The Concerns About the Recent Cameroon Imports

[Chase]

I'm having trouble with acronyms. Some I read once but have forgotten.

CBB?
CIN?

Thanks.

CBB- Captive Bred and Born
CiN- Chameleon information Network

Chase

 

[Kent67]

How many others besides Mike Fisher remember the CiN's mission statement?

I read it three days ago and don't remember it now. Lol

Speaking of cool, old books....anyone still have Masters of Disguise kicking around? Still a fantastic book for the photos and I've seen it really cheap recently.

 

[Chase]

I read it three days ago and don't remember it now. Lol

Speaking of cool, old books....anyone still have Masters of Disguise kicking around? Still a fantastic book for the photos and I've seen it really cheap recently.

I've thought about getting it, like you said, it's pretty cheap

Chase

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Jeremy,

I remember Ardi's farewell all too well. Thankfully Bill, Ken and Don continued with chameleonnews.com, and I was ecstatic to find Bill and Chris members here. It's the dedicated keepers like these we all owe a huge debt of gratitude for their dissemination of knowledge. How many others besides Mike Fisher remember the CiN's mission statement?

And let's not forget, Reptiles Magazine "incorporated" The Vivarium.

Eaten alive.

Gene

Mergers happen I just would have preferred that Reptiles Magazine have merged with The Vivarium. The Reptiles Magazine was a bigger company however I preferred the material in the articles in Vivarium Magazine.

I think many keepers on the Chameleon Forums are living the inherent meaning of the CIN mission statement now. As far as participating there are opportunities to contribute here. I wrote one article for the CIN when I was in High School and talked to Ardi regularly along with many other experienced keepers. The Forums people have the opportunity to write informative Blogs. Along with starting breeding coalitions or groups with other members such as Kinyongia Chameleon Keepers and or Trioceros Quadricornis Coalition.

The Chameleons Forums with the advances of technology actually has many advantages that the CIN could not compete with. Such as Ardi answering 50 phone calls a night about chameleon health problems she could not personally address without even seeing a picture of the chameleon she was trying to help. Progress is being made I think we have produced some good results. The Chameleon Forums is the next step.

No one is eaten Alive.

Best Results
Jeremy A. Rich

 

[ponders]

I read it three days ago and don't remember it now. Lol

Speaking of cool, old books....anyone still have Masters of Disguise kicking around? Still a fantastic book for the photos and I've seen it really cheap recently.

This one?

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

This one?

I think I actually have got 2 copies of that book. The male Orange Eye Parsonii was actually one that live with a keeper who lived in San Fransisco. One of the best true blue Orange Eyes I have ever seen.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

 

[OldChamKeeper]

I read it three days ago and don't remember it now. Lol

Speaking of cool, old books....anyone still have Masters of Disguise kicking around? Still a fantastic book for the photos and I've seen it really cheap recently.

Still got my copy.

 

[Kent67]

I remember hearing the cover was Magellan who, like most of the animals in that book, was owned by Todd Risley.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

I remember hearing the cover was Magellan who, like most of the animals in that book, was owned by Todd Risley.

Kent

We have got two separate stories then. I heard it was a wholesalers from San Fransisco. That particular Parsonii he kept for himself and they used for a pictures for that book. Great Parsons the legend grows. If most of those chameleons were owned by Todd the most credible answer would be that that Parsons was from Todd.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

 

[GCash]

Gene

Mergers happen I just would have preferred that Reptiles Magazine have merged with The Vivarium. The Reptiles Magazine was a bigger company however I preferred the material in the articles in Vivarium Magazine.

I think many keepers on the Chameleon Forums are living the inherent meaning of the CIN mission statement now. As far as participating there are opportunities to contribute here. I wrote one article for the CIN when I was in High School and talked to Ardi regularly along with many other experienced keepers. The Forums people have the opportunity to write informative Blogs. Along with starting breeding coalitions or groups with other members such as Kinyongia Chameleon Keepers and or Trioceros Quadricornis Coalition.

