Veiled chameleon not growing

Zevil said:
Yes he's inside. I have to go to work in the morning 8am so I can't really let him out into the sun. I think the T5 5.0 is the best option at the moment. As for the slow growth, I guess it can't be helped.
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Yeah get the T5 5.0 since you can get it now. And I would order the higher strength bulb.
As for the growth... No, not if it is genetic. :(
 
Beman said:
Yeah get the T5 5.0 since you can get it now. And I would order the higher strength bulb.
As for the growth... No, not if it is genetic. :(
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I will do that. Thanks for all the advice and suggestions. Look on the bright side, I have a mini cham.

Oh btw he didn't eat any bsfl today. I wonder if it's because I threw too many crickets and he prefers the crickets over the bsfl.
 
Zevil said:
I will do that. Thanks for all the advice and suggestions. Look on the bright side, I have a mini cham.

Oh btw he didn't eat any bsfl today. I wonder if it's because I threw too many crickets and he prefers the crickets over the bsfl.
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Yeah that could be... Or he is a little stressed from the vet trip.
 
Beman said:
And this...


View attachment 235136
Click to expand...


You are using a source you made yourself, as a source?

I mean come on, even Todd hesitates to sell 12% to first timers.

http://www.uvguide.co.uk/usinguvmeter.htm

If we say a cham is dead centered between high furg 2 and low furg 3, aka 1.0 UVI, you are still a 1 30cm from a "T8" bulb, let alone a T5HO that puts out 300% more light.


I really hope your cage has a gradient down to .5 uvi, and its not at plant pot level where they do not hang out.


I really hope we dont start seeing eye and skin problems from this new wave of 12%/10.0 T5HO recommendations.
 
nightanole said:
You are using a source you made yourself, as a source?

I mean come on, even Todd hesitates to sell 12% to first timers.

http://www.uvguide.co.uk/usinguvmeter.htm

If we say a cham is dead centered between high furg 2 and low furg 3, aka 1.0 UVI, you are still a 1 30cm from a "T8" bulb, let alone a T5HO that puts out 300% more light.


I really hope your cage has a gradient down to .5 uvi, and its not at plant pot level where they do not hang out.


I really hope we dont start seeing eye and skin problems from this new wave of 12%/10.0 T5HO recommendations.
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Are you trying to imply that helicopter mom @Beman doesn't know what she’s talking about? Just because she doesn’t agree with you doesn’t mean you should attack the health of her cham.
 
nightanole said:
You are using a source you made yourself, as a source?

I mean come on, even Todd hesitates to sell 12% to first timers.

http://www.uvguide.co.uk/usinguvmeter.htm

If we say a cham is dead centered between high furg 2 and low furg 3, aka 1.0 UVI, you are still a 1 30cm from a "T8" bulb, let alone a T5HO that puts out 300% more light.


I really hope your cage has a gradient down to .5 uvi, and its not at plant pot level where they do not hang out.


I really hope we dont start seeing eye and skin problems from this new wave of 12%/10.0 T5HO recommendations.
Click to expand...
She was part of the process of making these care images, but she wasnt the only source. The information from those images was produced from several of the most experienced and well respected keepers on this forum. By disrespecting her use of the images, you are also disrespecting all of the people who put their time and knowledge into the creation of those resources.
 
nightanole said:
You are using a source you made yourself, as a source?

I mean come on, even Todd hesitates to sell 12% to first timers.

http://www.uvguide.co.uk/usinguvmeter.htm

If we say a cham is dead centered between high furg 2 and low furg 3, aka 1.0 UVI, you are still a 1 30cm from a "T8" bulb, let alone a T5HO that puts out 300% more light.


I really hope your cage has a gradient down to .5 uvi, and its not at plant pot level where they do not hang out.


I really hope we dont start seeing eye and skin problems from this new wave of 12%/10.0 T5HO recommendations.
Click to expand...
You were a part of the image that you are now not agreeing with.... So NO, I did not create these on my own. Which you know... I involved not only experienced members but Deca and Brad both had final say over edits of the info being provided. So I take offense to your implication.

