nightcrawler
Avid Member
i bet the dog whisperer could train it or any pit for that matter.
Pit Bull Discussion
- Thread starter m1ndless
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m1ndless
New Member
The dog whisperer is a joke, all he does is tell you common knowledge about dogs, and makes alot of money, it's not fair!
KevinA
Avid Member
So you had a dog with a mental defect. Many dogs are born that way. Not all of one breed and none of another breed.
Case in point, my pitt gets attacked by this one crazy insane killer little white fluffy dog a few times a week. It's off the leash and comes running showes its teath and has bitten my dog. It is probably crazy and born predisposed to this type of aggression or learned it by it's owners unknowingly reinforcing the behavior. Do I think all little white fluffy dogs are bad, no. Most of them are in my case, but thats mostly due to owners reinforcing bad behavior and in this ones case may be a defect.
Because you had one bad dog does not mean all of a particular breed have an untrainable mind.
By the way,
my dog was labeled untrainable and high risk. I had to sign liability forms to get her. She had been adopted 3 times and returned because she was "uncontrollable".
Turns out she needed excersize and a strong owner. She has turned out be be an excellent dog and I often let children play with her.
So, you may have had un untrainable dog. I have one that was supposedly "untrainable" and was scheduled to be put down. Turns out the previous owners just didnt know how to take proper care for this particular type of dog. She is completely trained now and is actually one of the best behaved and controlled dogs in the neighborhood.
Case in point, my pitt gets attacked by this one crazy insane killer little white fluffy dog a few times a week. It's off the leash and comes running showes its teath and has bitten my dog. It is probably crazy and born predisposed to this type of aggression or learned it by it's owners unknowingly reinforcing the behavior. Do I think all little white fluffy dogs are bad, no. Most of them are in my case, but thats mostly due to owners reinforcing bad behavior and in this ones case may be a defect.
Because you had one bad dog does not mean all of a particular breed have an untrainable mind.
By the way,
my dog was labeled untrainable and high risk. I had to sign liability forms to get her. She had been adopted 3 times and returned because she was "uncontrollable".
Turns out she needed excersize and a strong owner. She has turned out be be an excellent dog and I often let children play with her.
So, you may have had un untrainable dog. I have one that was supposedly "untrainable" and was scheduled to be put down. Turns out the previous owners just didnt know how to take proper care for this particular type of dog. She is completely trained now and is actually one of the best behaved and controlled dogs in the neighborhood.
Julirs
New Member
Maybe, maybe not. But a good dog trainer knows when the situation is hopeless and dangerous.
m1ndless
New Member
It's easy to make accusations like that over the internet, isn't it.
Like I said, I have never met a friendly pit, and until the day I do, I will continue to critcize them.
I know how to train dogs, and this dog was absolutley untrainable, we tried EVERYTHING for 3 straight years, and after everything she still did not understand sit or stay.
KevinA
Avid Member
on a lighter note
http://youtube.com/watch?v=-zVCYdrw-1o&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=tOAvWbspeSQ&feature=related
Narcoleptic dogs
LoL
http://youtube.com/watch?v=-zVCYdrw-1o&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=tOAvWbspeSQ&feature=related
Narcoleptic dogs
LoL
Kent67
Retired Moderator
All this about fluffy white dogs sure makes you wonder why Mike Vick wasn't breeding, fighting, and hanging poodles in his backyard, huh?
From the website I will link to following, "Merritt Clifton, editor of Animal People, has conducted an unusually detailed study of dog bites from 1982 to the present. (Clifton, Dog attack deaths and maimings, U.S. & Canada, September 1982 to November 13, 2006; click here to read it.) The Clifton study show the number of serious canine-inflicted injuries by breed. The author's observations about the breeds and generally how to deal with the dangerous dog problem are enlightening.
