problem with eyes, eating, and blood in poop

[pascalthepanthercham]

My panther chameleon has recently started showing concerning symptoms of what I'm not sure. About 2 to 3 weeks ago I noticed there were signs of blood in his stool not much but still concerning then it didn't show for a couple of days and reappered again. Thats the first thing that had me worried after that I started noticing that he would rub one of his eyes on his vines and do this weird pop out and back in thing keeping the one eye closed and he began to keep the one eye shut from that point on the next problem following the weird eye behavior was a lack in appetite. On and off I've always hand fed him crickets and meal worms but for his regular feeding I would put about 5 crickets in his cage for free range eating and after the eye problem started he wasn't hunting anymore so I thought maybe it was because he was stressed and I tried simply hand feeding him but he wouldn't eat, he would look at the crickets and then turn and move away, which all in all is strange behavior for him because hes never been very shy. Ive had him for a year now when I bought him he was about 4 months old and up until now hes always been in perfect health no problems with anythig he was always very energetic and eager to walk out onto me and chill on my forearm so this drastic change in behavior has me very worried. The last two days I've managed to get him to hand feed but I'm still very concerned because he's still rubbing his eye and today after of a couple of days of no blood in his stool I saw some again. I'm currently looking for a vet in my area but until I find one I thought maybe someone here might have some helpful news for me.

 

[JGuinan007]

Got no advice just see a vet and bring a fresh poop with you. Do you have substrate in the bottom of your cage? Do you feed with wild outside bugs? Notice any irregularities on your chameleons skin? Was your chameleon CB or WC?

 

[pascalthepanthercham]

Got no advice just see a vet and bring a fresh poop with you. Do you have substrate in the bottom of your cage? Do you feed with wild outside bugs? Notice any irregularities on your chameleons skin? Was your chameleon CB or WC?

no substrate its a flat bottom surface, and no I buy his insects from the local petland by my house, so far I've only ever fed him crickets, mealworms, and wax worms, and his skin looks normal today I noticed he's starting another shed by his tail. Honestly I'm not sure what you mean by CB or WC? He's my first chameleon.

 

[Chamel619]

CB = captive bred WC = wild caught

 

[Chamel619]

Could you please go to https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/how-to-ask-for-help.66/
then copy paste with info.

 

[carol5208]

Are you sure it is blood and not orange? Sometimes there will be orange attached to their urate. Maybe you are mistaking that for blood. Do you have a picture of the poop with the "blood"

 

[pascalthepanthercham]

no substrate its a flat bottom surface, and no I buy his insects from the local petland by my house, so far I've only ever fed him crickets, mealworms, and wax worms, and his skin looks normal today I noticed he's starting another shed by his tail. Honestly I'm not sure what you mean by CB or WC? He's my first chameleon.

CB

 

[pascalthepanthercham]

Are you sure it is blood and not orange? Sometimes there will be orange attached to their urate. Maybe you are mistaking that for blood. Do you have a picture of the poop with the "blood"

It didnt seem orange but I'll take a better look at the next dropping and a picture that I'll post in the morning

 

[pascalthepanthercham]

Could you please go to https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/how-to-ask-for-help.66/
then copy paste with info.

Your Chameleon - Panther chameleon, male, 16 months old. Ive had him for a year.
Handling - Sometimes but not overly often, usually when he chooses to walk out onto my forearm before or after a feeding.
Feeding - Crickets, mealworms, and wax worms. Before this recent problem, he was eating 5 to 6 crickets daily and wax worms or meal worms as a treat. I would put the crickets in his cage after I turned his daylights on in the morning 11am for free range feeding. I gutload my crickets with fresh fruits or flukers orange cube complete cricket diet and zilla cricket drink with calcium.
Supplements - reptical powder every other feeding.
Watering - Monsoon RS 400. Every hour for 18 seconds. Yes I see him drink very often.
Fecal Description - Creamy white liquidy with some small solid dropping in the center a kind of brownish evergreen color if that makes sense and then the recent added color of what I think is red but as has been pointed out to me may be orange but I have to take a better look and no never tested for parasites.
History - None that I can note that hasnt been said already.
Cage Info:
Cage Type - Mesh cage no substrate. 18"×18"×36"
Lighting - Exo-terra, night heat lamp 50w, reptiglow daytime basking heat lamp 50w, and 26w desert uvb lamp (this lamp has been recently put in and I am in the process of replacing it because I ordered tropical but was sent desert and didnt want to leave him with nothing in the mean time). Day lights go on at 11am night lights go on at 11pm.
Plants - No live plants just store ordered vines winding and ranging in height from floor to cage top and silk leaves along side cage walls and back.
Placement - Located in back corner of my bedroom. I have no fans or vents in the room just one small window which is at the complete opposite side of my room from his cage the only contact he gets from it is natural sunlight that hits his cage at a certain time of day which he usually basks in and theres never anyone in my room so he doesnt have any traffic passing his cage. His cage sits on top of a crate that sits on my floor the crate is 14" in height from my floor.
Location - I live in new york in a house.
Current Problem - as stated above.