And yes... I have gradients down to no UVI throughout the cage. 4 pothos plants. It is a heavily planted enclosure. I have a solarmeter 6.5 that I use regularly to check everything.

So my sources are Arcadia https://www.arcadiareptile.com/guide/

And multiple podcasts by Bill Strand with experts in the field... I am pulling my info from leaders in the Chameleon Hobby.

So when I tell people it is not only what I have learned from the above mentioned sources it is also with my hands on use with a solarmeter 6.5... Which is why I also tell people that the only way to know an exact is to have the solar meter. As fixture type and how many bulbs plays into UVI levels as well.

I have multiple basking points ranging from 7-9 inches... I am accounting for his body being higher off the branch as well. And I take offense to you saying that I am Baking my cham... When I not only have bought the necessary tools to double check but I have also spent a lot of time learning about this and what is best for my cham.


I have great respect for you but battling me over this issue is not going to do you or I any good.
 
Beman said:
You were a part of the image that you are now not agreeing with.... So NO, I did not create these on my own. Which you know... I involved not only experienced members but Deca and Brad both had final say over edits of the info being provided. So I take offense to your implication.

And yes... I have gradients down to no UVI throughout the cage. 4 pothos plants. It is a heavily planted enclosure. I have a solarmeter 6.5 that I use regularly to check everything.

So my sources are Arcadia https://www.arcadiareptile.com/guide/

And multiple podcasts by Bill Strand with experts in the field... I am pulling my info from leaders in the Chameleon Hobby.

So when I tell people it is not only what I have learned from the above mentioned sources it is also with my hands on use with a solarmeter 6.5... Which is why I also tell people that the only way to know an exact is to have the solar meter. As fixture type and how many bulbs plays into UVI levels as well.

I have multiple basking points ranging from 7-9 inches... I am accounting for his body being higher off the branch as well. And I take offense to you saying that I am Baking my cham... When I not only have bought the necessary tools to double check but I have also spent a lot of time learning about this and what is best for my cham.


I have great respect for you but battling me over this issue is not going to do you or I any good.
Click to expand...


Please show me any sources that show a UVI over 2.0 is within the healthy range for any chameleon. I can not find any of the bill strand pod casts that give numbers. I can not find any source that says a 4.0 is optimal other than the newly revised Arcadia site. Every other site has the value at 4x-8x lower than that.


This site will give you uv indexes for every island, through out the day.

https://www.madcham.de/en/lokalform-ampitabe/

http://www.licht-im-terrarium.de/vitamind/start

http://www.licht-im-terrarium.de/_media/vitamind/2016_swunderlich_uvb_krokodile.pdf

http://www.licht-im-terrarium.de/vitamind/ferguson

I cant dig up my archives of the scientist that went to Madagascar, and measured "where the chameleons hanged out most" and put up a uvi meter with simulator. They found that after about uvi 1.0, the chams no longer basked at the spots, so they would bask sunrise to 8-9am, and then come back towards dusk.




Im not going to post on this/argue again unless i can find some more credible sources. Even if a chameleon is a furg 3, 3 is 1.0 - 2.6, not 3-4. 3-4 is dangerous to European humans after 30min long term.

And remember this very site, up to the point when Todd opened up light your reptiles, the gold standard was a zoomed 5.0 T8, and people where arguing the safety of a 10.0 T8 for a beginner.




And no i did not approve that graphic, i argued and provided data over and over, and just gave up when at least a 6% was mentioned in the graphic.
 
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nightanole said:
Please show me any sources that show a UVI over 2.0 is within the healthy range for any chameleon. I can not find any of the bill strand pod casts that give numbers. I can not find any source that says a 4.0 is optimal other than the newly revised Arcadia site. Every other site has the value at 4x-8x lower than that.


