LoyaltyNECO
New Member
I've never heard of any of our store formats having any type of approved habitat like what you described (both size and mixing species) at all. I'm wondering how the store even has a display like that?
Petsmarts Care Guide
- Thread starter Versagirl
- Start date
I've never heard of any of our store formats having any type of approved habitat like what you described (both size and mixing species) at all. I'm wondering how the store even has a display like that?
Tulsa Oklahoma store #219 on 41st Street
Give them hell.. There's not enough deals and discounts for me to walk away. Your return policy is awesome, however.
SonTigerPantherCham
New Member
Ok, Petsmart manager has gotten an ear full. So I see 2 things that might change, he gets what our concerns are and will go up the foodchain( no pun intended) and make recommendations to fix some of these problems.....or, door # 2, don't shop there and use our sponsors from this site
MINItron
New Member
I have to agree with that one. I have never seen a Petsmart with that kind of habitat, and certainly never seen one where they had housed multiple species of reptiles together. I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but it would not conform to the standard. I have lived, and shopped Petsmart, on both coasts, and in the middle of the country.
That being said, I don't buy pets from Petsmart. I buy supplies and feeders there. Where I live now the only local options I have for supplies and feeders are Petsmart and Petco.
eeekroar
Member
I was in Pet Smart last night getting dog treats and seen they had another Veil Chameleon. Last week he was missing in action. This week his listed price was 99 but under it said 74. Both gauges were hidden behind dense artificial foliage. I could only make out 100 degrees on the temp. He was sitting with his mouth wide open and never closed it. Poor guy.
We were nearly attacked by three dogs in the store,also. They were also trying to attack anyone else in the store. We use to bring our Mini Schnauzer in but it seems every time we go in there someone brings their killer beast in.Imagine a pit bull trying to rip your babies head off. I take offense to it.
We were nearly attacked by three dogs in the store,also. They were also trying to attack anyone else in the store. We use to bring our Mini Schnauzer in but it seems every time we go in there someone brings their killer beast in.Imagine a pit bull trying to rip your babies head off. I take offense to it.
LoyaltyNECO
New Member
You're correct our Veileds are on sale for $74.99 until the 27th I believe.
As far as the dogs. In our stores we are most definitely allowed (and should be) asking pet parents with aggressive pets of any kind to leave the store. Our stores are most certainly a family friendly environment and no one should be put at risk of an animal bite/attack.
Carlton
Chameleon Enthusiast
I am so glad you are in on this discussion! We rarely hear from the "other side" (er...the Dark Side
).I agree that housing for pet shop livestock can't realistically be perfect. BUT, when potential buyers see an animal new to them, they can't help but want to mimic the caging they see on display out of sheer ignorance. I realize too that many customers never think the purchase through enough to ask questions about care. And, if an associate does not explain that the housing is only temporary and not ideal, the buyer has no clue they are heading into trouble. Like many on this forum, before deciding if I will become a regular customer, I test a pet shop's (yes, including PetSmart or PetCo) expertise by asking husbandry questions, including questions about the proper housing setup for a particular animal. I can't recall a single time a store associate has said "our cages are displays only...your permanent setup should be...etc.". I recall seeing a screen cage in one or two stores, but they were completely inadequate for an adult cham such as a veiled. Tiny things about 24" on a side.
Are the species specific care sheets readily available with examples of what should be done instead? Even pictures posted at the displays would help. The mass-produced husbandry books most stores sell are outdated at best downright misleading at worst. Does anyone review these books to see if they should even be stocked?
It has been a while since I have looked at herp related products at either a PetCo or PetSmart so hopefully the supplies they normally carry has improved. I can remember not so long ago I was shopping for correct UV lighting such as a ReptiSun 5.0 and none of these stores carried them. They all stocked the incandescent "full spectrum" basking bulbs but it is now well known that these bulbs do NOT produce the correct UVB needed. I can't count how many times new forum members were told this was the only lighting needed by pet store personnel. How many times have I seen the single water bowl, no foliage, and sand substrate in a pet store display of chameleons? Time and time again. No obvious other source of water...even a spray bottle standing at the cage side (and an explanation about misting by an employee) would be better.
