Sick, Not Eating, Sunken Eyes
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sandrachameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
glad he is drinking
you must be very careful not to let him or cause him to aspirate. So no, do not put more liquid into his mouth when he has is open like that. Indeed when/if you have to force feed, the liquid should be put into his throat (not his mouth)
some gutloading info for you:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/75-feeder-nutrition-gutloading.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/659-green-leafy-goodness-gutloading.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...just-crickets-roaches-gutload-everything.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/697-dry-gutload-mix-august-2012.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/823-august-2013-dry-gutload-mix.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/215-oxalic-acid-content-vegetables.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...-nuts-seeds-healthy-part-perfect-gutload.html
you must be very careful not to let him or cause him to aspirate. So no, do not put more liquid into his mouth when he has is open like that. Indeed when/if you have to force feed, the liquid should be put into his throat (not his mouth)
some gutloading info for you:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/75-feeder-nutrition-gutloading.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/659-green-leafy-goodness-gutloading.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...just-crickets-roaches-gutload-everything.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/697-dry-gutload-mix-august-2012.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/823-august-2013-dry-gutload-mix.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/215-oxalic-acid-content-vegetables.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...-nuts-seeds-healthy-part-perfect-gutload.html
sandrachameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
I agree.
I know you went to an emergency vet, but now its time to go to an exotics specialist.
MelissaB
Avid Member
I'm sorry, I'm pretty new at this, myself. I've never taken my guy in the shower, so I don't know if his behavior is normal.
If he was dehydrated, he may have been keeping his mouth open to collect water. I've read, here, that sometimes an overheated cham will turn lighter colors, but I honestly have no idea if that's why your guy turns almost white in the shower. Is the water really warm/hot? If they are too hot, they'll keep their mouths open to let off heat, kind of like a dog pants to release heat.
ETA: Sandra gives really good advice, I think I'd do what she says
If he was dehydrated, he may have been keeping his mouth open to collect water. I've read, here, that sometimes an overheated cham will turn lighter colors, but I honestly have no idea if that's why your guy turns almost white in the shower. Is the water really warm/hot? If they are too hot, they'll keep their mouths open to let off heat, kind of like a dog pants to release heat.
ETA: Sandra gives really good advice, I think I'd do what she says
Thanks for the advice regarding him keeping his mouth open. I did want to ask because of the force feeding nature of the situation; how do i know when its appropriate to put more food or liquid in his throat? At times he keeps his mouth open and does not close it. Does that imply he is breathing through it or just trying to soak up the steam or something? I am tempted and have been putting more food and liquid into his mouth to seize the opportunity because he has been very fussy lately.
Sorry, just trying to find the best way to get some food and vitamins in his system along with a good amount of water too.
teejayteej
New Member
do you have the vent going when you are taking a shower? When you are in the shower and you have the hot water making steam it actully takes some of the oxygen out of the air. If there is too much steam you may even get light headed and pass out.
This in the reason you have these over head fans in the bathrooms with out windows. Most people don't know this. it may be that the shower is steaming up the bathroom too much and your Cham is trying to get cool and oxygen. if you arehaving problems keeping you humitity up try running a cool mist humitifer in the same room that the cham is in. (not in the cage or next to the cage-just in the same room) see if that will help.
This in the reason you have these over head fans in the bathrooms with out windows. Most people don't know this. it may be that the shower is steaming up the bathroom too much and your Cham is trying to get cool and oxygen. if you arehaving problems keeping you humitity up try running a cool mist humitifer in the same room that the cham is in. (not in the cage or next to the cage-just in the same room) see if that will help.
Hey everyone, it is now day three of the rehabilitation of Theo and things have really plateaued. He is sorta drinking, i am still force feeding him the baby food mixed with calcium at the moment but he is not wanting to eat any of the bugs in his cage.
I may want to try crushing some bugs up for him and making it into a paste as some users suggested. I am really stuck as to how to get him to eat normally again, what i should do essentially. He still persists on opening him mouth up wide right after these injections into his throat this time, sitting there with it open for lengths of time. I am not sure if i am going far enough that he is still forced to open his mouth wide open after.
Any thoughts are much appreciate it. What about the heat light and UVB bulb.. should they be on all the time day and night because is weak at the moment or should it be going off every 12 hours or so?
I have also diluted some reptile multivitamin and water and have given that to him tonight as well along with the baby food. I will try and get some updated picture of him for everyone to see his progress
I may want to try crushing some bugs up for him and making it into a paste as some users suggested. I am really stuck as to how to get him to eat normally again, what i should do essentially. He still persists on opening him mouth up wide right after these injections into his throat this time, sitting there with it open for lengths of time. I am not sure if i am going far enough that he is still forced to open his mouth wide open after.
Any thoughts are much appreciate it. What about the heat light and UVB bulb.. should they be on all the time day and night because is weak at the moment or should it be going off every 12 hours or so?
