Veiled female MBD, possible constipation
- Thread starter Riven
- Start date
I hope that might be what it's from, but I am afraid it might be something else (worse). The sagging started 2 days after our last force feeding, and is getting progressively worse. 
It sags more now, and I haven't seen her close it all the way since we got home today.
She was MAD when we got home. Apparently she didn't like the neighbor caring for her. She seems overall stronger but just off. Is it possible that she has a vitamin deficiency? Or possible infection from where I was pulled on her chin? The skin there is black and sloughing. Here is the newest pic from tonight. She has a little bit of white on her from oral calcium.
Her jaw isn't hanging open, but her lip is...
It sags more now, and I haven't seen her close it all the way since we got home today.She was MAD when we got home. Apparently she didn't like the neighbor caring for her. She seems overall stronger but just off. Is it possible that she has a vitamin deficiency? Or possible infection from where I was pulled on her chin? The skin there is black and sloughing. Here is the newest pic from tonight. She has a little bit of white on her from oral calcium.
Her jaw isn't hanging open, but her lip is...
ataraxia
Avid Member
the longer you wait to solve this issue the quicker this chameleon is going to die period. IMO i have not read through this thread but the title does point to the cause of organ failure (im assuming is the cause of his eyes closed and sunken turrets). From the pic your cham is very ill from a multiple of reasons including malnutrition, dehydration and possible impaction. If you want to save this chameleon these forums arent going to pull a rabbit out the hat for you. See a vet asap. sorry if i sound rude but this chameleon looks miserable.
campbellashley93
New Member
Off topic
I do not know If Im blind But I want to post a picture of my female veiled to see If anyone can give me apprx. age.... I dont know how to add pics?!
I do not know If Im blind But I want to post a picture of my female veiled to see If anyone can give me apprx. age.... I dont know how to add pics?!
ataraxia
Avid Member
scroll to the top of the page. you should see a word in blue underlined named chameleon forums. Click that then click general discussion. then click new thread. host your image on a site like imageshack.us. once you upload a picture copy and paste forum code in your message.
Ataraxia, if you had read through the thread you would know that she has advanced MBD, that we've been force feeding her up until the last 4 days, and she's been to the vet several times. I'm currently stuck between trying to force feed her and continuing to cause tissue damage to her. She is eating on her own somewhat.
I have been doing everything with the help of people on here and the vet that I can for her. I understand that you guys are not vets, I understand that you all don't know everything, but neither do I, and the only vet within 2 1/2 hours of me, if over 1 hr away and he is doing the best he can with the lizard experience he has. He does do exotics, and is the best we have around, but when he doesn't see then everyday ( simply because we don't have the massive populations that the cities do ) it makes a difference. Sometimes I have questions that I can not get answers to, so I have to make an decision on how to deal with it. I started this thread admitting that I obviously did not have the proper information when we got her, and we were not given that information when we got her. If we did we would not be forcing oral calcium, injections, and food. There has not been a night when I don't think as we're trying to get her to eat or I'm again injecting her, is this the right thing for her. Should we just take the "easy way out" and have taken the replacement cham we were offered.
Kinyonga, thank you. That is what I needed to know. The vet is not just down the street, it's a half day ordeal, not an after work run. It's not easy for me to just run her there for every question. I don't know if this is a normal issue seen with MBD or even something normal that happens to chams. The last thing she needs right now is to be stressed by being taken to the vet again so something that might be normal.
I have been doing everything with the help of people on here and the vet that I can for her. I understand that you guys are not vets, I understand that you all don't know everything, but neither do I, and the only vet within 2 1/2 hours of me, if over 1 hr away and he is doing the best he can with the lizard experience he has. He does do exotics, and is the best we have around, but when he doesn't see then everyday ( simply because we don't have the massive populations that the cities do ) it makes a difference. Sometimes I have questions that I can not get answers to, so I have to make an decision on how to deal with it. I started this thread admitting that I obviously did not have the proper information when we got her, and we were not given that information when we got her. If we did we would not be forcing oral calcium, injections, and food. There has not been a night when I don't think as we're trying to get her to eat or I'm again injecting her, is this the right thing for her. Should we just take the "easy way out" and have taken the replacement cham we were offered.
Kinyonga, thank you. That is what I needed to know. The vet is not just down the street, it's a half day ordeal, not an after work run. It's not easy for me to just run her there for every question. I don't know if this is a normal issue seen with MBD or even something normal that happens to chams. The last thing she needs right now is to be stressed by being taken to the vet again so something that might be normal.