If the corporate climate is changing and better attempts to carry the proper supplies and caging are being made I am glad to hear it. Guess the "trickle down" effect is still in infancy.
pinocchiosmommy
New Member
That sucks! The one in Cambridge doesn't even carry dogs or cats. They used to a long time ago, then it did suck too. Now they have a new owner, and he seems interested in the animals and learning about them. I wish other stores would care. It would make a big difference.
AReptile
New Member
The petlands i have been to, I have only seen a chameleon carried by them ONCE. She was in such a small cage it looked ridiculous, it was definitely smaller than a 10 gallon tank... My cham who is like a 1/3 of that size is in a 18x18x36 enclosure. Also the petco i get my superworms from, all of their baby lizards have a bowl of mini mealworms available to them. That's great and all but apparently baby beardies shouldn't be given mealworms until they are bigger due to impaction problems that can lead to death.. Then people see this and continue the practice at home and the dragon probably dies at a young age. Another local petstore i go to alot for crickets, a few months ago they were housing a baby beardie in this massive tank, and apparently it was being fed crickets far too large for it. Idk these pet stores are ok for supplies, and as far as chameleons go they dont know much. But the petland i frequent most the manager said that they dont normally carry chameleons becasue of that so it's good that they only had that one cham. Thankfully it was only there for a week.
mreinsteiner
Member
The petco that I buy crickets from has ONE very knowledgeable employee. He helped me get all the basics set up. He also pointed me to this forum, and told me to do research here before I even thought about adopting a cham. When I started looking into Cham's he told me not to house them like they have them in the store. He was actually really funny, I think he hates how Petco treats their reptiles as much as everybody here. The best part, when I ignorantly asked to hold a cham (before I did any research and I was stupid), he said Absolutely not and gave me a 30 second lecture on why I shouldn't. He also told me I should go to a different pet store (and by pet store I mean a guy's house who breeds reptiles) to get my cham, because they were much healthier and I could see how they should be kept, which I did and ended up getting Dax. I don't see him lasting long there, he knows too much.
Thought I'd throw in my Petco story.
Thought I'd throw in my Petco story.
Carlton
Chameleon Enthusiast
I hope someone thought to praise this employee to the store management. Feedback is key to changing corporate attitude, but if no one rewards GOOD behavior it won't change. Even if he suggested going somewhere else to buy the animal, his store would benefit more from a loyal repeat customer for supplies. We all love to bash stores for bad behavior but unless done very carefully it gets ignored as whining. Those of us who work with rescue dogs know...reward the behavior you want to see...don't just punish the bad. Nothing in Life is Free...before you get what you want (my business) you have to do something to earn it (show me you know about your stock and care).
LoyaltyNECO
New Member
I am so glad you are in on this discussion! We rarely hear from the "other side" (er...the Dark Side
I agree that housing for pet shop livestock can't realistically be perfect. BUT, when potential buyers see an animal new to them, they can't help but want to mimic the caging they see on display out of sheer ignorance. I realize too that many customers never think the purchase through enough to ask questions about care. And, if an associate does not explain that the housing is only temporary and not ideal, the buyer has no clue they are heading into trouble. Like many on this forum, before deciding if I will become a regular customer, I test a pet shop's (yes, including PetSmart or PetCo) expertise by asking husbandry questions, including questions about the proper housing setup for a particular animal. I can't recall a single time a store associate has said "our cages are displays only...your permanent setup should be...etc.". I recall seeing a screen cage in one or two stores, but they were completely inadequate for an adult cham such as a veiled. Tiny things about 24" on a side.
Are the species specific care sheets readily available with examples of what should be done instead? Even pictures posted at the displays would help. The mass-produced husbandry books most stores sell are outdated at best downright misleading at worst. Does anyone review these books to see if they should even be stocked?
It has been a while since I have looked at herp related products at either a PetCo or PetSmart so hopefully the supplies they normally carry has improved. I can remember not so long ago I was shopping for correct UV lighting such as a ReptiSun 5.0 and none of these stores carried them. They all stocked the incandescent "full spectrum" basking bulbs but it is now well known that these bulbs do NOT produce the correct UVB needed. I can't count how many times new forum members were told this was the only lighting needed by pet store personnel. How many times have I seen the single water bowl, no foliage, and sand substrate in a pet store display of chameleons? Time and time again. No obvious other source of water...even a spray bottle standing at the cage side (and an explanation about misting by an employee) would be better.
