have the health issues, more often have to be terminated, and more often perish. So, while in some extenuating circumstances it may be more desirable to get a wild caught animal, more people would rather pull less animals from the wild, and have the piece of mind that the animal is healthy.
There are plenty of smaller breeders that can provide excellent, and likely better quality animals than the big breeders, but the bigger guys didnt get big by not doing a decent job Im sure.

I can understand a somewhat average price tag of $200-$600 for these animals. Not only are they somewhat pricey to upkeep, they are a real pain in the ass to care for properly.

People are going to charge what they think an animals worth/what they think they can get out of you. If you want the animal you will buy it, if you dont then you wont.

The only way the price is going to go down, is if there is a massive influx of new people that come into, and stick with the hobby.

 

[reefercheefer]

I found a cham that looks identical to the one i own. The owner got it from suzi at Cali chams and he is an ambilobe. The third picture looks exactly like my cham. https://www.chameleonforums.com/6-month-old-male-ambilobe-83536/

 

[Olimpia]

I found a cham that looks identical to the one i own. The owner got it from suzi at Cali chams and he is an ambilobe. The third picture looks exactly like my cham. https://www.chameleonforums.com/6-month-old-male-ambilobe-83536/

Ok, now show us a photo of your guy where he looks exactly like that panther. Because in the two that we've seen, your animal looks nothing like the one that came from Suzi.

 

[Kmw]

Another thing I would pay breeders big money for is getting pictures of the actual chameleons i would be getting, or the sire. Not just "Here's one i found that looks like it!"

 

[chamguy]

I like how we are sent to "other'' posts that have the chameleon's picture there. Post some pics directly to this thread, is it that hard to do????????

 

[djfishygillz]

Bash away. Ive seen alot of ppl come on this site and other sites and make uneducated statements like this. After you have hatched a clutch yourself & spent 3 or 4 months raising the babies calculate your total costs associated with the project. Even at $250-300 per cham that greedy breeder your bashing isnt making much per cham. Also that damn greedy breeder has females in that clutch that have to be sold. They are sold for less $$$ and they are harder to sell period. Since not eveyone wants girls that greedy breeder will have to feed & care for them til they can find good homes for them. Theres more than just feeding costs think about enclosures that have to be purchased or built, lighting costs, & cage furniture.

Also if you are a breeder the main cost is TIME.

Time is so valuable that is where I lose the most money honestly. But yes I agree with what you are saying of course TPM. I just think time is the most valuable part. Spending hours a day for years raising the adults, time raising the babies, driving to get food, time spent research.

So much time is put into these guys if you feel you want to price 275 then by all means price that if the supply and demand equal out to that.

 

[djfishygillz]

The OP's approach did nothing to impress me or win over my support. Actually all it did was put an asterix in my mind that I would never want to buy a cham from him. /shrug

Cost of cham babies = profit margin you want to place on the sale + cost of feeding + utilities used + equipment/supplies + (sum of your time to hatch/care for the cham's X what is your time worth) *excluding the cost of any vet visits*

BTW: 50k a year is not a lot of money and hardly warrants mentioning it in a post none the less. But I guess to someone of a relatively young age it may seem impressive. My 5yr old gets that way over a dollar also.

If your looking to alienate the community and turn people off and raise questions about your breeding ethics, SUCCESS! Had you choose your delivery method more and put more thought into the topic and arguments from both sides you may not off come off as arrogant and annoying as you did.

Sorry this post is old but you make my day Wykd so many times.

 

[reefercheefer]

Sorry but the only time that i really answer to these posts is when im at work and have 10 hours of free time to sit online. When i get out the last thing i do is sit at home and take pictures so i can prove you guys wrong. like i said ill get pictures up as soon as i can. I just got a reply from the owner of his cham today so thats y i posted it. Nice to know im right and you guys are wrong.

 

[djfishygillz]

na, that's a swamp monster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefercheefer
you sporting a troll as your avatar

I am so happy that you make the distinction between a troll and a swamp monster. I can't stop laughing.

 

[camaleonte82]

Sorry but the only time that i really answer to these posts is when im at work and have 10 hours of free time to sit online. When i get out the last thing i do is sit at home and take pictures so i can prove you guys wrong. like i said ill get pictures up as soon as i can. I just got a reply from the owner of his cham today so thats y i posted it. Nice to know im right and you guys are wrong.

you sound like my 6yo niece. whenever she is back into a corner for lying her final defense is to say "i'm right and your wrong and your just mad."

 

[Goggles]

Sorry but the only time that i really answer to these posts is when im at work and have 10 hours of free time to sit online. When i get out the last thing i do is sit at home and take pictures so i can prove you guys wrong. like i said ill get pictures up as soon as i can. I just got a reply from the owner of his cham today so thats y i posted it. Nice to know im right and you guys are wrong.

it takes 2 minutes to take a picture and post it unless you wear a helmet but never really played anything!!

LET THIS THREAD DIE ALREADY....

 

[redsfandrew]

I found a cham that looks identical to the one i own. The owner got it from suzi at Cali chams and he is an ambilobe. The third picture looks exactly like my cham. https://www.chameleonforums.com/6-month-old-male-ambilobe-83536/

Sorry but the only time that i really answer to these posts is when im at work and have 10 hours of free time to sit online. When i get out the last thing i do is sit at home and take pictures so i can prove you guys wrong. like i said ill get pictures up as soon as i can. I just got a reply from the owner of his cham today so thats y i posted it. Nice to know im right and you guys are wrong.

Your Cham looks nothing like this. The pattern is not really a dead give away at what Locale it is. You my friend have a cross. Im glad you can get a firm conformation from a questionable salesmen,that "you are right", but you aren't fooling anyone on this forum.

 

[reefercheefer]

So i took some photos today so you guys can see him for yourself. heres the link to the thread. https://www.chameleonforums.com/what-locale-my-panther-89319/#post834507

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

Very cool colors and great looking cham, but definitely not ambilobe imo.