substrate in reptarium?

[Chameleopatrick]

If you have a chameleon lacking vitamins (like mine was) it will try and eat the dirt just because it wants more vitamins or whatever. I added more calcium to his crickets and multivitamins (dusted heavier I mean) and he STILL was eating the dirt.

How do you KNOW that chameleons don't consume dirt or sand in the wild?
Every type of chameleon I've kept has at one point has eaten sand or dirt. It may be a nutritional deficiency, but do you know ? After all these years it doesn't seem abnormal at all to me.

If I use a potted plant that contains soil, I usually cover the soil with clean sand. If the chameleon eats it, then he eats it. Won't kill them.

Substrate isn't necessary primarily because most chameleons in the pet trade are arboreal not ground dwellers. However if you were housing Namaquensis then it certainly would be necessary.

I'll bet the average chameleon in the wild gets its share of dirt, sand, and small pieces of bark.

 

[Oliviabryant]

Then go to their native area and get soil and stick it in there. You have to take in account what could in be the soil we use..

 

[juice28]

Agreed. All of my enclosures are fully planted, I use sand/peat moss mix. The chameleons are smart enough to wait for their feeders to not be on the substrate before shooting them. I have an aversion to anything that does not look natural in their habitats. No paper towels or newspaper for me.

can you post a pic of your cage? i see tons of plain bare bottom but not many fully planted set ups. How is that with cleaning?

 

[Chameleopatrick]

Then go to their native area and get soil and stick it in there. You have to take in account what could in be the soil we use..

On another note. Hope to see you next month at the NWCKS. Sept. 14.

 

[ataraxia]

In the field necropsy have shown small pebbles/rocks in the digestive tract of chameleons. They arent for sure if it is accidental collects from hunting close to the ground or if it an animals way of getting rid of some parasites.

Not every chameleon chooses to eat soil/sand but if yours happens to be a window licker...
I dont believe sand or soil pose a huge risk other than causing health issues from repeatedly eating soil or sand that has been defected on and not properly cleaned up/replaced. This is the reason most choose to cover with large stones that easily can be washed. Much easier than re-potting your plant or removing spots and replacing..

 

[Mike Fisher]

can you post a pic of your cage? i see tons of plain bare bottom but not many fully planted set ups. How is that with cleaning?

Cleaning is pretty easy. Put on gloves pick out poop. Same way you deal with it on the plant leaves. I do stir it up and add to the top layer on occasion. Usually when I add organic fertilizer at the base of each plant, then cover it with a thick layer of soil.

 

[Oliviabryant]

I'm waiting until my better half and I buy a house and then we are doing a full on room with live plants actually in the ground

The outside will resemble this

 

[Chameleopatrick]

Cleaning is pretty easy. Put on gloves pick out poop. Same way you deal with it on the plant leaves. I do stir it up and add to the top layer on occasion. Usually when I add organic fertilizer at the base of each plant, then cover it with a thick layer of soil.

Are those the black concrete mixing tubs from yesteryear? Those are still the best baseplate for any screen cage, IMHO.

My former Parsonii enclosures used the 4'x3' mixer with a screen top. Those things are so much better than the flat bottom.

 

[Mike Fisher]

Are those the black concrete mixing tubs from yesteryear? Those are still the best baseplate for any screen cage, IMHO.

Nah, I originally made a few of those but was not happy with them. So I built a thermo-form machine, some molds, and bought some abs sheet and made my own. Then decided to make a few extra and started a cage company in the 90's. I sold a few but not enough to keep doing it. It seems that I was the only one who thought fully planted cages was a good idea at the time. I get back into the hobby, and nothing has changed.

 

[ataraxia]

OMG im in love!

 

[Oliviabryant]

OMG im in love!

Me too!
I'm so exited for my boys to have a full on jungle!

 

[juice28]

I'm waiting until my better half and I buy a house and then we are doing a full on room with live plants actually in the ground

that would be sick!

