Opinions on Chameleon Pricing
- Thread starter jrh3
- Start date
batmancumming
New Member
i'm planning on acquiring a panther in the near future, and i don't feel that the prices are really that outrages. i think someone said it earlier...PEACE OF MIND. i would rather pay the extra money to a site sponsor and know that they took excellent care of the cham i wish to purchase, than pay $90 from someone who doesnt have any reputation. no offense, i would just prefer to KNOW that i am making the right decision when it comes to the overall health of my animal
BugCatcher
New Member
That made me lol
And no one is complaining either. I'd be happy to get a pair when I finish the room.
Ace ,
If an item has a limited life span and it has owned/bred yes it's a used item because some of it's lifespan has been shortened. Like I said common sense isn't learned.
Just take a look at the classifieds here of the constant panther/veiled "re-homing" or hold backs. Another silly dishonest term. It shows that they aren't getting what they expected.
While we may have a few honest breeders out there but even then their bloodlines don't mean squat and neither does their pictures of the sires and Dames. It's a risk no matter what. And believe me I know a lot about cost per goods sold. I'll say it again it's the Paris Hilton effect, and it you choose to be a lamb then so be it. I prefer to be the shepard, you won't see me wearing Dulce shades, LV bag, or Ed hardy shirt while walking a chi-pom.
If an item has a limited life span and it has owned/bred yes it's a used item because some of it's lifespan has been shortened. Like I said common sense isn't learned.
Just take a look at the classifieds here of the constant panther/veiled "re-homing" or hold backs. Another silly dishonest term. It shows that they aren't getting what they expected.
While we may have a few honest breeders out there but even then their bloodlines don't mean squat and neither does their pictures of the sires and Dames. It's a risk no matter what. And believe me I know a lot about cost per goods sold. I'll say it again it's the Paris Hilton effect, and it you choose to be a lamb then so be it. I prefer to be the shepard, you won't see me wearing Dulce shades, LV bag, or Ed hardy shirt while walking a chi-pom.
The reason that Veiled Chameleons are so cheap is very simple--PetSmart and PetCo carry them and have for at least 15 years.
They don't carry any other type of chameleons because 1) veiled are the most tolerant of improper care 2) chameleons are not good introductory lizards 3) they experience a high mortality rate with chameleons in their stores.
In just about any town in the US, you can drive 30 minutes to a store and buy a Veiled Chameleon. The same cannot be said for Panthers. I've seen Panther on sale once in the past 5 years in my local reptile store and that they came from a local breeder that normally supplies a steady stream of Vieled Chameleons.
I recently bought an Ambanja male from the Kammers. I spent a month searching for an Ambanja male. There may have been an ad for an Ambanja on kingsnake during that month but I only purchase from reputable breeders.
It's simple supply and demand. As long as someone has to wait for any period of time to buy something, the price is going to be higher.
The vast majority of reptiles are bought and sold in brick and mortar stores still. The price of anything that is commonly available in a B&M store is going to be much lower than things only available online.
They don't carry any other type of chameleons because 1) veiled are the most tolerant of improper care 2) chameleons are not good introductory lizards 3) they experience a high mortality rate with chameleons in their stores.
In just about any town in the US, you can drive 30 minutes to a store and buy a Veiled Chameleon. The same cannot be said for Panthers. I've seen Panther on sale once in the past 5 years in my local reptile store and that they came from a local breeder that normally supplies a steady stream of Vieled Chameleons.
I recently bought an Ambanja male from the Kammers. I spent a month searching for an Ambanja male. There may have been an ad for an Ambanja on kingsnake during that month but I only purchase from reputable breeders.
It's simple supply and demand. As long as someone has to wait for any period of time to buy something, the price is going to be higher.
The vast majority of reptiles are bought and sold in brick and mortar stores still. The price of anything that is commonly available in a B&M store is going to be much lower than things only available online.
Free panther female chameleon
I have a female chameleon I have to give away. She seems sick cause her eyes are always closed. She refuses to eat and I nomore have the time to attend her. Unfortunately I'm giving her away for free. Im located in NY *She's a panther and 1 year old. Email me at [email protected].*
I have a female chameleon I have to give away. She seems sick cause her eyes are always closed. She refuses to eat and I nomore have the time to attend her. Unfortunately I'm giving her away for free. Im located in NY *She's a panther and 1 year old. Email me at [email protected].*
Winterhawk1960
New Member
This is the SAME argument...........on a DIFFERENT forum. I belong to a "traditional archery" forum and at least once a year a thread comes up about "over-priced" bows. They BOTH do the same thing, shoot arrows......they BOTH look "similar".............so.........WHY is it that some of the bowyers have an 18 month to 2 year waiting list and their bows are the MOST expensive to boot ????
