Please help!

[flashjord101]

Chameleon Info:

Your Chameleon - 2 year old male Ambilobe panther chameleon. raised since a baby.
Handling - Daily handling. He loves to come out.
Feeding - alternating crickets and silk worms. cricket crack and greens for gutload.
Supplements - Alternate miner-all, calcium with vit D, Herptivite. (however I am only going to give hiom the vit d and herptivite once a month from here out)
Watering - Mist king. 5 minutes every two hours. I do see him drink.
Fecal Description - Never tested for parasites. fecal usually looks healthy brown with an orange ring and then white urate.
History - Came from Kammers.


Cage Info:

Cage Type - DIY cages screen enclosure. 48x24x24
Lighting - 2 repitsun 5.0 tubes. 12 hours on.
Temperature - basking is at 80-85 degrees F. doesn't drop below 60 at night.
Humidity - ranges from 50 85%. humidity comes from the mist king only.
Plants - Ficus Benjamina
Placement - Cage is in dining room. It is relatively close to a cieling heating vent. We have been using it at night. The cage is about 4 feet away from the vent a 3 feet below it. The top of the cage is about 6 feet from the floor.
Location - Venice beach CA.


Current Problem - Here is my situation with Harold. Male Ambilobe Panther 2 years old. Hes been happy and healthy until yesterday he started grasping his front leg with his back feet as he climbed etc. sometimes knocking him off balance and maybe even a fall or 2. I knew this could be a sign of MBD so I took him to the vet . She did xrays and blood test. Bones and everything look good. She said kidney's looked a bit odd so she sent the xray to a colleague and we should have results from the blood test tomorrow.

However she did say he is extremely dehydrated, which surprised me because he eats and drinks regularly and his urate has been white (she said that white urate could actually mean dehydration in this case...) . I have the mist king go for 5 min every 2 hours (which I will increase).

Anyway: she gave me electrolyte solution and said soak him and mist him with it. I got a little over anxious when I got home and put him in his cage I started misting. I thought he was opening his mouth because he was so thirsty but ultimately he was just angry and stressed. Before I realized this I sprayed some of the solution in his mouth. I then ran the mist king and dripper. for a while and he was drinking a lot. Then he started raising his head catching drops from the top of the cage. Something was wrong. I took him out and he had a clear phlegm type fluid all over and inside his mouth. Totally clear. I was able to remove it. He opened his mouth and allowed me to clear it out and he seems fine now (The dehydration and strange behavior still exists, but no more phlegm). I'm thinking I basically choked him with the water when he wasn't looking to drink. Anyone have experience with this?

If I have solved the phlegm problem I now need the best way to hydrate him. Soaking him in pedialyte just doesn't seem like the best plan. It was my first time with this vet. She is an exotics vet but not sure if she's truly a chameleon specialist. He name is Dr. Margolin at Exotic Animal Care Center in Pasadena.

Any help and advice is much appreciated. It's very upsetting to see my pet sick and unhappy. He's also very stressed right now.

thanks,
Jordan

 

[Higgins]

That's a lot of vitamin D in that diet. Were you alternating daily w/the three? So 2/3 days of the week had a D supplement? Is the the Miner-all indoor or outdoor?

Have you heard of the shower technique for hydration?

The vet trip was probably a very good idea, please post updates when they tell you what is going on with those kidneys.

How was the feces? Was the uric acid portion white or more of a yellow/orange/red color?

 

[flashjord101]

The Miner-all is outdoor. yes 2-3 days a week D supplement, which I've stopped (I thought this was the original advice of Kammers). I'm going to try the shower technique in the morning. If you have any suggestions or instructions for shower technique please send them my way. The Urate has been very white of late. his feces have been pretty consistent. with a band of yellow or orange between the brown feces and white urate. I will keep posting until I have this under control. thanks for the help

 

[jannb]

Here's a link to a blog by one of our senior members on how to give showers. I hope your little guy has a full recovery. Jann
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/ataraxia/594-shower-chamber-treatment.html

 

[sandrachameleon]

what brand of calciuim with D3 were you using?

White urate suggests he is NOT dehydrated. But a constant dripper (drip rate of at least 2 per second) is, IMHO, the best way to give lots of water. Along with some hornworms and silkworms.

Are crickets and silkworms all that you offer for prey?

Have you ever offered any preformed vitamin A? as part of gutoad or as supplement?

 

[flashjord101]

repcal is the brand. I know white urate says not dehydrated that's why im perplexed by my vet saying he's dehydrated. Said blood was almost black. I use cricket crack from tiki tiki as primary gutload plus arugala or other greens and oranges. I do offer him meal worms super worms and hornworms from time to time but he's not a huge fan and they are hard to keep. I'll order him some horned worms for this period of recovery and see if he goes for one. he eats silks and crickets basically alternating days depending on his mood. always been a good eater.

 

[ataraxia]

Hi, how old are your uvb lights? Grasping the front legs with the rear legs consistently and to the point of falling would make me think mbd, some sort of neurological problem or organ failure causing other organs to work improperly. If the kidneys are failing both could be a possibility.

Can you post pictures of the chameleon?

I would highly recommend never under any circumstances spraying into your chameleons mouth. If the glottis is open for inhalation of air at the same time you are forcing/misting fluids into the mouth. The higher probability of aspiration.

The phlegm you are noticing. If this is an abnormal amount. Is your animal basking with his head pointed vertical? Do you notice him basking during most of the day light hours? Is he gaping? Do you notice swallowing while in between misting sessions (like while he is basking or just sitting on a branch)?

 

[flashjord101]

Fortunatley the phlegm seems to be a resolved one time occurrence from me spraying directly into his mouth. His head was pointed vertical. I cleaned it out and he is back basking normal. He doesn't seem to be swallowing or acting strange. He is often under basking light but usually moves around quite a bit. Today he is low in the cage and not eating but he had a very stressful day yesterday going to the vet, getting blood taken etc. I plan to use the shower method today and hope not to stress him too much. He is usually an extremely sociable chameleon. I will post some pictures. My goal is to get him hydrated and see what the blood results come back as. Vet thinks possible Kidney issues. Bones look strong and healthy fro xrays. I'll post some pics.

 

[sandrachameleon]

repcal is the brand.

That's a very potent brand. Once or twice a month Max. If you were using this alternating days with the other things (resulting in this D3 product probably being used twice a week) this could be the source of the trouble. Reducing the D3, increasing hydration, and perhaps adding a little preformed vitamin A (via supplement or gutload or with an oral dose the vet could prepare according to the chams weight) could help.