According to the Clifton study, pit bulls, Rottweilers, Presa Canarios and their mixes are responsible for 74% of attacks that were included in the study, 68% of the attacks upon children, 82% of the attacks upon adults, 65% of the deaths, and 68% of the maimings. In more than two-thirds of the cases included in the study, the life-threatening or fatal attack was apparently the first known dangerous behavior by the animal in question."
http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html
If you take a look at the Clifton study, you will see that during the 14 year study, the number of pitbull attacks on people was MORE THAN DOUBLE the next closest breed, the Rottweiler. Know what you own. Be responsible for you and your pet's sake. I don't like the idea of banning any breeds (or species, venomous, etc) but if you're gonna keep that stuff you must be aware of the risks and be prepared to take the consequences if you slip up. Remember the couple in SF whose Presa Canarios ripped apart the neighbor, supposedly while they were on leash being restrained? Those owners did time if I remember correctly.
From the website I will link to following, "Merritt Clifton, editor of Animal People, has conducted an unusually detailed study of dog bites from 1982 to the present. (Clifton, Dog attack deaths and maimings, U.S. & Canada, September 1982 to November 13, 2006; click here to read it.) The Clifton study show the number of serious canine-inflicted injuries by breed. The author's observations about the breeds and generally how to deal with the dangerous dog problem are enlightening.
According to the Clifton study, pit bulls, Rottweilers, Presa Canarios and their mixes are responsible for 74% of attacks that were included in the study, 68% of the attacks upon children, 82% of the attacks upon adults, 65% of the deaths, and 68% of the maimings. In more than two-thirds of the cases included in the study, the life-threatening or fatal attack was apparently the first known dangerous behavior by the animal in question."
http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html
If you take a look at the Clifton study, you will see that during the 14 year study, the number of pitbull attacks on people was MORE THAN DOUBLE the next closest breed, the Rottweiler. Know what you own. Be responsible for you and your pet's sake. I don't like the idea of banning any breeds (or species, venomous, etc) but if you're gonna keep that stuff you must be aware of the risks and be prepared to take the consequences if you slip up. Remember the couple in SF whose Presa Canarios ripped apart the neighbor, supposedly while they were on leash being restrained? Those owners did time if I remember correctly.
KevinA
Avid Member
Pretty well said kent,
it's important to note 2 things from you message though.
1-No body said pitt bulls wren't originally bred for pitt fighting. The white fluffy dog example was given to illistrate the fact that other dog breeds can have mental defects and snap
2- the study you cited only has data for reported dog bites. There is pobably 100 times more bites that happen and did not get reported. Pitt bull type dogs are powerful and when the do bite it is often more serious as well as the fact that there is the negative image they have that may cause people to report their bites more.
But all in all I agree with you, people need to take full responsibility and be able to control their pets. That SF. case was a result of the dog overpowering the owner. They were not able to control their dogs and should not have had them.
it's important to note 2 things from you message though.
1-No body said pitt bulls wren't originally bred for pitt fighting. The white fluffy dog example was given to illistrate the fact that other dog breeds can have mental defects and snap
2- the study you cited only has data for reported dog bites. There is pobably 100 times more bites that happen and did not get reported. Pitt bull type dogs are powerful and when the do bite it is often more serious as well as the fact that there is the negative image they have that may cause people to report their bites more.
But all in all I agree with you, people need to take full responsibility and be able to control their pets. That SF. case was a result of the dog overpowering the owner. They were not able to control their dogs and should not have had them.
Kent67
Retired Moderator
http://www.dogexpert.com/Dog%20Bite%20Statistics/DogBiteStatistics.html
From the above website:
"In the United States, pit bulls make up one to three per cent of the overall dog population and cause more than 50 per cent of serious attacks."
"From 1979 to 1998, at least 25 breeds of dogs have been involved in bite related deaths. Pit Bulls and Rottweilers were involved in more than 50 percent of these incidences."
"In a study reported by a retired professor from California State University at Chino, Robert Plum, it was found that one dog in 55 will bite someone seriously during the course of a year. With respect to breed differences in the tendency to inflict serious injury, Plumb estimates that when a pit bull bites a human, one in 16 (e.g. 1/16) will inflict serious injury; this contrasts with a ratio of 1/296 Dobermans, and 1/156 German shepherds. "
"The breeds most often involved in fatal attacks are Rottweilers and Pit bulls."