Cleaning is pretty easy. Put on gloves pick out poop. Same way you deal with it on the plant leaves. I do stir it up and add to the top layer on occasion. Usually when I add organic fertilizer at the base of each plant, then cover it with a thick layer of soil.

cool so it can be done and not endanger the animal. ive been thinking of how to properly do a full planted cage..i know chams dont travel the bottom of the cage but it looks very natural, short ground dwelling plants under a tree like in nature...ofcourse you have to lean it but you have to cleen the drains tables and all that as well...do they drain or does the extra water get absorbed by the plants the are planted down in the dirt?

 

[ataraxia]

Juice28: They will visit the floor of the cage more than you think.
Someone in an earlier post stated they wont shoot a feeder on substrate. Believe me, the statement is not true

 

[Mike Fisher]

.do they drain or does the extra water get absorbed by the plants the are planted down in the dirt?

Yes, mine have weep/drain holes in the tubs, but not in the bottom, or the soil will wash out. About 1/4" up on the back of the tubs. I've tailored my misting cycles to never cause enough water to cause it to need to drain. The drains are only there as a safety feature. If I had to rely on the drains every day, I'd be watering too much, drowning my plants and putting my chameleons at risk for respiratory infection.

I've discovered a direct correlation to the health of my plants to the health of my chameleons. Keep your plants healthy and you have a better chance of keeping your chameleons healthy. If you have to regularly replace your chameleons plants because they are dying, that's not a good sign.

I've learned to be as much as a plant keeper as a chameleon keeper because you need both to be successful with montane species.

 

[Oliviabryant]

http://chamworld.blogspot.com/2008/01/health-section-c-impaction.html?m=1

If you use a fine organic dirt without any added chemicals and have a fully plant enclosure I'm sure it could work fine BUT its best to wait and know your chams personality to determine whether you think they will or will not ingest something like that.

 

[Mike Fisher]

Juice28: They will visit the floor of the cage more than you think.
Someone in an earlier post stated they wont shoot a feeder on substrate. Believe me, the statement is not true

Sorry, I should have been more specific.....
Some will. I know mine have learned not to. When they arrived from the wild, they would. Now they do not. They did get a mouthful of sand a few times before they learned. If I had perlite in there, they most likely would have gotten impacted.

 

[Chameleopatrick]

Yes, mine have weep/drain holes in the tubs, but not in the bottom, or the soil will wash out. About 1/4" up on the back of the tubs. I've tailored my misting cycles to never cause enough water to cause it to need to drain. The drains are only there as a safety feature. If I had to rely on the drains every day, I'd be watering too much, drowning my plants and putting my chameleons at risk for respiratory infection.

I've discovered a direct correlation to the health of my plants to the health of my chameleons. Keep your plants healthy and you have a better chance of keeping your chameleons healthy. If you have to regularly replace your chameleons plants because they are dying, that's not a good sign.

I've learned to be as much as a plant keeper as a chameleon keeper because you need both to be successful with montane species.

Don't let the secret out.

 

[Chameleopatrick]

Some will. If I had perlite in there, they most likely would have gotten impacted.

Not likely. Seen it happen too many times. I'm not saying perlite is good, but any well hydrated chams will just chew it up and pass it.

 

[Mike Fisher]

Not likely. Seen it happen too many times. I'm not saying perlite is good, but any well hydrated chams will just chew it up and pass it.

I lost my very first veiled to perlite impaction caused by a potted plant I got from the nursery. Vet did a necropsy. Ever since, I have never bought a store bought plant. I get them from the forest or propagate them myself. Haven't lost one to impaction since.


Ironically, I do incubate eggs on perlite rather than vermiculite.

 

[Oliviabryant]

Of course there is a direct correlation between your plant staying alive and your Cham doing well. If you can kill a schefflera you shouldn't take care of any live animal. In the same token some people do not know how to properly prune or repot and that can be an issue. Nothing a little research can't fix.