If the corporate climate is changing and better attempts to carry the proper supplies and caging are being made I am glad to hear it. Guess the "trickle down" effect is still in infancy.
As I mentioned before, only speaking about my specific associates.....since our pets are all locked up there has to be an associate helping the pet parent when purchasing any pet in the store. That way they are forced to talk to someone about what is required for that pet. Speaking strictly about Chameleons, my store does have the small ReptiBreeze screen enclosure. As we all know, that is perfectly fine for a juvenile Cham. With the knowledge that I and the rest of my management staff has (about 45 years between the 5 of us......we are all under 33 years old) I feel perfectly confident that my associates have the proper training to sell whats required to provide a healthy and happy habitat for all of our pets. As I've mentioned above, I have a few associates have have even more experience than some of the managers in the building.
We do have care sheets readily available for all the pets we carry, and TONS for pets we do not carry that are on the sales floor in the areas where the live pets are housed. Also, if there's a pet a customer has that we do not have the care sheet on the sales floor, chances are we have the ability to print it. Again speaking specifically about Chameleons (because that's the care sheet I have sitting by my computer) it does have a picture of the proper enclosure needed. Here's a link to the version that's on our website, but it's not set up like the one we have in the store, (missing the picture) Veiled Chameleon Care Sheet.
Our books are reviewed and serviced by a third party company (TFH Publishing) which seems to pretty much be the standard from what I know about books in pet stores (including the smaller ones).
You are correct on the point about only the smaller habitats being available in the stores. My store specifically does not have any screen enclosures appropriate for an adult Cham. As I mentioned above we do have the ReptiBreeze that is suitable for a juve. However, we do carry the 18x18x36 ReptiBreeze online.
On to the lighting point.....my store does not carry the ReptiSun products specifically, but we do carry the 2.0, 5.0 and 10.0 Exo Terra ReptiGlow UVB bulbs (in both compact and tube). As I mentioned in a previous post, my store specifically also carries 3 or 4 different MV bulbs by two manufactures.
To give you an insight on how the Chameleons are set up in my store......The habitat itself is the plastic habitat that I'm sure you've seen before (with a screen top). There is the Exo Terra ReptiGlow 5.0 and a basking light above the enclosure. We have the bottom lined with cage carpet and have the bendable vines with foliage inside. We have a temperature and humidity gauge in the habitat in addition to a free standing water bowl (oddly enough the last female veiled I had in there drank from the water bowl?!). They are misted about 3-4 times per day. We feed crickets every day that are gut loaded with the flukers dry and dusted. From what I can remember sitting at home I think that's about everything......
I may not change every ones mind on this forum about big pet stores and how they care for their pets but I hope the couple posts in this thread have helped you all get a clearer understanding into the workings of PetSmart. One thing that I can say is that PetSmart is HUGE on feedback from the associates and management staff. MANY of the items that have been suggested from the store level have been implemented in the 4 years that I've been there.
On a side note my store was in the top 5% of stores (technically the top 1%....I finished #9 in the company
) for 2009. The "Circle of Excellence" winners went to Phoenix and part of our work out there was a meeting with the top 30 vendors in the company. We talked to them about what they were doing well, what they could improve on and finally, suggestions for new products. That event went so well last year when we did it that they're sending some of us out again April 4th-6th. It just goes to show that PetSmart is open to making changes with in our company and with the vendors that we work with.The above is in no way the opinion(s) of PetSmart
daveo
Established Member
I am a newbie when it comes to the current care and husbandry of Chameleons. I was however a very active reptile keeper in my youth. I even worked at a pet shop with a herpetologist for a few years to make my way through collage. The pet-shop I worked in was extremely knowledgeable about herps and fish. we knew enough to get by with the small animals like mice and rabbits, but those animals are feeders for the herps anyway. However, I would go to other pet shops and be appalled by the way they kept their herps. I guess the point I am trying to make is unless the animals are treated poorly by a corporate mandate, then the stores are going to vary from site to site. Even in other hobbies, the knowledge of the staff at one store may pale in comparison to the knowledge of another. In my home town there are really only three choices, Petsmart, Petco, and Petland. Petland has the best selection, but they buy their puppies from puppy farms and that is a corporate mandate so I will not go there. Petco does not stock what I need. So I end up at the Petsmart 9 times out of ten. And while the staff my not be as knowledgeable as this forum about keeping herps, They have helped me many times with my fish. I have gotten good and bad advice from them, but I feel that as the care taker of the animal in question that it is incumbent upon me to research and find the best advice on how to do things. For instance I am going to get a Chameleon. I came here first to ask questions. As a result I have built my own cage, created my own lighting and even bought a mister based on the advice here. I did go to the pet shop and ask them what I needed, and they told me many of the same things you have, but I did nothing until I had all the answers I needed. Just an opinion