 

[carol5208]

Why are you using lights at night? I know you have been doing this for awhile, but it really is better to let them sleep in the dark. There are no night lights in nature, except maybe the moon when it is full! What Reptical are you using? Does it contain D3??

 

[pascalthepanthercham]

Why are you using lights at night? I know you have been doing this for awhile, but it really is better to let them sleep in the dark. There are no night lights in nature, except maybe the moon when it is full! What Reptical are you using? Does it contain D3??

the night heat lamp is because it gets really cold in my house at night during the fall and winter season and the brand of reptical is tertafauna and yes it has calcium and d3

 

[carol5208]

I don't know how cold it gets in your house in the winter, but unless it gets in the 40's I would not worry about a light at night. Think nature...they have nothing to warm them at night. It is a natural process for their bodies to cool down. Some people use 50 degrees for a cut off. But hey, it is up to you. As far as the d3, I don not know the concentration of d3 in your supplement. I know Repcal is very highin d3 and can be very dangerous to your chameleon if given too often. Natural d3 is fine, as much as they can get, but artificial is a different story. Does your supplement have Vitamin A? Vitamin A is very important in their diet for their eye health. You can gutload your feeders with things rich in Vitamin A, but it is also recommended to give some in a multivitamin 2 or 3 times a month.

 

[Chamel619]

Your Chameleon - Panther chameleon, male, 16 months old. Ive had him for a year.
Handling - Sometimes but not overly often, usually when he chooses to walk out onto my forearm before or after a feeding.
Feeding - Crickets, mealworms, and wax worms. Before this recent problem, he was eating 5 to 6 crickets daily and wax worms or meal worms as a treat. I would put the crickets in his cage after I turned his daylights on in the morning 11am for free range feeding. I gutload my crickets with fresh fruits or flukers orange cube complete cricket diet and zilla cricket drink with calcium.
Supplements - reptical powder every other feeding.
Watering - Monsoon RS 400. Every hour for 18 seconds. Yes I see him drink very often.
Fecal Description - Creamy white liquidy with some small solid dropping in the center a kind of brownish evergreen color if that makes sense and then the recent added color of what I think is red but as has been pointed out to me may be orange but I have to take a better look and no never tested for parasites.
History - None that I can note that hasnt been said already.
Cage Info:
Cage Type - Mesh cage no substrate. 18"×18"×36"
Lighting - Exo-terra, night heat lamp 50w, reptiglow daytime basking heat lamp 50w, and 26w desert uvb lamp (this lamp has been recently put in and I am in the process of replacing it because I ordered tropical but was sent desert and didnt want to leave him with nothing in the mean time). Day lights go on at 11am night lights go on at 11pm.
Plants - No live plants just store ordered vines winding and ranging in height from floor to cage top and silk leaves along side cage walls and back.
Placement - Located in back corner of my bedroom. I have no fans or vents in the room just one small window which is at the complete opposite side of my room from his cage the only contact he gets from it is natural sunlight that hits his cage at a certain time of day which he usually basks in and theres never anyone in my room so he doesnt have any traffic passing his cage. His cage sits on top of a crate that sits on my floor the crate is 14" in height from my floor.
Location - I live in new york in a house.
Current Problem - as stated above.