Elizadolots
New Member
She really is looking better. BocaJan has been through this before and says it's probably from the forced feeding. As she's ill, her bruising is likely to be delayed and protracted.
Riven, you've gone beyond the pale for this animal. Everyone who's been reading through knows that. As a parent, I can't help but think what a wonderful lesson you are teaching your child.
Riven, you've gone beyond the pale for this animal. Everyone who's been reading through knows that. As a parent, I can't help but think what a wonderful lesson you are teaching your child.
I forgot to post I got her some reptiaid today when we were in the big city of Omaha. I grabbed it just in case. I remembered seeing something about it, but couldn't remember if it was something I should be using. I figured I'd rather have it and not need it than the other way around. Should I use this to help her calorie intake?
I know vitamin supplementing was brought up, they didn't have anything like that there we could find. What kind should I get? Will the reptiaid help with that? Unfortunately tonight we were back to force feeding... we found the last three worms we thought she ate in the papers lining her cage tonight... Hopefully tomorrow she'll feel stronger and eat again on her own, before the escape. We'll be supervising her again to make sure she's getting them in.
Elizadots, you've been really great about helping and being supportive. I couldn't have done most of this without the help of people like you on the forum here. My vet is good, but there are people with a myriad of experiences not just with MBD but general care and sick care that have been so valuable to me.
I know vitamin supplementing was brought up, they didn't have anything like that there we could find. What kind should I get? Will the reptiaid help with that? Unfortunately tonight we were back to force feeding... we found the last three worms we thought she ate in the papers lining her cage tonight...
Hopefully tomorrow she'll feel stronger and eat again on her own, before the escape. We'll be supervising her again to make sure she's getting them in.Elizadots, you've been really great about helping and being supportive. I couldn't have done most of this without the help of people like you on the forum here. My vet is good, but there are people with a myriad of experiences not just with MBD but general care and sick care that have been so valuable to me.
Argh... this morning she seems a little more weak kind of... she is actaully doing amazingly better on the hind legs, she's doing less work with her tail though... not sure if that's good or bad, and now her "good" front leg seems to be having issues.
The vet suggested .01 mL of the injectable calcium once per day, is this adequate? I think that part of it might be might fault as well, since we got the new UVB bulb I've been putting her outside less than before. Of course today is totally overcast, cold, and rainy...
She watched the worms this morning, but didn't attempt to eat. The tip of her tongue was sticking out a little, and she didn't drink much.
I'm debating on giving some subq fluid, thoughts on that?
The vet suggested .01 mL of the injectable calcium once per day, is this adequate? I think that part of it might be might fault as well, since we got the new UVB bulb I've been putting her outside less than before. Of course today is totally overcast, cold, and rainy...
She watched the worms this morning, but didn't attempt to eat. The tip of her tongue was sticking out a little, and she didn't drink much.
I'm debating on giving some subq fluid, thoughts on that?
Judging by the picture from yesterday subq fluids would probably be a good idea! Where are you giving the calcium injections?
Dawniegirl
New Member
I just wanna say I feel for you. I've been reading your thread and checking in here and there. I am dealing with a sick cham myself... I know how hard it is and it seems as you are doing all you can for your cham. Hang in there.. I wish her and you the best!!!
Elizadolots
New Member
You know, I think you're going to see this sort of "teeter totter" recovery. Progress in one area seems to go with a fall off in another. In every recovering animal or human I've ever dealt with, that happened.
I would definitely give her the Reptaid, per the instructions. There have been numerous reports on here about that being very helpful.
I admire your dedication to this.
Tonight she was a lot more spunky. She drank a lot! I watered down the retpaid to put in her water dropper.
She didn't eat but really worked her tongue drinking, more than I've seen so far in our journey. She really thought about and did some "practicing" of the tongue movements for eating.
I gave her fluids subq again, twice today in two different locations each time. The last time she turned and hissed at me, and is fighting it more. I put her in her cage hoping she'd eat, she thought about it and decided she was done for the night and I watched as something miraculous happened... she stood up. Her whole belly off the ground, up on her front and hind legs and she stood there. Call me a baby ( I cry when kids cry too, makes me a terrible phlebotomist ) but I almost cried. She half walked, half crawled to her sleeping spot then...