The ANSWER is the same as to the "over-priced chameleon" question.
It is BECAUSE.......................
1. The reputation of the "supplier" in this case, and THEIR product is such that the DEMAND is beyond what the SUPPLIER can produce in a specific time period.
That's it..........in a nutshell. In the archery world there are bows that require $2000 and up..........along with a substantial wait of up to 2 years, JUST for your name to come up. There are "deposits" taken, to HOLD a place in-line for a product that doesn't even exist yet.
Do they perform better for EVERYONE...........of course not.
Do they look better to EVERYONE.............of course not.
Will EVERYONE jump on the "bandwagon" just because they are the MOST sought after............MUST HAVE...........of course not.
Will they be the top-of-the-line, last have-to-have, bestest-of-the-best, best-invention-since-the-spoon.......for EVERYONE...........NOPE.
What they will give you is the.........OPTION to have something that is going to be within a specific "locality" in this case (for the most part) no PUN intended.
They will also give YOU.........the consumer.......the OPTION of waiting that amount of time, just for the chance to OWN the product, in the specifications that YOU decide appeals to you.
They will give the "peace of mind" that has already been mentioned of KNOWING the genetics that led to the end product (in this case a chameleon).
But perhaps the biggest and most valuable thing that they will give you......IS..............the OPTION to pay the asking price. If you aren't WILLING to pay the asking price.........you may as well STOP wanting what is being sold.
It is basic "supply and demand" and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that.......IF.........the "interested consumer"...........LOSES interest in purchasing HIS product, whatever it may be, his business (regardless of what it is) isn't gonna be afloat very long. The "customer service", both before and after the sale are just as important to me as the peace of mind of KNOWING what I'm gonna get............BEFORE........I even lay eyes on it.
The TRUST.........and REPUTATION that ChuckG mentioned, takes ever-so-long to develop and build...........and it takes so-very-little to destroy. Believe me..........one "oh shit" wipes out ten "atta boys".
I, had/have the CHOICE to spend my money wherever I CHOOSE to. So does EVERYONE else...........and most importantly, it's none of my business what other people choose to do with THEIR hard-earned money. It's up to the individual CONSUMER to make their OWN choices.
Yep...........I own one of those $2000 bows..........as a matter of fact, I own TWO of 'em. Thats MY business...........and the fact that I like to choose a "variety" of things that "visually appeal" to me is no ones business but MINE. It's not like I took the money out of YOU or ANYONE else's pocket to pay for them.
I find that I am far from an "ignorant person"........BUT........there is an awful LOT of things that I AM "ignorant about". I try my best to hang with people that have forgotten more than I may ever know about "things" that interest me. Chameleons.......INTEREST me, and my learning journey is well on its way. When I stop learning about chameleons or anything else that "interests me", it won't be because I know EVERYTHING about it..........but because I don't WANT to learn anymore. "Ignorance can be fixed, but stupidity is forever".
That being said.............it would be STUPID of me to try and tell someone else WHAT they should or shouldn't spend their money on. They have to make THAT decision for themselves. I'm not trying to be a smart-ass, and this isn't directed at ANYONE. Where anyone chooses to spend their money is based on a LOT of things that we need to sort out for ourselves. I'm still saying that obviously............the demand is beyond the supply, and THAT is what sets a price. Unless the breeders do as EXXON/MOBIL does and shuts down the refinery......WHEN.......gasoline isn't selling for the price they want it to.
Gets down off soapbox...........and quietly fades back into the background. Sorry for the rant..........but it chaps my ass to hear the SAME arguments, OVER and OVER.........WHEN the answer remains the same.
The ANSWER is the same as to the "over-priced chameleon" question.
It is BECAUSE.......................
1. The reputation of the "supplier" in this case, and THEIR product is such that the DEMAND is beyond what the SUPPLIER can produce in a specific time period.
That's it..........in a nutshell. In the archery world there are bows that require $2000 and up..........along with a substantial wait of up to 2 years, JUST for your name to come up. There are "deposits" taken, to HOLD a place in-line for a product that doesn't even exist yet.
Do they perform better for EVERYONE...........of course not.
Do they look better to EVERYONE.............of course not.
Will EVERYONE jump on the "bandwagon" just because they are the MOST sought after............MUST HAVE...........of course not.
Will they be the top-of-the-line, last have-to-have, bestest-of-the-best, best-invention-since-the-spoon.......for EVERYONE...........NOPE.
What they will give you is the.........OPTION to have something that is going to be within a specific "locality" in this case (for the most part) no PUN intended.