Are the night temps there dropping under 55F? Panthers are fine to 55F and can even drop to 50F. (for short periods) Any lights at night, even a red or blue night light can prevent proper sleep and be stressful. If you need supplemental heat at night, a ceramic heat emitter should be used.

Mealworms can be hard to digest. They have a hard exoskeleton and can take days to break down in the stomach. A male sub-adult and adults only need to be fed every other day (Females will need more.) and should be fed in the first part of the day, so that they have time to bask and digest. Put the "flukers orange cube" in the trash, where they belong. Fruits and vegetables are all you need for gut-load. plain water crystals if you breed crickets, but if your buying them every week and feeding them off, they will get enough water from the guy-load.

I dust with calcium (withOUT D3 or phosphorus) just about every feeding, skipping once ever 4 feedings. Multivitamin once every 2 weeks, and calcium with D3 once every 2 weeks. I used my smart phones calendar to set up a schedule with notification of what and when to supplement and keep a log. (I know, I'm a nerd)

An orangeish tint can some times be seen in the urate. (White part of poop) most of the time it will suggest dehydration to some degree. Even if you see him drink, he may not be getting enough. The more orange, the greater the dehydration. Sunken in eyes can also be sign of dehydration, as well as other ailments. I prefer longer misting sessions, less often. Supplemented with a dripper, after I see hes awake. The misting schedule I use starts 2 hours after lights on. He gets a 10 minute misting. Then another 10 minute session 3 hours after that. To finish, a 5 minute session 2 hours after that. The cage is dry before each session and before lights out. I like him to have a chance, not only to drink as long as he wants, but to clean out his eyes. which brings me to, and if I'm understanding your description of the "pop out and back in thing" I would say he has something in his eye. Dust, tree bark, dry skin from last shed, who knows, but something and is "rolling" and "rubbing" it to try and clear it. A good long misting might just help clean it out. In my opinion, a quality misting system is mandatory. (I use MistKing)

A pic of the poop and of the chameleon would also be helpful, if you have the means.

A good reptile vet is hard to find. One with chameleon experience, even harder.

 

[pascalthepanthercham]

I don't know how cold it gets in your house in the winter, but unless it gets in the 40's I would not worry about a light at night. Think nature...they have nothing to warm them at night. It is a natural process for their bodies to cool down. Some people use 50 degrees for a cut off. But hey, it is up to you. As far as the d3, I don not know the concentration of d3 in your supplement. I know Repcal is very highin d3 and can be very dangerous to your chameleon if given too often. Natural d3 is fine, as much as they can get, but artificial is a different story. Does your supplement have Vitamin A? Vitamin A is very important in their diet for their eye health. You can gutload your feeders with things rich in Vitamin A, but it is also recommended to give some in a multivitamin 2 or 3 times a month.

yeah during the winter it can get colder than that but as we're now moving into spring, temperatures are warming up so I'll definitely try things out without the night lamp and see if that helps. I didn't know that about the d3 so thank you! and it doesn't carry vitamin a in it but I do try to gutload my crickets with natural foods that do but I'll also be adding the multivitamin I never thought about that so thank you again Im appreciating all the feedback.

 

[pascalthepanthercham]

Are the night temps there dropping under 55F? Panthers are fine to 55F and can even drop to 50F. (for short periods) Any lights at night, even a red or blue night light can prevent proper sleep and be stressful. If you need supplemental heat at night, a ceramic heat emitter should be used.

Mealworms can be hard to digest. They have a hard exoskeleton and can take days to break down in the stomach. A male sub-adult and adults only need to be fed every other day (Females will need more.) and should be fed in the first part of the day, so that they have time to bask and digest. Put the "flukers orange cube" in the trash, where they belong. Fruits and vegetables are all you need for gut-load. plain water crystals if you breed crickets, but if your buying them every week and feeding them off, they will get enough water from the guy-load.

