sick cham :-( advise greatly needed

Dawn555125 · Dec 21, 2013

i have had my veiled chsm for about 2 months. He is about 5-6 in from nise to vent and was in good health and had a great appitite when i brought him home. He lives in a 4'x2'x3' screened cage. I read as many sites as i could and keep a uv bulb 12hr on 12hr off and he has a red heat lamp that stays on 24/7 to give him enough warmth and my house bever gets below 65 ( usually stays 70). He didnt really take alot of interest to crickets so i gave him a mealworm and he was hooked on them after that. I then switched to super worms for a better nutrition and would make him deal with eating at crickets at least one every 2 weeks ( like 20 ) He had a great appitite and would eat one of the following per day,14 mealworms/7-10 superwprms/ 10 crockets. He has grape vines and artificial foilage (that in no way can he eat) in his home and even a live ficus.
The problem is he is murdering the poor ficus cause he eats on it so much. I didnt think this was to bad of a thing cause i know he has to be bored alot. He then started shedding and my real problems started. He got dehydrated, i noticed his eyes sinking a tiny bit and knew how to care for it so i showered him and he drank some and i have been misting his cage more freaquently and he also has a fogger that after a few minutes becomes a drip syatem abd i leave it on for 20 min twice daily. His eyes look normal now but when i got him out to shower him i was horrified that he was skinny. I had asked another cham site about his appitie and they said feed him everyother day to avoid over eating. Now that the dehydration is better he will not eat well. He ate 5 superworms the day i showered him and then 7 the next but now he has refused to eat for 2 days now.
His tummy has a bulge in it (i assume from the ficus leaves that he still is eating).
This morning he was dark green with bright yellow and dark green spotted with a black strip up his face (his im very stressed look). I left him be for an hr and then tried to give him a superworm but he wanted nothing to do wiyh my or the food. But aftrr sitting on the couch 30min later i catch him ONCE AGAIN chowing doen on a leaf from his poor manged plant.
Can the ficus hurt him if he eats to much? will it constipate him (bulge tummy very bad stressed mood) ? I love my little Stevie and want to get him back to fat a happy.
Please help
(did this on a phone so sorry for typos and spelling/gram

Psychobunny · Dec 21, 2013

Welcome to the forum

You need to get rid of the red heat lamp being on 24/7.
Chams need total darkness to sleep, and they can see the color red.
It will keep him awake and he will get very stressed.

Use a regular household incandescent bulb (40 to 60W depending on cage size) and place his basking branch at least 10'' below the lamp.

Use a digital thermometer with a wired probe attached to monitor the air temp at his basking spot.
If he is a baby, don't let the temp get above 82F at the basking spot.

Please post a pic of your cage set-up as well as your cham.

Also, so we may better help you and your cham, please fill out the "How to ask for help" form, which can be found at the top of the
page as a sticky.

Kate · Dec 21, 2013

https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-ask-help-66/

Hi Dawn, welcome to the forum. I have given you the link to the form psychobunny referred to. Veileds are known for eating different veg and fruit but I'm not sure about loads of ficus. Hopefully some one more knowledgable will help. In the meantime copy and paste form, and fill it in please. It is a great tool that allows us to check your set up and not ask repeated questions.

ChameleonMom · Dec 21, 2013

Filling in the form will help us indeed, but please also know that chameleons will often go on a hunger strike for a number of reasons, one being that he's stressed, he could be getting ready for a shed or could be bored with food options, etc. For the sake of not panicking, please also know that a chameleon can go up to a week without food, however they cannot go without water, as you've found out.

Please fill in the How to ask for Help form and we can go from there.

Dawn555125 · Dec 21, 2013

I already read the help forum and put this info in my post but here it is again... Chameleon Info:
my Chameleon - veiled chameleon, male, unknown age (is approx 5in from nose to vent, been in my care for about 2 months

Handling - Once a week (he enjoys wandering on the couch)

Feeding - Super worms approx 30 and crickets approx 20 a week (and his ficus plant)

Supplements - calcium dusting in crickets and gut load, i also have zilla tropical mist spray that i used when he was shedding

Watering - a heavy misting in the morning and
evening anlong with a drop system for 20 min twice daily

History - see first post

Cage Info:
Cage Type - 4ft by 3ft by 2 ft screen cage, i would post a pic but do not know how (my phone is my only internet so its difficult to fully work this site

Temperature - hot side is 80-85 cool side 70-75 bottom away from lights 65-70

Plants - live small ficus (according to most of what ive read this was a choice plant for chams, artificial leaf vines (he can in no way eat these or pull apart), and grape vines

Placement - he is in my livingroom, it is only me and im pritty qiiet keepong the tv low and some low music now and then and im udually out during the middle of the day on my days off and then i work 14hr shifts so he gets alot of quiet time.