I have also diluted some reptile multivitamin and water and have given that to him tonight as well along with the baby food. I will try and get some updated picture of him for everyone to see his progress
sandrachameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
no lights at night. they need sleep
I suggest taking him to a vet
I suggest taking him to a vet
Sandra, i really do appreciate you taking the time to help me out here and give me advice. I am working on bringing together some funds to goto the vet. This unexpected visit to the ER was not cheap and has drained my funds currently.
I will take him there, but in the mean time, i cannot afford it just yet. This is why i am trying my best to ensure i can get him back to health or close to it before i go see someone.
Thanks in advance for all your help and the others who have provided some insight. If anyone has any other suggestions to help out in the mean time that would be great.
Just saw your thread tonight for the first time. I have one suggestion. Take the temperature at the basking spot to confirm you are actually at 28C. If it is to low, they quit eating.
sandrachameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
I totally respect you're doing all you can. some vets will do payment plans, if that's an option you might want to explore.
I wouldn't put food or water in his mouth if he appears to be gaping from heat or for air or due to stress.
If you have a kitchen scale, weigh him daily so you know if he is loosing (or gaining) weight.
Im sorry don't have any more advise to offer from afar.
nb's suggestion about checking heat is good one.
Thanks for understanding, been trying to help to the best of what i have here without spending a lot on useless things. I have been saving all of my money to get him to see professional help.
Do you think he is opening up for heat? It is more likely stress because i have to open his mouth as he wont naturally and that can be stressful as is. I usually use a think card and place it in his mouth to slip it inside and pry it up a bit. Then place the syringe inside to get him some food or water in his belly.
It has only been recent that he has followed up with keeping his mouth open after for some reason. He usually just walked away and then opens his mouth and keeps it open as i assume he swallows the liquid. I have been placing the liquid further back, in his throat as per recommendation and i have turned off the lights and such so he can get some sleep.
I am just wondering how i can go about re-introducing crickets for him to eat?! I trust he should want to do it on his own but at this point he has no interest in them at all. He just sits and watches them and really ignores them. Not sure how i can just entice him to try one and that may get him going.
Checked the temperature at his basking spot and yup as per my OP its around 26-29°C and does fluctuate a little bit when the mister comes on. It cools it done for sure. I have always wondered if i should find a way to warm that water so its not so much of a shock to the cage with cold water.
Do you have any suggestions regarding a dripper?
Hi Sandra,
I just wanted to quickly ask you one more question, you mentioned that the lights need to be off at night as he needs to sleep too. What about the misting system? Does that need to be off too? I find that if it runs all night, at specific intervals, it really brings the temperature down inside the cage and perhaps that is not necessary. But, if he need humidity during that time, perhaps it needs to be running too.
Thanks in advance
I just wanted to quickly ask you one more question, you mentioned that the lights need to be off at night as he needs to sleep too. What about the misting system? Does that need to be off too? I find that if it runs all night, at specific intervals, it really brings the temperature down inside the cage and perhaps that is not necessary. But, if he need humidity during that time, perhaps it needs to be running too.
Thanks in advance
Psychobunny
Avid Member
I also just now saw this thread, I agree with this, you need to verify your
basking temps with a different themometer.
Use a digital one with a probe. Place the probe in the spot where your cham
sits to bask, and moitor the temp for several minutes.
It's happened to me before too, temp way off somehow, cham not eating,
etc.
Proper basking temp is super critical for your cham.
If he never gets to reach optimal body temp, he will NOT eat because he will not be able to digest any food.
If you havent done so already, go double-check those temps RIGHT NOW!
Even if you do think they must be right.
I agree with you 100% and as per your comment i went to check right away what his basking temperature was. I have attached a photo of the gauge i have to check his basking spot right where he usually sits. It is reading right now: 27.9 to 28°C.
Please keep in mind that once the mister goes off to bring up the humidity, the temperature of his basking area goes down a couple points. Naturally because the water inside the mister is cold as appose to warm.
A little update for everyone: I wanted to get him eating bugs again so what i tried this morning was to pseudo force feed him some crickets. I had picked up a 3 week old cricket, nice and tiny, and placed it in front of his face. He didn't budge or want to eat it on his own. I opened his mouth and placed it on his tongue and he crunched it up and swallowed it. I was able to get approx 3 crickets in him before i put him back. Me just opening his mouth like that stresses him out and i try not to do it for an extended period of time. But, i figured if i could get him started on the taste of bugs instead of baby food he would come around and start eating on his own.
Not sure if this is the best thing to do and i am open to suggestions.
Attachments
Psychobunny
Avid Member
Okay, I read over your posts, lots of great advise about gut loading and such, but none of that explains why he will not eat.
You have also verified your temps!?
I saw the pics you posted, and your cham looks sick to me.
I do not know what that strange bump is either, unless it's a leg fracture?!
At this point, I dont think there is anything out of place in your husbandry
to make him sick.
It's time for a reptile vet visit before he dies (sorry to be so blunt).
