The Concerns About the Recent Cameroon Imports

[Chris Anderson]

Chris- what is T. feae being imported as, because I don't remember ever seeing that (of course, I have really only paid attention the past few years, not the full 2001-present)

Chase

Thats the point. T. feae are not being exported. Equatorial Guinea was issuing permits for T. feae, a native species they had the legal right to export, and sending T. montium, which is not native and which is a violation of CITES.

Chris

 

[CarlC]

Thanks for clearing things up Chris!

Carl

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Thanks for the clarification/data post Chris.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

 

[Mike Fisher]

Mike do not be a joy kill a night of talking chameleons with a group of chameleon keepers instead of typing on a keyboard is GOOD.

I won't killjoy your clandestine meetings if you don't single me out by name for sharing "breeding secrets" publicly on CF. Deal?

 

[Chase]

Thats the point. T. feae are not being exported. Equatorial Guinea was issuing permits for T. feae, a native species they had the legal right to export, and sending T. montium, which is not native and which is a violation of CITES.

Chris

Oh ok, thank you for clearing that up. But when the shipments come in, how are the T. montium labeled as such instead of as T. feae, or am I misreading what you've written?

Chase

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

I won't killjoy your clandestine meetings if you don't single me out by name for sharing "breeding secrets" publicly on CF. Deal?

Were all Good! Singling you out for breeding secrets was not my intention. If we have an more public meeting and your around I am going to make certain I send you an invite.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

 

[Mike Fisher]

As far a sharing tips and tricks of breeding, I must mention that the most successful breeder of Kinyongia mutituberculata, Louis DeMais shared all of his breeding secrets on Chameleon Forums.

He was a model of sharing information that we should all strive for. With everything he posted, we should have CB K. multi coming out of our ears by now.

Why don't we? Because nobody cared to actually apply what he showed us. So we can't complain in a few years when they are not available to us anymore.

 

[GCash]

I won't killjoy your clandestine meetings if you don't single me out by name for sharing "breeding secrets" publicly on CF. Deal?

I'll take credit for that Mike. Sorry. Won't happen again.

 

[Chris Anderson]

Oh ok, thank you for clearing that up. But when the shipments come in, how are the T. montium labeled as such instead of as T. feae, or am I misreading what you've written?

Chase

They were listed as T. feae on the CITES documents, but then were sold as T. montium once they were in the US. Obviously this suggests that the importers were well aware that the animals were misrepresented on the CITES documents. In 2012 CITES issued a ban on any T. feae exports from Equatorial Guinea, however, so they can no longer do that. Given that they do it with other species that do not occur in the country, I suspect they will just be exporting them as T. montium on the paperwork now.

Chris

 

[laurie]

I'm new here and would like to know, is it proper etiquette amongst breeders to bring your host a gift of panacur and flagyl?

I really don't know, but if it is, drop by anytime.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

As far a sharing tips and tricks of breeding, I must mention that the most successful breeder of Kinyongia mutituberculata, Louis DeMais shared all of his breeding secrets on Chameleon Forums.

He was a model of sharing information that we should all strive for. With everything he posted, we should have CB K. multi coming out of our ears by now.

Why don't we? Because nobody cared to actually apply what he showed us. So we can't complain in a few years when they are not available to us anymore.

You and Paul are breeding them. Actually I have got some good news that is not ready to post yet . I just made a deal not to single out captive breeders that I am attempting to keep that promise. However there is the prospects of a 3rd breeder though.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

 

[Mike Fisher]

You and Paul are breeding them. Actually I have got some good news that is not ready to post yet . I just made a deal not to single out captive breeders that I am attempting to keep that promise. However there is the prospects of a 3rd breeder though.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

Yes, thank you for correcting me. Less than one handful, so still basically nobody.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Yes, thank you for correcting me. Less than one handful, so still basically nobody.

PM arriving. Louis was 1 individual/breeding program and had difficulties selling all of his captive bred babies? Why would you not need more than a handful of breeders with that situation?

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

 

[laurie]

You and Paul are breeding them. Actually I have got some good news that is not ready to post yet . I just made a deal not to single out captive breeders that I am attempting to keep that promise. However there is the prospects of a 3rd breeder though.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

Paul who? If it is Fowler, I would just like to know.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Paul who? If it is Fowler, I would just like to know.

Since you do not know. Paul Fowler has got a breeding group of Kinyongia multituberculata.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

 

[Mike Fisher]

PM arriving. Louis was 1 individual/breeding program and had difficulties selling all of his captive bred babies? Why would you not need more than a handful of breeders with that situation?

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

Well considering that a high number of WC imports came in last year and they sold, there should at least be an equal market for the CB if they are marketed well and priced competitively.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Well considering that a high number of WC imports came in last year and they sold, there should at least be an equal market for the CB if they are marketed well and priced competitively.

If the 3 of you are breeding your colonies and think you can sell all the captive bred babies go for it! There had been some past experiences that had some difficulties.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

 

[Mike Fisher]

If the 3 of you are breeding your colonies and think you can sell all the captive bred babies go for it! There had been some past experiences that had some difficulties.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

I'm aware of past difficulties in selling them, however I don't forsee any problems selling the ones I produce.

 

[OldChamKeeper]

On the issue of the Quad import.... did anybody else see how choice those three animals were that was recently purchased directly from Backwater reptiles? Those two females were fabulous and they didn't end up in any of the collections of the Quad project. Says a lot about the importer we won't mention here.


Laurie do you have an update? Did you finally get any of your animals after all this work and what condition were they in?

 

[laurie]

On the issue of the Quad import.... did anybody else see how choice those three animals were that was recently purchased directly from Backwater reptiles? Those two females were fabulous and they didn't end up in any of the collections of the Quad project. Says a lot about the importer we won't mention here.


Laurie do you have an update? Did you finally get any of your animals after all this work and what condition were they in?

My chams are with a close friend in OH. Condition? Well we just lost one tonight. Couple more a pretty sick. Hope some of them live long enough I get to see them. I guess you don't want to hear what a total fiasco this import has been for me. If I didn't love quads and want so much to see them established in the US, I would give up. But I am just to stubborn to quit.