Location - Blue ridge mountains in virginia usa

other pets - two russian tortoises a chinchillia and a dog. the turtles and chinchillia are also in the same room but are all in different corners and the dog stays outside until evening and then sleeps with me in the bedroom (she is a german shep mix and very laid backing never running inside or barking)

Current Problem - is now skinny (from going on the every other day diet im guessing :-\ ), is not eating or at least not well and wont stop eating the plant.
my biggest question is will eating to much plant leaves be harmful? and how do i get him to gain his weight back and his good appitite?

jannb · Dec 21, 2013

I recommend a fecal to see if he has parasites. I would also offer his fresh veggies and fruits. Veileds love them. Below is how I have successfully raised my veileds.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...-keepers-young-veiled-panther-chameleons.html

Dawn555125 · Dec 21, 2013

the red light at night also is something that can not be fixed due to the turtles also have a redheat bulb that they need at night. he seems to sleep with the red glow in the room ok though cause hes usually still asleep when i first get up and then wakes up when i turn on the lights and move around the house.

thank you for letting me know that he can go the two days and be ok, but i still would feel better if hed eat a bug instead of that stupid plant. i dont want to take it out though cause at least he is eating something right?

Lathis · Dec 21, 2013

Dawn555125 said:
the red light at night also is something that can not be fixed due to the turtles also have a redheat bulb that they need at night.

You'll need to cover his cage to block the turtles' light. Chams can see red light through their parietal eye, even if their eyelids are closed.

Mijah139 · Dec 21, 2013

What are you gutloading your feeders with? Are you supplementing with vitamin d3?

Dawn555125 · Dec 21, 2013

i am using a dry gut load mix bought at the pet store, i also get crickets that are pre gut loaded and then feed them the gut load i have for at least 24hrs before giving them to him

i have no idea where to get D3 or even what it is, i thought this is what the 5.0 uv bulb was for. what does it look like? (is it like calcium dust or a liquid spray?)

and he has refused dinner once again... and this time wanted nothing to do with me and was not happy till i left him be and closed his cage door.

at the least he is still active and will still go from branch to branch around his cage through the day

Dawn555125 · Dec 21, 2013

i put some pictures of him in an album on here and also of his cage.

this may help show size/age and how i have his set up done.

Iluvheidi · Dec 21, 2013

first things first. red light 24 hours doesnt need to be on at night if your house doesnt drop below 70. the color red seems to stress some chameleons out. *edit* Also if the turtles heat lamp is on and its a accross the room it should NOT bother him. the darker the better but I have a space heater with a red coil and my chames dont seem to mind it while sleeping. it sits aboutr 7 feet away* so i would switch that out to a day bulb "blue" or just a 60w-70w soft white bulb that can be found everywhere until the 1st of the year? so stock up as needed. make sure his basking spot is at the right temp and at least 8-10 inches below the right so that he doesnt get to close to the screen top and burn his head. He looks to have slight case of MBD. in the pics his arms are shaped a little funny and his eyes look a little big for his head. I am no vet so someone else my chime in on those to observations. I would slow him down on the worms and try to get him to eat more crickets and if you can get some dubia roaches. they are silent and breed easy. if he wont eat anything but worms dont let him have any for a few days he will eat crickets when he gets hungry. Sometimes my guys just dont want to eat for a day or two then they go back to normal. As with any new chameleon purchase I would say go get a vet to do a fecal float just to make sure he doesnt have any parasites. if you have any questions you can PM and I can share the research ive done. Like i said before im no vet but I have two healthy veileds and two healthy panther chams. GOOD LUCK!