And of course:
"The breeds most often involved in fatal attacks are Rottweilers and Pit bulls."
"From 1979 to 1996, dog attacks resulted in more than 300 human dog bite related deaths in the United States. Most of the victims were children.
"
From the above website:
"In the United States, pit bulls make up one to three per cent of the overall dog population and cause more than 50 per cent of serious attacks."
"From 1979 to 1998, at least 25 breeds of dogs have been involved in bite related deaths. Pit Bulls and Rottweilers were involved in more than 50 percent of these incidences."
"In a study reported by a retired professor from California State University at Chino, Robert Plum, it was found that one dog in 55 will bite someone seriously during the course of a year. With respect to breed differences in the tendency to inflict serious injury, Plumb estimates that when a pit bull bites a human, one in 16 (e.g. 1/16) will inflict serious injury; this contrasts with a ratio of 1/296 Dobermans, and 1/156 German shepherds. "
"The breeds most often involved in fatal attacks are Rottweilers and Pit bulls."
And of course:
"The breeds most often involved in fatal attacks are Rottweilers and Pit bulls."
"From 1979 to 1996, dog attacks resulted in more than 300 human dog bite related deaths in the United States. Most of the victims were children.
"
Kent67
Retired Moderator
Many breeds have been inbred for so long that it is probably quite common. The point is the difference in damage they do. I believe the latest statistic is that Chihauhuas are actually number 2 or 3 on the most reported bites by breed list. The difference in the physical build and size of a pit bull's head makes the two incomparable. If you read the articles I link to, you will see there are really two issues: dog bites and serious dog bite injuries. Again, comparing pit bulls to little white fluffy dogs is impossible because the issues are totally seperate. All breeds of dog can bite people unexpectedly. Some do it much more often and do much greater damage than others.
m1ndless
New Member
From Wikipedia
"A study published in the Journal of the American Veterinary Medicine Association in September, 2000 reports that in the 20 years studied (1979 to 1998) "Pit-bull type dogs" and Rottweilers were involved in one half of approximately 300 dog bite related fatalities in the US[3].
Another study of American and Canadian dog bite-related fatalities from September 1982 to November 2006 produced similar results, reporting that pit bulls, Rottweilers, Presa Canarios and their mixes were responsible for 65% of fatal dog attacks. [4] This study also noted: "Of the breeds most often involved in incidents of sufficient severity to be listed, pit bull terriers are noteworthy for attacking adults almost as frequently as children."
So pitbulls aren't bad dogs? Riiiiggghht.
"A study published in the Journal of the American Veterinary Medicine Association in September, 2000 reports that in the 20 years studied (1979 to 1998) "Pit-bull type dogs" and Rottweilers were involved in one half of approximately 300 dog bite related fatalities in the US[3].
Another study of American and Canadian dog bite-related fatalities from September 1982 to November 2006 produced similar results, reporting that pit bulls, Rottweilers, Presa Canarios and their mixes were responsible for 65% of fatal dog attacks. [4] This study also noted: "Of the breeds most often involved in incidents of sufficient severity to be listed, pit bull terriers are noteworthy for attacking adults almost as frequently as children."
So pitbulls aren't bad dogs? Riiiiggghht.
bg77
New Member
I think I am Bryant Gibson........Thats me. I dont claim to know it all. I think you are stupid plain and simple.
Really dude chill out.
spatulars
New Member
This argument is really about more than just pitbulls. It's about understanding animals. Many people don't. You can't blame a mountain lion for trying to eat a kid in the mountains. You can't really control that, but in the end, the mountain lion is hunted and killed. You can control dogs to some extent, if you never give them a chance to attack things, they won't, and all crises and deaths are theoretically avoided.
You can't dispute that all animals are different. There ARE some good pitbulls. There ARE some bad pitbulls. Why does the discussion have to involve making them illegal though? I don't understand why people automatically turn to "ban" whenever they experience a problem that would be hard to fix in another way. Hard work with real solutions should always take precedence over indiscriminate bans.
Animals are unpredictable and accidents can be tragic, but say the pitbull that jumped out of the window of the car were fastened inside its seat? Tragedy avoided. An owner aware that even their sweet pitbull (or any other dog for that matter) could turn aggressive or predatory has the responsibility to properly restrain their animal just in case.