DaveO
. However, I would go to other pet shops and be appalled by the way they kept their herps. I guess the point I am trying to make is unless the animals are treated poorly by a corporate mandate, then the stores are going to vary from site to site. Even in other hobbies, the knowledge of the staff at one store may pale in comparison to the knowledge of another. In my home town there are really only three choices, Petsmart, Petco, and Petland. Petland has the best selection, but they buy their puppies from puppy farms and that is a corporate mandate so I will not go there. Petco does not stock what I need. So I end up at the Petsmart 9 times out of ten. And while the staff my not be as knowledgeable as this forum about keeping herps, They have helped me many times with my fish. I have gotten good and bad advice from them, but I feel that as the care taker of the animal in question that it is incumbent upon me to research and find the best advice on how to do things. For instance I am going to get a Chameleon. I came here first to ask questions. As a result I have built my own cage, created my own lighting and even bought a mister based on the advice here. I did go to the pet shop and ask them what I needed, and they told me many of the same things you have, but I did nothing until I had all the answers I needed. Just an opinionDaveO
eisentrauti
Avid Member
Very good caresheet, if the buyers treat the chameleon that way, Pet"smart" can sell two - three chameleons per year to every stupid person, called customer
Psi
New Member
I don't even have a clue what you're trying to say here,
Yes, the new Petsmart care sheet is good.
If a customer buys an animal and follows the care sheet, they're pretty smart.
If a customer doesn't follow it, yes they're stupid.
But I have no idea how that's petsmarts issue?
LoyaltyNECO
New Member
I agree with PSI, I'm not quite sure what you meant in this post.
DaveO, you brought up a great point. Each store does vary (thus why I usually preface things with 'speaking about my store specifically') and it's up to the management staff in that particular building to ensure that our corporate standards are maintained.
I would encourage anyone that ever has a question about their local PetSmart store to speak to the management staff. They may not be able to deviate from policy but I'm sure they will be able to explain why we do the things we do in regards to the pets in our care.
Its not about even having knowledge of animals at hand its the pure lack of common sense and effort put into their jobs. Yes there is a few good ladies working at my local elyria. They recommend me to shows for feeders and ect.. They are good peoples mixed with many not so good. I really could care less for explanations from the things ive witnessed.
daveo
Established Member
You know as I think about this more, Besides the people who actually Keep chams, who is going to know the information that the people on this forum know? I mean lets face it we love these animals and learn all we can in order to keep them to the best of our ability. The animals are our pets so of course we are going to to cater to their every need whether it is over kill or not. I do not think the lack of knowledge is a premeditated thing. The people are there not only to help customers but to do all of the other things that a retail business does. I mean lets face it you don't need extensive knowledge of a habitat to clean a cage. I am sure that most of the people that work at a big box pet shop are dog and cat lovers. I would even say some are afraid to go anywhere near the herps. Unless you go to a store that specializes in herps, you will be disappointed with what you see and hear. The other thing to realize is that the pets offered in a pet shop are transient. They are only there a short time so the pet shop just needs to keep them healthy for a short time. I just want to clarify, I am not in any way endorsing bad treatment of animals. I do however have a little different view having come from the experiences I have gained. I worked at one place that had a monkey in the worst conditions I have ever seen. I tried to get the owner to fix the problem. That is why I took the job, but when I found out what kind of person the owner was I quit. You can't patronize a place that has bad corporate policies that harm animals like Petland, but if you refuse to go to a place that has people who don't know their stuff about a certain issue, You will not be able to shop anywhere.
If you never do anything to change it then there will never be any change. I chose to spend my money where employees are valued and trained because that's what I want to encourage. I do not give any financial support and I voice my concerns at places that don't meet my standards, which are not that high in the grand scheme of things. It's all I can do to try to get places to see that something needs to be improved and money speaks louder than words.