carol5208 · Dec 21, 2013

you are feeding way to many superworms. Supers are very high in fat and a diet high in fat is no good, just as it is no good for us. Also, no heat at night unless the temps get down into the low 50's. Below 70 does not require heat like one of the other members mentioned above.

xraygirl · Dec 21, 2013

You can get calcium with D3 at a reptile/pet store, you'll find it with your other powdered calcium supplements. He needs the 'calcium WITHOUT d3' with every feeding, calcium WITH D3 twice a month dusted on crickets, and a multivitamin (make sure it has no D3 in it) powder on opposite weeks of your D3 dusting. You need to get him some calcium WITH D3 asap.

ridgebax1 · Dec 21, 2013

As the others have said you need to provide complete darkness at night for him to get the proper rest. I am assuming the red light is the source for his heat even during the day; you can continue to use that for daytime heat and turn it off at night or you can switch it out for an incandescent household light bulb, you will have to experiment with the wattage to find the one that gives you the proper temps for basking. Incandescents are being phased out though, 75 and 100 watts are no longer available and 60s and 40s will be gone after the first of the year. I use a halogen bulb that looks just like a regular light bulb. It is rated at 100 watts and uses only 72 watts and it works well. D3 is important to help with calcium metabolism and you are correct that is one of the reasons for a UVB light but they still need supplemented twice a month; they also need vitamins twice a month. Most keepers use powdered supplements dusted onto feeder insects such as crickets. I agree with Carol that you are feeding way too many supers/mealies. While supers are nutritionally better than mealies they are still poor as a staple feeder; You need to add more variety; I feed crickets, roaches, hornworms, silkworms, butterworms, phoenix worms and occasionally wax worms. Horns and silks can help with hydration since they have more moisture content. Phoenix worms are excellent feeders with a proper calcium to phosphorous ratio. Stevie doesn't look particularly skinny or dehydrated but if you have noticed a change then I believe you. I am not sure that he is showing signs of MBD either. It probably would not hurt to have a vet look at him and test his stool for parasites; his lack of appetite could just be him getting older. As an adult chams don't need as much food as babies. He looks like he could be 5 or 6 months old. Do you weigh him? I have a postal scale that I use to weigh Omar. He is six months old and weighs 120gms.

PoshPenny · Dec 22, 2013

D3 allows the absorption of calcium and the UVB light does too. You should check out jannb's blog on keeping veileds. My veiled murdered her ficus the first week she got it and pooped a whole leaf once. I thought for sure her butt would prolapse. I simply offered more finely chopped mustard greens to her. Sounds like your guy would love a salad. I give my female veiled a salad a day with chopped fruit, plus her feeders.

sandrachameleon · Dec 22, 2013

Lathis · Dec 22, 2013

It's a lot to take in, and can seem overwhelming. Just remember, we are here to help you, and we want you to succeed! Sandra's blogs are full of probably the best and most detailed nutritional information that you can find anywhere.

PoshPenny · Dec 22, 2013

Oh man Indian walking sticks sound cool, googling those now. I love this forum!

**On second thought they don't seem easy to come by, why can't I live in canada

Dawn555125 · Dec 22, 2013

Thank you all for your advise, it has helped.

i turned out all the lights (even moved the turtle closer to the heater so theres could be turned off also). He seemed to move much slower this morning when i turned everything back on but was not showing stress colors and stayed his plessant mint green all morning.

He had no interest in the romain lettus so i hung it all over his ficus and then found him nibbling it later on this morning.

He drank some water this morning and seems in a much better mood. I also redid his cage making a better watering spot and a new pattern to wander. This always seems to cheer him up when i do this and he patiently waited and watched as i moved his branches and vines around with fuss or stressing out. He even played in his fogger like he use to for a good 5 min.

He still has not eaten a bug but i feel much more comfortible with him eating the lettus than the ficus since romain lettus is about 60% of my turtles diet and i have had them for over 5yrs now without a single health issue. So thank you for that advise, i never would have thought to give him that.

Im gut loading some crickets this afternoon and will give them to him tomarrow night.
If he still has a low appitite the vet said after the holliday to bring in a sample and they will check for parasites.

Hopefully my worries will be over soon and he will eat right and put back on his weight.

sick cham :-( advise greatly needed

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