They will also give YOU.........the consumer.......the OPTION of waiting that amount of time, just for the chance to OWN the product, in the specifications that YOU decide appeals to you.
They will give the "peace of mind" that has already been mentioned of KNOWING the genetics that led to the end product (in this case a chameleon).
But perhaps the biggest and most valuable thing that they will give you......IS..............the OPTION to pay the asking price. If you aren't WILLING to pay the asking price.........you may as well STOP wanting what is being sold.
It is basic "supply and demand" and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that.......IF.........the "interested consumer"...........LOSES interest in purchasing HIS product, whatever it may be, his business (regardless of what it is) isn't gonna be afloat very long. The "customer service", both before and after the sale are just as important to me as the peace of mind of KNOWING what I'm gonna get............BEFORE........I even lay eyes on it.
The TRUST.........and REPUTATION that ChuckG mentioned, takes ever-so-long to develop and build...........and it takes so-very-little to destroy. Believe me..........one "oh shit" wipes out ten "atta boys".
I, had/have the CHOICE to spend my money wherever I CHOOSE to. So does EVERYONE else...........and most importantly, it's none of my business what other people choose to do with THEIR hard-earned money. It's up to the individual CONSUMER to make their OWN choices.
Yep...........I own one of those $2000 bows..........as a matter of fact, I own TWO of 'em. Thats MY business...........and the fact that I like to choose a "variety" of things that "visually appeal" to me is no ones business but MINE. It's not like I took the money out of YOU or ANYONE else's pocket to pay for them.
I find that I am far from an "ignorant person"........BUT........there is an awful LOT of things that I AM "ignorant about". I try my best to hang with people that have forgotten more than I may ever know about "things" that interest me. Chameleons.......INTEREST me, and my learning journey is well on its way. When I stop learning about chameleons or anything else that "interests me", it won't be because I know EVERYTHING about it..........but because I don't WANT to learn anymore. "Ignorance can be fixed, but stupidity is forever".
That being said.............it would be STUPID of me to try and tell someone else WHAT they should or shouldn't spend their money on. They have to make THAT decision for themselves. I'm not trying to be a smart-ass, and this isn't directed at ANYONE. Where anyone chooses to spend their money is based on a LOT of things that we need to sort out for ourselves. I'm still saying that obviously............the demand is beyond the supply, and THAT is what sets a price. Unless the breeders do as EXXON/MOBIL does and shuts down the refinery......WHEN.......gasoline isn't selling for the price they want it to.
Gets down off soapbox...........and quietly fades back into the background. Sorry for the rant..........but it chaps my ass to hear the SAME arguments, OVER and OVER.........WHEN the answer remains the same.
jrh3
Established Member
this makes no sence at all, there is by far no short of supply with panthers of the locale you speak of. and you say the veileds are cheap because petsmart carrys them, HAHA WFT? It is not sipmle supply and demand, there is a large supply of them.
jrh3
Established Member
Your not looking at the topic, even the breeders can sell them for 90 bucks and be ok. It doesnt matter who sells them price is price.
So what exactly is your argument? People can sell them cheap but they don't? Welcome to the free market economy! If people will pay then the price can stay high, and people do pay. Is it fair to the other species or consumers? Maybe not, but the people doing the selling aren't complaining, and in all honesty, neither are the people buying because they are paying to get what they want. If you don't want to sell them for the same price then don't. You're just whining and arguing for arguing's sake at this point...
OldChamKeeper
Chameleon Enthusiast
I've taken my time, read each post in this topic, and pondered a little.
What is the purpose of this topic? Is the OP trying to shine a light on an injustice? Is the OP just upset that if he wants a screaming blue lizard he has to pay premium for it instead of $90?
Well, if it is an injustice I'd say the OP is not comparing things like apples to apples. There are a number of parameters to consider between Veileds and Panthers that I won't bother to take up room and post on. Bottom line is they are not the same and boiling an arguement down to "baby Veiled cost the same amount as a Panther to raise" doesn't cut it.
Let's put it in terms of a Mammal. Breeding a couple American bloodline German Shepherds costs the same as breeding some European bloodline German Shepherds. In terms of the actual costs, they are the same. To the average person, they may not see much of a difference between the two litters, especially when one pup is selling for $400 and the other $1500. Is there an injustice? No. Pay the price you want but I'll speak from experience and say I know which of the two is going to be bigger if that's what you wanted in addition to a number of other qualities (For the record I own both bloodlines, love them to death). In the case of these Panthers, you do have a much much better chance of knowing what you are getting for your money than if you buy the $90 one.