She hasn't really eaten much, we opened her mouth three time but couldn't get her to eat a butter worm force feeding, I wasn't going to tear up her skin anymore if she is going to fight it that much. I think the reptaid ( or hoping perhaps ) is helping her get more energy. It is similar to what we have for chins who go off food call Critical Care ( CC ), but is it enough to sustain them if needed? I know a chin can live off CC with proper amounts, so I wasn't sure.
She didn't eat but really worked her tongue drinking, more than I've seen so far in our journey. She really thought about and did some "practicing" of the tongue movements for eating.
I gave her fluids subq again, twice today in two different locations each time. The last time she turned and hissed at me, and is fighting it more. I put her in her cage hoping she'd eat, she thought about it and decided she was done for the night and I watched as something miraculous happened... she stood up. Her whole belly off the ground, up on her front and hind legs and she stood there. Call me a baby ( I cry when kids cry too, makes me a terrible phlebotomist ) but I almost cried. She half walked, half crawled to her sleeping spot then...
She hasn't really eaten much, we opened her mouth three time but couldn't get her to eat a butter worm force feeding, I wasn't going to tear up her skin anymore if she is going to fight it that much. I think the reptaid ( or hoping perhaps ) is helping her get more energy. It is similar to what we have for chins who go off food call Critical Care ( CC ), but is it enough to sustain them if needed? I know a chin can live off CC with proper amounts, so I wasn't sure.
Elizadolots
New Member
I would have totally cried at that!
She cannot live on Reptaid. I'm sure you'll see her going after feeders tomorrow.
I think there are other ways of getting them to open their mouths. Ways that don't involve you prying the mouth open. I remember someone saying "plug their nostrils"....worth a try, right? Obviously, you'll need a teammate for that because holding the chameleon and plugging its nostrils will take both of your hands.
She cannot live on Reptaid. I'm sure you'll see her going after feeders tomorrow.
I think there are other ways of getting them to open their mouths. Ways that don't involve you prying the mouth open. I remember someone saying "plug their nostrils"....worth a try, right? Obviously, you'll need a teammate for that because holding the chameleon and plugging its nostrils will take both of your hands.
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Reptaid is an herbal supplement so it would not be a food substitute since it has no nutritional or caloric content. The CC formulations are packed with nutrients and calories specifically designed to sustain an animal. As long as she's getting a little bit of food steadily and getting calcium somehow you don't need to worry about forcing food yet.
Yesterday we didn't get any in her, today she really, really thought about it, she "practiced" her tongue movements, I should try to get this on video next time, until her tongue was about 3/4 inch out, but didn't go for it.
She is moving around a lot better today and almost walking even! Her hind legs seem SO much stronger. It might be a coincidence or might not, but I think the reptaid has really helped. She seems to like it well enough, and I just mix it with her water and feed it that way.
We might have to try plugging her nose... The skin on her "chin" has peeled back from the damage and is bruised underneath so I hate to continue using that area so I'm open to suggestions on that. If she doesn't eat tonight I'm probably going to puree some crickets or something and try to syringe them to her.
She's much more feisty for her shots now, and she had a normal looking poo today. She's been running about every three days, which is probably pretty good considering her lack of food intake.
She is moving around a lot better today and almost walking even! Her hind legs seem SO much stronger. It might be a coincidence or might not, but I think the reptaid has really helped. She seems to like it well enough, and I just mix it with her water and feed it that way.
We might have to try plugging her nose... The skin on her "chin" has peeled back from the damage and is bruised underneath so I hate to continue using that area so I'm open to suggestions on that. If she doesn't eat tonight I'm probably going to puree some crickets or something and try to syringe them to her.
She's much more feisty for her shots now, and she had a normal looking poo today. She's been running about every three days, which is probably pretty good considering her lack of food intake.
Elizadolots
New Member
It sounds like a "mostly wonderful" report...I'm sorry she didn't eat. I think you might find that the pureed insects can be given with less damage to mouth.
I've been trying to find a thread here for you. It had a lot of people discussing how they force fed their chameleons (that's where the "plug the nostrils" comment came from) but I can't...I remember there were lots of suggestions. Maybe someone else can remember it and help.
I saw in yet another thread that someone admitted to pissing her chameleon off enough to get a hiss, then poked an insect into the hissing mouth....that might be worth a try.
I've been trying to find a thread here for you. It had a lot of people discussing how they force fed their chameleons (that's where the "plug the nostrils" comment came from) but I can't...I remember there were lots of suggestions. Maybe someone else can remember it and help.
I saw in yet another thread that someone admitted to pissing her chameleon off enough to get a hiss, then poked an insect into the hissing mouth....that might be worth a try.