I dust with calcium (withOUT D3 or phosphorus) just about every feeding, skipping once ever 4 feedings. Multivitamin once every 2 weeks, and calcium with D3 once every 2 weeks. (alternating) I used my smart phones calendar to set up a schedule with notification of what and when to supplement and keep a log. (I know, I'm a nerd)

An orangeish tint can some times be seen in the urate. (White part of poop) most of the time it will suggest dehydration to some degree. Even if you see him drink, he may not be getting enough. The more orange the greater the dehydration. Sunken in eyes can also be sign of dehydration, as well as other ailments. I prefer longer misting sessions, less often. Supplemented with a dripper, after I see hes awake. The misting schedule I use starts 2 hours after lights on. He gets a 10 minute misting. Then another 10 minute session 3 hours after that. To finish, a 5 minute session 2 hours after that. The cage is dry before each session and before lights out. I like him to have a chance, not only to drink as long as he wants, but to clean out his eyes. which brings me to, and if I'm understanding your description of the "pop out and back in thing" I would say he has something in his eye. Dust, tree bark, dry skin from last shed, who knows, but something and is "rolling" and "rubbing" it to try and clear it. A good long misting might just help clean it out. In my opinion, a quality misting system is mandatory. (I use MistKing)

A pic of the poop and of the chameleon would also be helpful, if you have the means.

A good reptile vet is hard to find. One with chameleon experience, even harder.

Thank you so much for this post its really informative Im definitely looking into the ceramic heat emitter and I'll be getting the multivitamin asap. What brand of calcium duster without d3 is it that you use? or better yet where could I order it from? and do you think the gutload cricket drink with calcium Im using is fine or should I consider not using it? He hasnt had a dropping yet this morning but as soon as he does I'll post a picture. Again I can't stress enough how much I appreciate all the feedback I'm getting from you guys.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Thank you so much for this post its really informative Im definitely looking into the ceramic heat emitter and I'll be getting the multivitamin asap. What brand of calcium duster without d3 is it that you use? or better yet where could I order it from? and do you think the gutload cricket drink with calcium Im using is fine or should I consider not using it? He hasnt had a dropping yet this morning but as soon as he does I'll post a picture. Again I can't stress enough how much I appreciate all the feedback I'm getting from you guys.

I cannot believe your house can possibly get below a temperature where you need to add heat. Really, they can cope with the cold at night.

It sounds as if he is trying to clean his eyes. The longer I have chameleons, the more I think an automatic misting system is a necessity, not a luxury even for a single-chameleon household. They need misting for more than just drinking and humidifying the air--they also use mist to clean out their eyes. I learned this from Joel last weekend when we were dealing with the group of four newly imported Melleri with their eyes clamped shut because they were full of debris. They will also have trouble opening their eyes if they are dehydrated because their eyes will dry out and get sticky.

Make sure you buy a misting system that has a pump that can cope with running dry because no matter how careful you are, you will run it dry. A cheap pump gets really expensive when you have to replace it. MistKing has a great system and I think their starter system has a pump that can run dry. I need to check their web site to be sure.

I would like a picture of the stool so I could see the blood you are referring to. If they are severely dehydrated, the urates (the white part) can be quite dark orange. If they have severe diarrhea, sometimes they will have bloody mucus-y stool.

Please post a picture of what you are seeing.

 

[Chamel619]

I have been using Rep-Cal SRP00220, Repashy Superfoods Vitamin A Plus, Repashy Superfoods Calcium Plus, MINER-ALL "Indoor" (has D3) and MINER-ALL "Outdoor". (NO D3) Depending on how much real sun they are getting, will determine how much D3 is supplemented. Usually in the spring and summer months, I don't use D3 at all, as my chameleons live outside and get to bask in real sun every day. During winter, when they might only get 1 or 2 days of real sun each week, is when I use D3. It will be up to you to determine the D3 regiment needed.

I replace all my supplements every 6 months, regardless of the amount left. This is also when I replace my UVB bulb

This is what I use, others will have their favorite brands.

 

[JLP474]

yeah during the winter it can get colder than that but as we're now moving into spring, temperatures are warming up so I'll definitely try things out without the night lamp and see if that helps. I didn't know that about the d3 so thank you! and it doesn't carry vitamin a in it but I do try to gutload my crickets with natural foods that do but I'll also be adding the multivitamin I never thought about that so thank you again Im appreciating all the feedback.

It gets lower than 40° inside your house?

 

[Thechameleonlover]

About the eye, he could be scratching it because he isn't getting enough vitamin A. He can get this by reptivite or other multivitamins