This site will give you uv indexes for every island, through out the day.

https://www.madcham.de/en/lokalform-ampitabe/

http://www.licht-im-terrarium.de/vitamind/start

http://www.licht-im-terrarium.de/_media/vitamind/2016_swunderlich_uvb_krokodile.pdf

http://www.licht-im-terrarium.de/vitamind/ferguson

I cant dig up my archives of the scientist that went to Madagascar, and measured "where the chameleons hanged out most" and put up a uvi meter with simulator. They found that after about uvi 1.0, the chams no longer basked at the spots, so they would bask sunrise to 8-9am, and then come back towards dusk.




Im not going to post on this/argue again unless i can find some more credible sources. Even if a chameleon is a furg 3, 3 is 1.0 - 2.6, not 3-4. 3-4 is dangerous to European humans after 30min long term.




And no i did not approve that graphic, i argued and provided data over and over, and just gave up when at least a 6% was mentioned in the graphic.
Click to expand...
All your material is out dated dude look at the years that was all published 2014 2009 it’s 2019 bro go with the change
 
nightanole said:
Please show me any sources that show a UVI over 2.0 is within the healthy range for any chameleon. I can not find any of the bill strand pod casts that give numbers. I can not find any source that says a 4.0 is optimal other than the newly revised Arcadia site. Every other site has the value at 4x-8x lower than that.


This site will give you uv indexes for every island, through out the day.

https://www.madcham.de/en/lokalform-ampitabe/

http://www.licht-im-terrarium.de/vitamind/start

http://www.licht-im-terrarium.de/_media/vitamind/2016_swunderlich_uvb_krokodile.pdf

http://www.licht-im-terrarium.de/vitamind/ferguson

I cant dig up my archives of the scientist that went to Madagascar, and measured "where the chameleons hanged out most" and put up a uvi meter with simulator. They found that after about uvi 1.0, the chams no longer basked at the spots, so they would bask sunrise to 8-9am, and then come back towards dusk.




Im not going to post on this/argue again unless i can find some more credible sources. Even if a chameleon is a furg 3, 3 is 1.0 - 2.6, not 3-4. 3-4 is dangerous to European humans after 30min long term.

And remember this very site, up to the point when Todd opened up light your reptiles, the gold standard was a zoomed 5.0 T8, and people where arguing the safety of a 10.0 T8 for a beginner.




And no i did not approve that graphic, i argued and provided data over and over, and just gave up when at least a 6% was mentioned in the graphic.
Click to expand...
Then you should have said more on the image. And honestly I find it very frustrating that you did not. With everyone that was involved... You should have spoken up if you were not satisfied. I asked if everyone was good with the final graphic and you said yes. So now you can't come back and say that you didn't approve because you did in the conversation... . That is not ok to me.

And honestly I am done talking about any of this. Have a lovely weekend.
 
JoXie411 said:
All your material is out dated dude look at the years that was all published 2014 2009 it’s 2019 bro go with the change
Click to expand...


Any new data that shows uvi 2.0 is good would be appreciated. And data I posted was collected 2014-2016. Even the "older" data has edits showing revised in 2014-16.

Again the only " new source" is the new Arcadia site.
 
Beman said:
Then you should have said more on the image. And honestly I find it very frustrating that you did not. With everyone that was involved... You should have spoken up if you were not satisfied. I asked if everyone was good with the final graphic and you said yes. So now you can't come back and say that you didn't approve because you did in the conversation... . That is not ok to me.

And honestly I am done talking about any of this. Have a lovely weekend.
Click to expand...
 
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Chameleomom said:
The book Fire the Sun which Todd was part of states...... UV index at basking level is a 3 to 5 and at the cool end is a 0 to 3
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OK now i have to get this book. You would not believe the amount of warning labels you would get from Todd if you ordered a double bulb from him with 2 12% in it. On top of that, my conversations with Todd stated my 1.0 level was on the money. Now Todd is saying 3-5 at basking... Im not even sure how to create that with just a single 12%...
 
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