Nutritional value of wild Katydid grasshoppers

[Brodybreaux25]

So I have started several breeding colonies of grasshoppers I catch here in southeast Louisiana. I’m attempting to breed what I believe to be Katydids, True Katydids, Forked Tail Bush Katydids, Mischevious Bird Grasshoppers, and Common Coneheads.

I currently use these wild caught species as a staple feeder for my chams. Since they are wild caught I don’t always gutload them like I would with captive bred feeders. But if I do successfully breed my own I loose that benefit of feeding my chams pre-gutloaded highly nutritious wild grasshoppers. So Im curious, what kind of nutritional value does a non-gutloaded captive bred grasshopper have?

And for everyone about to start screaming about the potential dangers of feeding wild caught insects to a Cham, save it. I monitor their health closely and have them tested regularly.

 

[Alexander1]

Umm, I sure wouldn’t mind buying some off u

 

[jamest0o0]

Lol same^

 

[jamest0o0]

Well to throw my input... Our gutload is far superior to anything they eat in the wild. As for CB un-gutloaded, I'd imagine they have high protein, but I can't say any specifics for sure. Either way, the benefit of variety is still going to help a lot. Gutloading does go a long way in terms of offering nutrients, though how necessary some of these are for chams is probably unknown. Each insect is made up of it's own macro/micro nutrients regardless of what it's been feeding on. So I think a large number of different insects is probably the most beneficial thing you can do for your animal when it comes to feeding. That's pretty much all I can add, sorry I couldn't be of more help.

One thing I'd like to ask, when monitoring fecals and such, have you ever actually had a problem with parasites or anything else? Just curious, I used to be more uptight about offering my animals anything from outside, but I've eased a lot on it. They now eat anything that crosses their paths when outside: wasps, spiders, bees, rolypolys, stinkbugs, beetles, pretty much anything that comes by. I never go out of my way to feed them anything unfamiliar, but they've had no problems with this so far and for my Parsons it seems to be the easiest way to get him to eat.

 

[Brodybreaux25]

To date I have not had any issues with parasites in my chams but I really don’t know what kind of load they have been exposed to. I don’t know if they have been exposed to very few parasites or if they have just always been able to fight them off. I have been doing it with my veilds for a couple years now, been doing it with my sons bearded dragon for about 5.

I feel like most people mistakenly believe chams are way more fragile than they actually are but I only have hands on experience with veilds, I hear others are more sensitive. Of course this is all based on proper husbandry. I figure nature has built them to cope with a certain level of parasites.

And I feed them way more than just Katydids and Coneheads, my 5yo spends pretty much every day catching bugs so he can feed them to our chams and dragon. We frequently give them different species of grasshoppers, crickets, moths, butterflies, flies, dragon flies, bees, stink bugs, aphids, stickbugs, praying mantis, caterpillars, cabbage worms, pretty much anything except for lubbers. We run a few light traps at night and most of the bugs literally come to us. I rarely have to buy feeders from March to early November.

 

[Brodybreaux25]

By far their favorite thing is the big 6” blue or gold dragon flies. When we throw one of them in their cage all that stealthy rocking back and forth immediately goes out the window and they go full-on Jurassic Park on them! Large flying insects really get their attention!

 

[jamest0o0]

Oh I agree, I think chameleons only become sensitive when they're compromised due to bad husbandry. Nature built them to eat things in trees, which are often stinging/poisonous/venemous insects, along with most plants being toxic where they come from. Not that I'd try to give my cham something dangerous, but i think they can handle a lot.

BTW I'm super jealous. We have a good bit of bugs in PA, but I live closer to the city so street lights and all that keep me from getting anything interesting.

 

[JacksJill]

I doubt it has been studied but I found this thread from @kinyonga that has some nutrition info
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/insects-and-nutrition.131569/

 

[Brodybreaux25]

I doubt it has been studied but I found this thread from @kinyonga that has some nutrition info
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/insects-and-nutrition.131569/

You expect me to understand any of that!

 

[JacksJill]

Best I could do on short notice. If you know the latin name of the insect you are golden.

 

[Brodybreaux25]

Best I could do on short notice. If you know the latin name of the insect you are golden.

Still greatly appreciated. And I do know the Latin names of the bugs but I’ll have to wait till I get off work.

 

[BXtine07]

Any pointers for catching these? My husband calls my son and I spongebob and patrick when we catch them handheld nets and put them in a cricket keeper lol. We live next to a state park and pond so there's lots of stuff she likes to eat. Seems like we are catching the same things, but i'd imagine theres an easier way than than what im doing lol. Dragonflies are her favorite too i think.

 

[Bigsky]

I use a light trap to capture insects at night. Catch mostly moths.

 

[Brodybreaux25]

Any pointers for catching these? My husband calls my son and I spongebob and patrick when we catch them handheld nets and put them in a cricket keeper lol. We live next to a state park and pond so there's lots of stuff she likes to eat. Seems like we are catching the same things, but i'd imagine theres an easier way than than what im doing lol. Dragonflies are her favorite too i think.

