Urgent help needed. Weird swelling behind panther head. Please look and help me.

[Adashek123]

Ive attatched pics. Ive never seen this before. this past 3 months, he has been acting almost completely normal, except for the fact that he cant shoot his tongue as strongly or as far as my other chams. he is also VERY laid back but is alert all day. He has some what strange poop coloring ( brown turds with a whitish/orange ish urate) he eats crickets dusted with repashy calcium plus, hes in a xlarge reptibreeze with live plants, humidity over 50 always

 

[Oliviabryant]

Would you please full this out, also is this your first panther?

https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-ask-help-66/

Incase you didn't know chameleons have fat pads on their heads, it looks like you are just seeing some chub back there but regardless it will help us to see your husbandry incase something is off.

 

[Adashek123]

I have 3 panthers and this guy was my first one. I got him about 8 months ago or more. he was born january 2nd, 2012.

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Male Panther almost 2 years. 8 months in my care.

Handling -almost every other day or so. they all like to come outside in the florida sun, but only if humidity is above 60 with little wind and good sunlight

Feeding - Feeders are gutloaded with these green cricket water cubes (forgot the brand but their good) and repashys super pig (yes the crickets eat it because it disapears every day) and sometimes sillkworms and hornworms but not lately.


Supplements - once a week I dust all crickets with repashys calcium plus. i don't do it every feeding because i think that can cause gular edema and a possible overdose of vitamin d3. i am planning on getting a d3 free calcium

Watering - I mist the cage, i never saw him drinking from a dripper. He usually drinks from the mist bottle or off the screen/plants. I mist twice daily only or once sometimes because i live in florida and humidity is good already and doesnt need to be higher because it can cause URI (hes had one before about 6 months ago but was treated at home with baytril from beautifulbeardeddragonrescue.com or whatever

Fecal Description - Has never been tested but I have decided to get a fecal done. Cant get to the vet til next monday though because shes in cali. His poops always had a strange orange urate but a white one too... brown turds look normal though

History - Well, hes friendly, he never shows any aggression) , even when around other males!!!! the only times he gets mad is when you scare him. Obvoiusly, i don't house them together, but i take them outside together and my other panther always opens his mouth and hisses but this guy HAS ONLY DONE IT ONCE. very weird. also


Cage Info: the biggest reptibreeze

Cage Type -screen 2 2 4

Lighting - exo terra, 5.0 uvb changed about 6 months ago but has like a month or two left and he gets natural uvb

Temperature - hot spot is at 92 ish and the rest of the cage is usually 75-82. night time doesnt ever get bellow 65. Thermometer.

Humidity - I have a humidity gauge and I mist... plus i live in florida. and i have a humidifier just incase winter comes quick.

Plants - Pothos

Placement - the cages are on stools. they are close to a window but it never gets direct sunlight. few branches

Location - Florida

Current Problem - Today, while me and my brother where handling him, my brother pointed out these fat looking bumps on the back of his neck. I really don't think I've ever seen them on him before!!! my other panthers don't have it. somemone help me out!!

 

[Oliviabryant]

Do you know his weight? Also can you post pictures of his whole body?
Some times when a panther is overweight theory casque has what looks like bumps because it's very fatty. It's generally not a big issue as long as he is not over fed. As for the guy loading - I would strongly suggest throwing away those cubes, they aren't a real source of nutrition and they easily mold. Making your own gut load or at least using rephashys is better.
As for humidity- what gauge are you using and what does it read at the lowest ?

 

[Adashek123]

the cubes never mold... they are tiny bright green cubes that smell like jolly ranchers. they are from my local herp shop, pinellas county reptiles. they breed chameleons and feed it to theirs and they look great. but how could i make my own gutload?? ive tried potatoes and stuff but that attracts bad insects, smells, germs, and mold. and worst of all, annoying fruit flys. I'd appreciate a better alternative if someone has one, but I think what I'm doing is fine. Yes, ill post some full pics of his body, but trust me, its like a lump kinda think BEHIND the TOP of his head, right before the spikes start. Its weird, and definitely wasnt there a few days ago. again, don't advise me vet visits because the only one I trust in my area wont be available for a week or so. this bump is somewhat prominent and THEY ARE there. soft to the touch, not hard or anything. not normal for sure. here are pics of him and the pics of the lumps are above in original post

 

[Adashek123]

BTW he is normally housed in a repti breeze but is in this temp cage (in pics) because the screen ripped on one side and im fixing it currrently. just saying

 

[Adashek123]

oh and no i don't know his weight. but hes plenty fat, probably over 150. doesnt like to eat every day though. he eats about 12-15 xlarge (roach sized) crickets every other day or two. same with my other adult male, except the other male I have is a GIANT (about 17 inches long but extremely big boned and scratches you up when you hold him) hes about 260 grams and eats 10-25 crickets every day or two or three even, depending on how long he goes without food. but never over 3 days. ever.