On the other hand, if the price is the only thing that is irksome, don't buy it. Complain about it, try and change it, vent a little, but the truth is if the animals are selling for $200+ then that's what they will be sold for. Your only statement in the end is to not buy the animal at the price a seller wants. Tough.
On my end, I know the value of good genetics in a person's stock especially if there is a bloodline that can be traced.
My .02
What is the purpose of this topic? Is the OP trying to shine a light on an injustice? Is the OP just upset that if he wants a screaming blue lizard he has to pay premium for it instead of $90?
Well, if it is an injustice I'd say the OP is not comparing things like apples to apples. There are a number of parameters to consider between Veileds and Panthers that I won't bother to take up room and post on. Bottom line is they are not the same and boiling an arguement down to "baby Veiled cost the same amount as a Panther to raise" doesn't cut it.
Let's put it in terms of a Mammal. Breeding a couple American bloodline German Shepherds costs the same as breeding some European bloodline German Shepherds. In terms of the actual costs, they are the same. To the average person, they may not see much of a difference between the two litters, especially when one pup is selling for $400 and the other $1500. Is there an injustice? No. Pay the price you want but I'll speak from experience and say I know which of the two is going to be bigger if that's what you wanted in addition to a number of other qualities (For the record I own both bloodlines, love them to death). In the case of these Panthers, you do have a much much better chance of knowing what you are getting for your money than if you buy the $90 one.
On the other hand, if the price is the only thing that is irksome, don't buy it. Complain about it, try and change it, vent a little, but the truth is if the animals are selling for $200+ then that's what they will be sold for. Your only statement in the end is to not buy the animal at the price a seller wants. Tough.
On my end, I know the value of good genetics in a person's stock especially if there is a bloodline that can be traced.
My .02
jrh3
Established Member
Ok im glad you said this. COMMON PRICE RANGE, who determines this? the buyer does. why would you pay 200 bucks for a COMMON and i will say COMMON which a ambilobe is now, when you should be able to get it for half that. There is no hidden cost in panthers that there is not in any other chameleon, i promise. it is harder to find a jacksons chameleon than it is a panther.
You get what you pay for........jump on the wagon buddy!!!! so if this breeder takes 2 new WC blood lines and breeds them then sells the offspring for 10 time the price and labels them as Super Shocka Da Blue Magnet blood, Does this justify a price jack over the Last blue blood. If your blind to the marketing facts yes. People will think awwwww new blue magnet blood must be the best, i want, now thats hot, does it come with a carring purse, i will pay double for that. WHY? because they dont know any better.
This thread is boring now because you're just arguing with anyone who answers with no particular point in mind other than they are too expensive...so don't buy one. 
jrh3
Established Member
the whole topic was what was your opinion on the prices, not a uproar about ohhh it cost soooo much to feed a panther because they only like feeders that have been handpicked from the 100 crickets you breed.
About the dogs, there is no comparion, this is the point, panthers have been around so long now your NOT buying a european.
You also on this price high must buy kick. lol. They were this same price 5 years ago. Also, why is everyone breeding them now? Its like the pitbull craze.
This was a simple r u ok with pricing and why. But a few sponsors got upset when i tell them ok now, they are not still some rare chameleon anymore. But noobs cant see past the oooooo thats a pretty panther must be expensive, i will buy it.
Why are French bulldogs easily several thousand dollars but Boston terriers are much less than half that much? The dogs themselves kinda look the same and have the same kinds of health problems for the most part. Frenchies don't cost more to make than Boston's either and they've both been around long enough that they don't come from exotic places, but that's the way of the market. And even backyard breeders can charge more than other breeds for their frenchies. People who want frenchies pay more to get them just like people who want high color chams pay more to get those.
thephotoprincess
Avid Member
And if everyone realized how sweet and curious and amazing they are, they would be going for much more!!!
ChameleonAlley
New Member
You should just go ahead and do it man. No reason to have to defend your reasoning, as it sounds like you're already sold on the idea that you can raise and sell $90.00 panthers.
I personally think there's absolutely NO WAY that $90.00 would even come close to covering just your care and labor. I have almost 30 chams and care for them daily. Just the care alone in the sires/dames/eggs/raising of hatchlings is worth more than $90.00 an animal. Not to mention; electricity, vet bills, water bills, supplies (lights, cage supplies, etc), feeders (care and time of breeding feeders).
I personally think there's absolutely NO WAY that $90.00 would even come close to covering just your care and labor. I have almost 30 chams and care for them daily. Just the care alone in the sires/dames/eggs/raising of hatchlings is worth more than $90.00 an animal. Not to mention; electricity, vet bills, water bills, supplies (lights, cage supplies, etc), feeders (care and time of breeding feeders).