Do it at night with a spotlight.
They freeze when the light hits them just like a deer.

ive got videos on my YouTube of us doing it.
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCOWEfMsl_GcH19K9zrgva1g

 

[bobcochran]

Well to throw my input... Our gutload is far superior to anything they eat in the wild. As for CB un-gutloaded, I'd imagine they have high protein, but I can't say any specifics for sure. Either way, the benefit of variety is still going to help a lot. Gutloading does go a long way in terms of offering nutrients, though how necessary some of these are for chams is probably unknown. Each insect is made up of it's own macro/micro nutrients regardless of what it's been feeding on. So I think a large number of different insects is probably the most beneficial thing you can do for your animal when it comes to feeding. That's pretty much all I can add, sorry I couldn't be of more help.

One thing I'd like to ask, when monitoring fecals and such, have you ever actually had a problem with parasites or anything else? Just curious, I used to be more uptight about offering my animals anything from outside, but I've eased a lot on it. They now eat anything that crosses their paths when outside: wasps, spiders, bees, rolypolys, stinkbugs, beetles, pretty much anything that comes by. I never go out of my way to feed them anything unfamiliar, but they've had no problems with this so far and for my Parsons it seems to be the easiest way to get him to eat.

 

[bobcochran]

You are so wrong about "our gut load" being far superior to wild caught insects. When I raise babies with wild caught field sweeps just as a supplement to commercial insects the babies grow so much faster than wintertime babies when field sweeps are unavailable.

 

[jamest0o0]

You are so wrong about "our gut load" being far superior to wild caught insects. When I raise babies with wild caught field sweeps just as a supplement to commercial insects the babies grow so much faster than wintertime babies when field sweeps are unavailable.

You realize this is from 2 years ago? And I disagree. I still mostly stand by what's said here. Hell, bill even had a guy on the podcast mention similar... can't remember who. I agree that a variety of feeders>gutload, but as far as gutload goes, the nutrients found in our gutload I'd be willing to bet FAR surpass what is found in any one area in the wild. We have things like kale/papaya/moringa/seeds/etc from all over the world combined into one powder/mix/etc. You think some grass and oak leaves are equal to that? It may even be TOO much. The success you're seeing is likely from the variety of insects you're offering from the wild, not the gutload that those insects are feeding on. Please if youre going to try and argue with me over a 2year post, someone you've never talked to, come at me with better info than 'my chameleons grow slower without wild bugs, so therefore wild gutload is better'. The winter could be a variable for slower growth, the bugs themselves might be more nutritious, gutload might not even play much of a role, etc. I don't doubt your findings, but a lot more goes into it.

And to anyone reading, because I know someone is going to take this into a wildcaught insects vs commercial insect debate... I'm talking about *gutload*, NOT the type of feeders. Strictly the nutrition of the *gutload*. I am all for WC insects and use them myself. I have said plenty of times on here that I believe gutload is overrated and a feeder variety is most important.

Just feel the need to be clear since we're bringing up old threads now.

 

[Kaizen]

Ugh, I get so excited when I see brody and James posting, but this thread is years old...sad face.

 

[snitz427]

Hey @Brodybreaux25 did you ever find any baseline nutritional info on hoppers or katydids

 

[kinyonga]

https://globalfoodbook.com/astonishing-benefits-of-grasshoppers
Nutritional Values of Grasshoppers

"Kinyuru et al., (2011) assessed the nutritional ability of green and brown coloured grasshoppers as an alternative for combating nutritional deficiencies. The study showed that the selected grasshoppers contain 37.1% and 35.3% protein, 48.2% and 46.2% fat, 2.8% and 2.6% ash, 3.9% and 4.9% dietary fibre for the green and brown grasshoppers respectively. These grasshoppers also contain macro and trace minerals such as; phosphorus (P) 140.9 mg/100g and 121.0 mg/100g, potassium (K) of 370.6 mg/100g and 259.7 mg/100g, calcium (Ca) of 27.4 mg/100g and 24.5 mg/100g, iron (Fe) of 16.6 mg/100g and 13.0 mg/100g, zinc of 17.3 mg/100g and 12.4 mg/100g in the green and brown grasshopper respectively."


"They also exhibited a retinol concentration of 2.1 μg/g and 2.8 μg/g, riboflavin 1.2 mg/100g and 1.4 mg/100g, α-tocopherol 201.0 μg/g and 152.0 μg/g and niacin 2.1 mg/100g and 2.4 mg/100g for the green and brown grasshopper respectively. The lipid analysis showed that the grasshoppers’ oil contains high quantities of polyunsaturated fatty acids, 89.4% and 84.3% neutral lipids, glycolipids 3.2% and 6.4%, 7.4% and 9.3% phospholipids, for green and brown grasshopper respectively. Furthermore, Ghosh et al., (2016) evaluated the nutrients quality in Oxya hyla hyla grasshopper species. The results showed that this species consists of 64% protein, minerals, vitamins, carbohydrate, amino acids and unsaturated fatty acids. They also reported that this grasshopper is low in antinutritional factors and contains negligible amounts of cholesterol and other fats. These findings support that grasshopper is an excellent source of essential minerals, vitamins and nutrients that are essential for the healthy functioning of the body. This further suggests that this edible insect is suitable for tackling nutritional deficiencies that are increasingly becoming a global concern."