 

[Oliviabryant]

It might be even worse that they don't mold, it's probably just supplements in gelatin. Do you know the nutritional content of the gutload you are using ?

As far a gutloading I would read Sandra's blog she has great advice for gutloading
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/75-feeder-nutrition-gutloading.html

As far as the bumps, I guess I'm just not seeing any odd bumps. Maybe someone else can weigh in and see something I'm not. It's just looking like fat to me. (However I am not a vet so I could be wrong)

 

[djfishygillz]

If you live in florida then you have access to anything reptile related especially gutloads... Order cricket crack from one of our sponsors or just read one of the million blogs that are posted on here about gutloads. That green cube crap is useless.

 

[djfishygillz]

Also the swelling is probably from improper gutload and supplementation. Chameleons can easily get build up of excess vitamins and other stuff like that is probably in the green gutload you use.

Also potatoes are not a gutload at all. People just throw those in with bulk crickets so they do not eat each other. Sandrachameleons has a great blog on gutloading I highly suggest you read it.

 

[kevin9]

I dont see anything alarming. He looks like a nice looking non-hungry male (ambilobe ?) panther. 1 recommendation- get the calcium w/o D3 asap and use that more frequently than your calcium with D3. Youll find some pretty detailed supplementation schedules on the forum here.

 

[chameleonowner32]

You just have a really well fed cham. Nothing to worry bout. My male rex has the same thing.

 

[stacy76]

Supplements - once a week I dust all crickets with repashys calcium plus. i don't do it every feeding because i think that can cause gular edema and a possible overdose of vitamin d3. i am planning on getting a d3 free calcium
there are a few things with your supplementation that are off..Many keepers successfully use calcium (without D3 or phosphorus) at nearly every feeding, multivitamin once every 2 weeks, and calcium with D3 once every 2 weeks.

 

[stacy76]

here is a good link https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/panther/

 

[Adashek123]

I will try her gutload and see if it works. i know i don't do anything wrong with supplementing. I dust less then people tell me to and i LIGHTLY dust. so it can't be a build up of what your saying... but Thanks for the opinions guys but this bump really does look weird, does anyone have any other opinions on how it looks? its literally a fat pocket RIGHT BEHIND his head and RIGHT BEFORE THE SCALES START (LOOK AT PIC). I just think its extremely strange.... and today he was doing this weird thing. he puffed out his chin (like all the way puffed out, it looked like it was pointy in the front) and it seemed like he was messin with his throat or something. I don't know what it was about, but it seemed like he had something stuck in his throat, but I opened his mouth and nothing. no mucus, no food, nothing. just a completely normal looking mouth

 

[Adashek123]

my calcium already has all the vitamins and minerals in it. Its All in one. Repashys. lol chameleonowner32, can you please post a pic of your male with the fat patch or whatever ? i want to compare.

 

[Oliviabryant]

I would be extremely surprised if it was supplementation... cal plus EVERY OTHER feeding is perfectly fine. The only thing that would contribute to a POSSIBLE negative side effect would be the gut loading and if anything it's probably under supplementing. As far as the "bump" being behind his casque- If you notice behind any chams casque it's a soft spot.. Well when a panther is overweight the chub extends to that area, and when bend their head they basically get a fat roll which is what you are seeing.


What other species do you keep and how long have you had them?


THIS PICTURE SHOW BELOW IS FROM - T.J. Hamilton | The Grand Rapids Press
http://blog.mlive.com/exposure/2010/09/post_92.html#comments


Here is also a picture from epic chameleons (link)-

https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...431888967571&source=49&__user=100000360828242

 

[Oliviabryant]

today he was doing this weird thing. he puffed out his chin (like all the way puffed out, it looked like it was pointy in the front) and it seemed like he was messin with his throat or something. I don't know what it was about, but it seemed like he had something stuck in his throat, but I opened his mouth and nothing. no mucus, no food, nothing. just a completely normal looking mouth

As for your chameleon puffing his throat up, that's a display of dominance and he's protecting his territory. If something were stuck in his throat he would have his head pointed up and you would see him trying to swallow.

 

[chameleonowner32]

Rexs isnt that bad but his casque is nice and muscular. He is really well fed and hydrated.

 

[camimom]

Several things.
Those green cubes for gutloading are crap.

You need to use fresh fruits and veggies. Sandrachameleon has a good blog on gut loading.

Next, if you are referring to the swelling behind the fat pads of the head, that is not normal, if you are talking about the fat pads on the top of the head, he is just very well fed, and could even due with a diet perhaps.

Also, your supplement schedule is all wrong.

There is no evidence that repashy causes edema, and I use it on all my chams.

You are under supplementing him.

You need to be giving the repashy several times a week, OR get a calcium with no d3 for every feeding, a calcium with d3 for twice a month, and a multivitamin for twice a month.