The Chameleons Forums with the advances of technology actually has many advantages that the CIN could not compete with. Such as Ardi answering 50 phone calls a night about chameleon health problems she could not personally address without even seeing a picture of the chameleon she was trying to help. Progress is being made I think we have produced some good results. The Chameleon Forums is the next step.

No one is eaten Alive.

Best Results
Jeremy A. Rich

Thank you, Jeremy. If you and possibly others think I'm overlooking all the wonderful members who contribute, I'd better clarify.

#50
12-28-2014, 05:21 PM

Mike Fisher
Senior Member

Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Salem, Oregon
Posts: 1,483
Blog Entries: 1


When I decide what incubation method I intend to try next, I'll let everybody know. I don't believe in keeping stuff secret because we can all learn more and if it works it can benefit all captive chameleons, not just mine.

And if it doesn't work, we'll all know not to do that.

Thank you to all who keep the spirit of the CiN's mission statement alive and don't mind sharing their experiences.

Being a former lithographic printer, I'm well aware that print is dead. And if you look closer at my post, you'll see I acknowledge the evolution of the CiN to chameleonnews.com to Chameleon Forums and give praise to the "keepers like these", not "these keepers" only, that disseminate information for the good of all.

All sorts of entities are "eaten alive" everyday in the world of business and profit (and in nature for that matter) which is the context of that portion of the conversation. In fact, it's the natural habitat of these wonderful creatures that is being "eaten alive" by human encroachment that is endangering them in the first place.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Thank you, Jeremy. If you and possibly others think I'm overlooking all the wonderful members who contribute, I'd better clarify.

Thank you to all who keep the spirit of the CiN's mission statement alive and don't mind sharing their experiences.

Being a former lithographic printer, I'm well aware that print is dead. And if you look closer at my post, you'll see I acknowledge the evolution of the CiN to chameleonnews.com to Chameleon Forums and give praise to the "keepers like these", not "these keepers" only, that disseminate information for the good of all.

All sorts of entities are "eaten alive" everyday in the world of business and profit (and in nature for that matter) which is the context of that portion of the conversation. In fact, it's the natural habitat of these wonderful creatures that is being "eaten alive" by human encroachment that is endangering them in the first place.

Who said we had to post openly on a thread? I am going to a Forums members house tomorrow to have a good conversion or two about breeding and etc... That is going to be extremely in the statement of what the CIN was about day and nobody is going to be eaten alive. It is going to be quite cordial actually. Mike is posting openly on posts what most people prefer posting their information privately through other means emails, phone numbers, texting, or pm's and other secure places. Which legally makes a lot of sense and is still in the spirit of the CIN. This is mostly a hobby for most everybody who is eating anyone?

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

 

[jajeanpierre]

CBB- Captive Bred and Born
CiN- Chameleon information Network

Chase

The Chameleon Information Network is a fantastic web site. I'm just starting to go through it. Am I correct that it is no longer an active organization? It is full of great information.

 

[CarlC]

Has anyone given any thought to these animals not even being exported from Cameroon? Sure some were probably collected in Cameroon but was the shipment actually exported from there? West African, Cameroon, exports have been known to be shipped from neighboring countries.

Carl

 

[jajeanpierre]

Has anyone given any thought to these animals not even being exported from Cameroon? Sure some were probably collected in Cameroon but was the shipment actually exported from there? West African, Cameroon, exports have been known to be shipped from neighboring countries.

Carl

I was told the exporter is in Equatorial Guinea, which is the country bordering Cameroon on the south. I don't know where they actually were exported from. I was also told they were "farmed." Experienced keepers who have received many of these animals tell me that they were not farmed based on the condition of the shipment.