I think all animals should be legal to own but that owners should have to prove that they keep their animals responsibly and are aware of the dangers involved with their animal of choice.
If you want to own a Siberian tiger, by all means you should be able to. But before allowed to purchase, you should be able to prove that you have acres of land, high security fencing, proper prey animals, proper veterinary contact, and a good reason to own one, etc etc. If you can prove that you have all that and the money it takes to care for one, the government shouldn't be able to tell you that you can't own one.
It wouldn't be so complicated with pitbulls, just saying, same process. Proper restraint, proper fencing, proper environment, etc IN ADVANCE. Someone walking into a pet store all "yeah pitbulls are so bad@$$ i'm gettin' one" is probably not the best candidate for ownership.
I don't know how you can teach millions of people to have more respect for animals, but it definitely should be done.
In any case, I think a capable and responsible owner can get unlucky when it comes to individual animals. It's sad, but if a dog can't learn how to socialize without extreme aggression, it won't have a proper life, so it really is better to put it down. It sounds like the dog in question was dog-retarded. And if you have had a bad experience with a pit bull, it's very unfortunate, but one or two or five bad or five hundred bad experiences shouldn't make you hate them all, there are thousands of them.
Completely unrelated: On animal cops the other day I saw a brown pitbull with a pure white face! It was such a sweet dog, and it was possibly the cutest dog I have ever seen. Very jealous of the person who got it.
You can't dispute that all animals are different. There ARE some good pitbulls. There ARE some bad pitbulls. Why does the discussion have to involve making them illegal though? I don't understand why people automatically turn to "ban" whenever they experience a problem that would be hard to fix in another way. Hard work with real solutions should always take precedence over indiscriminate bans.
Animals are unpredictable and accidents can be tragic, but say the pitbull that jumped out of the window of the car were fastened inside its seat? Tragedy avoided. An owner aware that even their sweet pitbull (or any other dog for that matter) could turn aggressive or predatory has the responsibility to properly restrain their animal just in case.
I think all animals should be legal to own but that owners should have to prove that they keep their animals responsibly and are aware of the dangers involved with their animal of choice.
If you want to own a Siberian tiger, by all means you should be able to. But before allowed to purchase, you should be able to prove that you have acres of land, high security fencing, proper prey animals, proper veterinary contact, and a good reason to own one, etc etc. If you can prove that you have all that and the money it takes to care for one, the government shouldn't be able to tell you that you can't own one.
It wouldn't be so complicated with pitbulls, just saying, same process. Proper restraint, proper fencing, proper environment, etc IN ADVANCE. Someone walking into a pet store all "yeah pitbulls are so bad@$$ i'm gettin' one" is probably not the best candidate for ownership.
I don't know how you can teach millions of people to have more respect for animals, but it definitely should be done.
In any case, I think a capable and responsible owner can get unlucky when it comes to individual animals. It's sad, but if a dog can't learn how to socialize without extreme aggression, it won't have a proper life, so it really is better to put it down. It sounds like the dog in question was dog-retarded. And if you have had a bad experience with a pit bull, it's very unfortunate, but one or two or five bad or five hundred bad experiences shouldn't make you hate them all, there are thousands of them.
Completely unrelated: On animal cops the other day I saw a brown pitbull with a pure white face! It was such a sweet dog, and it was possibly the cutest dog I have ever seen. Very jealous of the person who got it.
m1ndless
New Member
Don't be an ass, and maybe i'll chill out. People think they can get away with anything on the internet now and days.
Don't make ignorant fucking comments, then tell me to chill out kid.
That's pretty sad, I wouldn't go around admitting that.
m1ndless
New Member
Being a man? Riiiiight.
And actually, you did start, do I need to remind you?
Don't start arguments, and then try to look like the good guy, it doesn't work that way.
There is a difference between attacking someone, and standing up for yourself, you can't go around and call people stupid and ignorant and get away with it, who do you think you are?
Oh yeah, I forgot, Bryand Gibson.
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