If you do not have the $$, any good vet will make payment arrangements
with you when they realize you are having a bad time.
You have also verified your temps!?
I saw the pics you posted, and your cham looks sick to me.
I do not know what that strange bump is either, unless it's a leg fracture?!
At this point, I dont think there is anything out of place in your husbandry
to make him sick.
It's time for a reptile vet visit before he dies (sorry to be so blunt).
If you do not have the $$, any good vet will make payment arrangements
with you when they realize you are having a bad time.
Just a little update:
Today i fed him approx 3 crickets this morning, unfortunately he didnt want to eat them by himself so i had to open his mouth to do it. He was receptive once the crickets were in his mouth and he chewed them up no problem.
This afternoon, i wanted to give him 3 more crickets before i left for work. The first one was the same situation as per morning, i had to open up his mouth and place it on his tongue. I dusted all 3 crickets with some reptile multi-vitamin. The second one was much larger, but, to my surprise, when i dangled it in front of him he actually opened up on his own!
I placed it right on his tongue but as he was starting to chew the cricket got out. So picked it up again and dangled it and he opened up again to eat it! Dropping it in this time he crunched him up real good.
Unfortunately the 3rd one i couldn't replicate the same success and i had to place it on his tongue.
After the meal, we followed up with some water to wash it all down via syringe.
I cant tell if i am making progress or not as i dont have a kitchen scale to weigh him but i would think that feeding him bugs is better than feeding him baby food. I think this is the case where he might develop the taste for bugs and go for them himself.
My biggest fear is that he will get used to being fed like this and wont hunt on his own. Not sure how to balance this out.
Today i fed him approx 3 crickets this morning, unfortunately he didnt want to eat them by himself so i had to open his mouth to do it. He was receptive once the crickets were in his mouth and he chewed them up no problem.
This afternoon, i wanted to give him 3 more crickets before i left for work. The first one was the same situation as per morning, i had to open up his mouth and place it on his tongue. I dusted all 3 crickets with some reptile multi-vitamin. The second one was much larger, but, to my surprise, when i dangled it in front of him he actually opened up on his own!
I placed it right on his tongue but as he was starting to chew the cricket got out. So picked it up again and dangled it and he opened up again to eat it! Dropping it in this time he crunched him up real good.
Unfortunately the 3rd one i couldn't replicate the same success and i had to place it on his tongue.
After the meal, we followed up with some water to wash it all down via syringe.
I cant tell if i am making progress or not as i dont have a kitchen scale to weigh him but i would think that feeding him bugs is better than feeding him baby food. I think this is the case where he might develop the taste for bugs and go for them himself.
My biggest fear is that he will get used to being fed like this and wont hunt on his own. Not sure how to balance this out.
sandrachameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
hi
sorry for the delay getting back to you.
I wouldn't run the mister at night.
I know you can have terribly dry air in Alberta, so if the air is dry and your home doesn't have a humidifier, you might consider one for the cham room. But as a cheap fix, get a couple bath towels wet, and hang those over the cage at night. This ups the humidity without getting the cage wet. You don't want the cage /branches wet all night. A drop in humidity at night is okay, so long as during the day he has 50-70% and sufficient drinking water
Im a big fan of drippers, so if you want to add ones of those along with your mister, go for it. Just needs to drip fairly quickly (a couple drips a second until he learns it) onto leaves to catch his attention. Even if it only drips for an hour, its a good addition to try.
Im actually not a fan of showers - I think they are very stressfull for little gain (you can achieve the same effect through misting /spraying and with drippers on the cage.)
I wonder if maybe you should stop forcefeeding for a couple days. give him opportunity eat on his own. I wonder if he wasn't eating because he was dehydrated, but perhaps now you've got that mostly resolved....?
do you know anyone with a kitchen scale? ask all your family and friends. It would help to weigh him today and then again in several days to know if he is gaining or loosing weight.
sorry for the delay getting back to you.
I wouldn't run the mister at night.
I know you can have terribly dry air in Alberta, so if the air is dry and your home doesn't have a humidifier, you might consider one for the cham room. But as a cheap fix, get a couple bath towels wet, and hang those over the cage at night. This ups the humidity without getting the cage wet. You don't want the cage /branches wet all night. A drop in humidity at night is okay, so long as during the day he has 50-70% and sufficient drinking water
Im a big fan of drippers, so if you want to add ones of those along with your mister, go for it. Just needs to drip fairly quickly (a couple drips a second until he learns it) onto leaves to catch his attention. Even if it only drips for an hour, its a good addition to try.
Im actually not a fan of showers - I think they are very stressfull for little gain (you can achieve the same effect through misting /spraying and with drippers on the cage.)
I wonder if maybe you should stop forcefeeding for a couple days. give him opportunity eat on his own. I wonder if he wasn't eating because he was dehydrated, but perhaps now you've got that mostly resolved....?
do you know anyone with a kitchen scale? ask all your family and friends. It would help to weigh him today and then again in several days to know if he is gaining or loosing weight.