 

[GCash]

Who said we had to post openly on a thread? I am going to a Forums members house tomorrow to have a good conversion or two about breeding and etc... That is going to be extremely in the statement of what the CIN was about day and nobody is going to be eaten alive. It is going to be quite cordial actually. Mike is posting openly on posts what most people prefer posting their information privately through other means emails, phone numbers, texting, or pm's and other secure places. Which legally makes a lot of sense and is still in the spirit of the CIN. This is mostly a hobby for most everybody who is eating anyone?

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

How much further would we be set back if the contributing authors of all the great CiN articles had "had lunch and a conversion or two" instead of publishing
openly for all to benefit? This is the mission statement as I understand it.

As a business owner, I also understand and am even sympathetic to proprietary secrets for self preservation, but in our situation there is another value in the equation besides our self; the animals we all care for and want to preserve.

I make a distinction between legal and ethical.

In regards to the "eaten alive" metaphor, again it is referring to private sector business. Anyone who has truly had to survive and make a living for themselves knows the pressures of what I'm talking about.

I feel this portion of the conversation is becoming repetitive. My apologies to all and thanks to CarlC and jajeanpierre for trying to move it forward. I'll try to follow suit from here.

The only info I have to add on the subject, is that I was told by the importer that the exporter has a East African farm and has just set up his West African "farm" that I guess he travels between to "manage" them both.

 

[frankpayne32]

How much further would we be set back if the contributing authors of all the great CiN articles had "had lunch and a conversion or two" instead of publishing
openly for all to benefit? This is the mission statement as I understand it.

As a business owner, I also understand and am even sympathetic to proprietary secrets for self preservation, but in our situation there is another value in the equation besides our self; the animals we all care for and want to preserve.

I make a distinction between legal and ethical.

In regards to the "eaten alive" metaphor, again it is referring to private sector business. Anyone who has truly had to survive and make a living for themselves knows the pressures of what I'm talking about.

I feel this portion of the conversation is becoming repetitive. My apologies to all and thanks to CarlC and jajeanpierre for trying to move it forward. I'll try to follow suit from here.

The only info I have to add on the subject, is that I was told by the importer that the exporter has a East African farm and has just set up his West African "farm" that I guess he travels between to "manage" them both.

Well said.

 

[Mike Fisher]

Mike is posting openly on posts what most people prefer posting their information privately through other means emails, phone numbers, texting, or pm's and other secure places.

I don't care for those little groups of anointed few guarding the keys to the kingdom, never have. I live my life by the golden rule. Keeping knowledge to oneself that may better the lives of hundreds or perhaps thousands of captive chameleons over the long term is selfish and shows weakness of character.

 

[kameleons jvo]

Has anyone given any thought to these animals not even being exported from Cameroon? Sure some were probably collected in Cameroon but was the shipment actually exported from there? West African, Cameroon, exports have been known to be shipped from neighboring countries.

Carl

Very interesting point you keep on here Carl.
I just had a long talk with my long therm Cameroon exporter in Douala and received some very interesting information
Export permits givin by the Cameroon wildlife officials for 2014 are:
trioceros quadricornis:0
trioceris wiedersheimi:0
trioceros montium :0
trioceros pfeferi:0,
only permits were givin for cristatus,oweni and spectrum.
Very interesting how these came to the US...

 

[johnnyev]

I don't care for those little groups of anointed few guarding the keys to the kingdom, never have. I live my life by the golden rule. Keeping knowledge to oneself that may better the lives of hundreds or perhaps thousands of captive chameleons over the long term is selfish and shows weakness of character.

Well said mike... that's what i thought a chameleon forum was all about.

 

[frankpayne32]

I don't care for those little groups of anointed few guarding the keys to the kingdom, never have. I live my life by the golden rule. Keeping knowledge to oneself that may better the lives of hundreds or perhaps thousands of captive chameleons over the long term is selfish and shows weakness of character.

Well said mike... that's what i thought a chameleon forum was all about.

Hear, hear.