The Chameleon Community Makes No Progress...

Chad, compete the European classifieds sites with the American ones and you will notice the difference ;) There is only one sort of chameleons which are better breed in the US: "high yellow/orange" calyptratus...
 
Agree with it 100%

i stick with veileds owned over 9 veileds in my life and will get a panther sooner or later no need to rush it, i all so have kept and breed many different types of Herps!!! LOVE IT THOUGH GREAT POST :D
 
eisentrauti said:
Chad, compete the European classifieds sites with the American ones and you will notice the difference ;) There is only one sort of chameleons which are better breed in the US: "high yellow/orange" calyptratus...
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how much more illegal and corrupted is the trade in europe and asia?
 
I have not got a problem keeping multiple species if it is not overdone. I would say if you are mostly working with cool weather species in your reptile room I would not recommennd adding a hot weather species such as F.oustaleti or T.melleri possibly even F.pardalis. However if your starting a breeding colony (breeding more than one or two pairs) or two that you are going to document as a breeding program I would just stay with the one or two species you are working with.
 
One thing about taking some out of the wild...you pretty much ensure that your breeding lines are clean (not related).
 
kinyonga said:
One thing about taking some out of the wild...you pretty much ensure that your breeding lines are clean (not related).
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That makes sense, again something I would personally never do unless I were breeding that species and producing many more animals than I took out of the wild.
 
eisentrauti said:
I just checked kingsnake and I found three species which were offered CB: pardalis, calyptratus and oustaleti. That's it. If anyone takes 1 min of his time to check now one of the pages I mentioned you will see that there are offered min 3-5x more CB species (and not because of the numerous smuggled animals)
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Thanks, that's the summary I was hoping for. I looked at one of the pages, and it didn't make any sense to me, probably because I don't shop for chameleons, much less rare species of chameleons.
 
This I think is a big factor in our dissemination of knowledge is the amount of long term keepers is extremely tiny. There is a small handful of people on here that have more than 5 years experience with chameleons outside of Veileds and Panthers. Most get into the hobby because it's cool, keep some animals for a few years and then the novelty wears off and they move on. Some do attempt breeding the common species but find it too hard to sell them and too expensive to do it again and this further alienates them from the positive aspects of this hobby and are gone. These new people aren't interested in esoteric musings on seasonal cycling of montane chameleons unless they stick with the hobby long term.

Without getting into a discussion about the negative aspects of this hobby (I mean is there as much petty jealousy, back stabbing and drama in say the knitting community?) those conditions do drive these few experienced keepers into private lists, personal emails or phone calls to avoid the common babble and the sometimes prolific off topic banter on a forum such as this. (No offense Brad!) I'm guilty of it. I would love to see more threads and discussions in the advanced topics section beyond a few photo threads of rare species. What's stopping us?

Anyways, if I had a dime for every time I saw someone enter the hobby, get bitten by the chameleon bug and think they will become the next big thing breeder of rare species x, heck, I wouldn't be keeping bitaeniatus in cages in my apartment, I'd be living in Tanzania and studying them in the wild.
 
KingJulien said:
wow... Is it really unreasonable to ask for an explanation when figuring it out yourself would mean translating several pages? I mean, especially if someone spoke the language and could sum it up for you easily.
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It is not that hard to navigate most the German sites, for example:

http://www.chamaeleon-anzeigen.de/kleinanzeigen

1 Click on the genus you are interested in.
2 Look at the listed animals by scientific name.
3 Biete means offered or for sale, Suche means wanted.
4 NZ means birth year ie year cb, and 1.1 and similar means same as in the US
5 Prices(Preis) are in Euros, but many European sellers do not list prices, you have to inquire.

Enjoy!
 
There are quite a few extremely experienced keepers out there that stay away from these forums. Such as the huge following that was apart of the CIN journals (Chamelen Information Network) and for one reason or another they mostly stay away from the Chameleon Forums. I would encourge them to join and converse with other keepers on the web as these older experenced keepers have got a lot to offer.
 
Motherlode Chameleon said:
There are quite a few extremely experienced keepers out there that stay away from these forums. Such as the huge following that was apart of the CIN journals (Chamelen Information Network) and for one reason or another they mostly stay away from the Chameleon Forums. I would encourge them to join and converse with other keepers on the web as these older experenced keepers have got a lot to offer.
Click to expand...

Well, I don't know about the experienced keepers, but I can see why the less experienced keepers might stay away. :rolleyes:
 
Lloyd Heilbrunn said:
It is not that hard to navigate most the German sites, for example:

http://www.chamaeleon-anzeigen.de/kleinanzeigen

1 Click on the genus you are interested in.
2 Look at the listed animals by scientific name.
3 Biete means offered or for sale, Suche means wanted.
4 NZ means birth year ie year cb, and 1.1 and similar means same as in the US
5 Prices(Preis) are in Euros, but many European sellers do not list prices, you have to inquire.

Enjoy!
Click to expand...

This is great information thank you. I just wanted to understand the conversation around the OP's point withough spending an hour reading things I don't understand. Remember, a noob (as myself) doesn't know what species is typically available in the US as CB or not, for how much money, and all that good stuff. This would not be just a matter of translating for me.
 
I like all the different personalities on this forum, after being a part of it for so long I almost think of it as a family. at times some of the threads can head down a negative direction and really dampen all the good that does come of this forum. I have been inspired by the many up and coming generations of young members that are so responsible in their care and practice, and as they age they will only add more to the world of chameleon care. this has been a great place for people with just a love of chameleons, come together and feel "normal" and have a safe place to talk about their chameleon interest. for these and many other reasons, I am grateful for this forum and all the work that goes into maintaining such a large forum. :) I am also thankful for the great advice that I have received and used over the years, many kind hearts are here.
 
Thanks Trace, Lynda, Jeremy for your insight. I'd really like to inspire a movement of some of the more advanced keepers to collaborate and communicate more freely.

I'd like to hear from others as I'm afraid this thread lost some of it's steam but not it's relevancy.
 
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