Supplementation of montane chams

[jmart]

I almost lost my male C. deremensis this week.
I came home from training my dog last Sunday, and my male deremensis had both eyes closed. I tried spraying him but they just would not open. I called a reptile vet, but they said there was nothing they could do, as vet has not experience with chams, just snakes and beardeds etc..(one of the disadvantages of having chameleons in Quebec!)
I dripped him 3 x daily and used syringe to put water in him, as he would not drink. I even put some eye ointment on his eyes to see if it would help.
He remained strong and active and had "cleaning action " going on with his eyes. I did not expect him to make it. I came home today and his eyes were open! They are still bothering him, but he ate a bit and drank.
I suspect that maybe I gave him too much calcium and vitamins?

He got 2 x week calcium(no D3), every 2 weeks, Herptivite and calcium with D3. I am giving this to all my chams, except a bit more Ca for the baby panthers.
Does someone who has this kind of chameleon have any experience to share or tell me what mistake I made?
He seems to be out of the woods, but maybe not entirely.
Hope this was not too long.
Thank you

 

[FFSTRescue]

Was the only issue that his eyes were closed? Did he have a strong grip and was able to climb and move around on your hand but his eyes were still closed? My young deremensis do that all the time. I have had them since hatchlings and they are 6 months now, and I used to freak out when they wouldn't open their eyes and they'd just sit there on my hand without moving, like they were sleeping during the middle of the day and I could not wake them up. I'd panic and flush out the eyes and put ointment in them, just to have them open them, look at me, and be very annoyed with me.
It is almost like this species shuts down occasionally during the day because they have such slow metabolisms. I wouldn't worry too much about it and start putting ointment in healthy eyes. I'm not saying there isn't a problem, but my 5 do it all the time, and after I wake them up, they keep their eyes closed for a bit. Keep an eye on him and if you notice anything else like weakness, dehydration, excessive sleeping (besides this), not seeing him drink or eat, etc, then I'd start worrying. Deremensis are odd... I think the regular rules don't apply with these guys... that's why they're my favorite

 

[FFSTRescue]

Oh, and I would not give them so much D3 and multivitamins. I give them D3 once a month and a multivitamin once every 2 months. These guys metabolize vitamins, minerals, meds, etc, very slowly and this stuff can just sit in their systems and cause toxicity.

 

[jmart]

Thank you. He did not eat for the week, as his eyes were closed, but he was active, really weird. He is a wild-caught and has some yellow, hard scabs on his body that do not come off with shedding. I do not think that is related to eye thing , however.
He is kept with no heat light and when I put him outside, it is always in the shade.
Should I feed him daily, like the others?
My male oustalet, follows me with his eyes and starts aiming his tongue at me!! The deremensis is not that bad, but close.

 

[OOOst16]

What type of UVB bulb are you using?

 

[FFSTRescue]

Thank you. He did not eat for the week, as his eyes were closed, but he was active, really weird. He is a wild-caught and has some yellow, hard scabs on his body that do not come off with shedding. I do not think that is related to eye thing , however.
He is kept with no heat light and when I put him outside, it is always in the shade.
Should I feed him daily, like the others?
My male oustalet, follows me with his eyes and starts aiming his tongue at me!! The deremensis is not that bad, but close.

You need to mist him several times a day (at least 5) right now for a minute or more each time to flush out all the vitamins and minerals he has stored up in his system. I can't emphasize excessive hydration enough right now. Lighten up on everything for a while, even calcium. Only give that like once a week and don't give any D3 or multivitamin for a month. If you can have a fine mist spray on him for like 5 minutes a couple times a day, that is the best thing for him right now.

Deremensis are one species that really need to have fecals done. They shouldn't be dewormed without knowing if they have parasites, because the dewormer can be harmful for these guys, but if they have a high parasite load, they really need it. I would do one fecal every two weeks until you have had 3 fecals total done. If they are all clear, then I wouldn't worry about parasites.

As far as the scabs on the body, I have seen this with quite a few imports and it could be parasitic, fungal, bacterial, its hard to say, some chams clear up, some fail. You still need to go see a vet. It sounds like he is in rough shape. I consider any of my cham imports with those black or yellow scabs as critical.

These guys can tolerate cold temps, I keep mine in the shade during the day, I never put them in direct sunlight... they tend to try to avoid it anyway in the wild. I put them in sun dappled areas where the sun shines through the leaves when the wind blows. It really shouldn't get above 80 at the highest, 70 is ideal. Let them cool down at night. If it doesn't get to 65 or lower at night here, I bring them inside and put them in front of the AC where it is about 55 degrees. When I bring them inside, I use a 2.0 bulb (nothing higher) and no heat lamp. I have yet to see these guys ever try to seek out warmth. If you have a large cage, a low wattage basking bulb wouldn't hurt.

I feed the babies 3 times a week with healthy feeders, and a couple days in between with flies (which have very low nutritional value and little fat, which is why they are great feeders). If you feed this guy too much right now, he can suffer from fatty liver disease because when they go from low food consumption to high, hepatic lipidosis and pancreatitis can result, so feed based off his size and maybe try some Blue Bottle flies. It's hard to say how much to offer him because I don't know his size, but it is not nearly as much as a Panther or Veiled or any other cham for that matter. If I go 3 days without feeding my 5, it doesn't hurt them.

Hydrate him well, get the scabs checked out... the vet may have you use a cleanser and use an ointment (I wouldn't recommend systemic antibiotics unless absolutely necessary), and have a fecal done, because the scabs could be related to parasites. Can you post a pic? I'm sure I forgot something, but I'll post it later if I did .

 

[jmart]

Thank you. When his eyes opened yesterday, he ate 1 superworm. I dripped him and he drank a bit, then offered him a little cricket, but he was not interested.
His eyes were closed all day again today.
He is in a 4 ft tall cage, but no uv light, just using light by window for him. It is a bright area, but no direct sun. He also goes out 8 hrs/week, in the shade only.
He never drinks much, neither do my oustalets. The panthers seem to drink the most.
I will try to find a vet that will not kill him. There are no chameleon vets around here.
I have had a female deremensis for a couple of years, but gave her to a friend when her other cham died. She since gave it to someone else, I guess I should have kept her.

 

[xanthoman]

of course they are not drinking, imo, they are suffering from oversupplementation. herptivite 2x a month is way too much, 1x (ultra sparingly) every 4-6 weeks is plenty, and thats for an indoor animal. also uvb does not penetrate well, through window glass. unless youre animal is getting regular unfiltered outdoor light like clockwork, you need to setup with lineal reptisun 5.0 (among several other issues) if youre animal gets regular outdoor light, you should discontinue D3 alltogether. jmo

 

[kinyonga]

You said..."He is a wild-caught and has some yellow, hard scabs on his body"...do they look like little round pox lesions?? Can you post a picture or two of them please?