Veiled female MBD, possible constipation

[ferretinmyshoes]

Do not try mineral oil on her. If she's already struggling against you trying to feed her she could inhale it and mineral oil in the lungs = death. People on here have commented on it happening to them. If she is already passing feces then there is no need for mineral oil. Dupontman - sorry for stomping on that. It can be beneficial in some situations, but I don't think this is the right one. No offense intended.

Something I was pondering...what do chams do when they hurt or are trying to scare something off that might hurt them? They try to be bigger to be intimidating. And what do you do when your back hurts? You lay in weird ways to try to minimize the pain and maybe hold your breath when it's spasming. She has broken legs, and she may be puffing up because she's in pain. By making her belly bigger there is less weight on her legs. She can flatten out when she wants, so you've ruled out eggs, and sounds likes she gets really flat and is passing feces, which makes an obstruction less likely. And I'm not surprised she's not defecating as much since she's not eating as much. I'm starting to think she is just painful and is doing what she can to minimize it. This is a theory of course, I don't have proof, but it seems to make sense given the other things you're able to rule out...

Unfortunately pain control in reptiles is poorly understood and there are very limited options that may or may not be efficacious. She's young and given enough calcium she will heal those bones pretty quickly. The goal is to just keep her comfortable until that time...

 

[BocaJan]

Here's a link on reptaid: http://www.reptaid.com/ It can also be bought from some of the board sponsors, so maybe rolled into an order for worms to save on shipping.

BocaJan, thank you so much for posting. I can only imagine how heartening it is for Riven to read what you wrote.

I like folks to know that with perseverance there is a chance. You won't have a normal looking cham but they are fighters and some can be saved if you are willing to put in lots of work and give them lots of attention.

 

[Riven]

We considered mineral oil previously, after pooping earlier ( once in the past week ) she has not seemed as bloated and yes a lot of it is "show" because when she's comfortable, like when I'm just holding her or she's in her cage she is not as fat anymore, so I've been racking that up to the "fluff" issue as we call it in cats and dogs here.

I do have to force the oral meds sometimes, although I've simply been mixing it with her water and she's been drinking it that way to reduce stress.

I have a lot of experience with preventing aspiration, from helping with c-sections at the vet to hand feedings orphaned chin kits.

 

[Elizadolots]

Riven, this is such great progress. I think this is going to be one of those inspiring threads we can point to in the future to encourage others with sick chameleons.

 

[Riven]

This morning she was very thirsty again, before I offer her the syringe water I drip it into the cup so she knows it's coming and she knows what I'm reaching in for, and this time as soon as I got my hand in there her mouth was open wide.

We tried some worms again, she licked her lips a little but didn't strike, so we'll try again tonight. Showered, and now sunning.

Kind of like working in a long term care facility... offer breakfast, give meds, see if you can get a poop, shower, and sit in the sun room, lol.

Okay, I'm ordering some pheonix worms today ( I put it off until she was showing more promise, don't want to be a pessimistic but I didn't want to have them just sitting around if things went downhill quickly ), is there anything else I should order as well? I'm ordering through Mulberry Farms.

Thanks!

 

[brooklynelizabeth]

This morning she was very thirsty again, before I offer her the syringe water I drip it into the cup so she knows it's coming and she knows what I'm reaching in for, and this time as soon as I got my hand in there her mouth was open wide.

We tried some worms again, she licked her lips a little but didn't strike, so we'll try again tonight. Showered, and now sunning.

Kind of like working in a long term care facility... offer breakfast, give meds, see if you can get a poop, shower, and sit in the sun room, lol.

Okay, I'm ordering some pheonix worms today ( I put it off until she was showing more promise, don't want to be a pessimistic but I didn't want to have them just sitting around if things went downhill quickly ), is there anything else I should order as well? I'm ordering through Mulberry Farms.

Thanks!

I just wanted to add to this Thread- Riven you are going above and beyond, and i really respect you for your efforts

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

I would suggest butterworms. My chams didn't care for phoenix worms much (wouldn't eat them after a few days), and they're gross and smelly. Butterworms don't look like maggots and have an almost pleasant fruity smell and my chams LOVE them. They are super high calcium as well. Just my 2 cents...

 

[Elizadolots]

It probably won't add to the shipping cost to order both. Some chameleons love phoenix worms, some don't. One thing they do have going for them: they are supper wiggly, which can be attractive.

Variety might be helpful in stimulating her interest in eating anyway.

 

[Riven]

How big are the butterworms? I like that you can store them in the fridge... am not sure how many to order either... hmmm...

thanks!

 

[Riven]

Today was a great day!

Pascal pooped on her own without a shower! We did shot this morning, she wasn't thirsty, offers some worms, watched but that's it, so I left her for most of the day as I had homework and housework, girls' volleyball practice, then class and when we got home Hailey was glad to announce there was poop! It was about the same deal as last time so I didn't take another pic, lol.

So I set her up to eat ( I prop the towel up so she looks over the shallow bowl to give her the same pose she would have before this all started ) and she did attempt but fell too short. I am not sure if she is then frustrated or tired but she watched without a second attempt. Since she didn't eat last night I told Hailey we need to feed her... so in goes the first worm... and while she was still licking her chops I grabbed a second and put it by her mouth and she reached over and chomped it down too! We ended up with SIX total! Which doesn't seem like a lot compared to a healthy cham, but this is the most she's had in her since the beginning, and more than that she was ACTIVELY eating! She has a very good bite too because she got my finger involved more than once, lol. Tomorrow we'll try again to get her tongue practice in. I'm sure those bones and muscles are still weak and it will take time... but I'm so proud of her and how well she's doing, she's definitely a fighter. Her hand and tail grips are getting stronger as well. She drank a little tonight, but not too much.

I am finalizing my new worm order now, I hope the butterworms aren't too big for her, it didn't show different sizes so we'll see.

Great day today...

 

[Elizadolots]

Oh, that is great news. Butterworms don't get big (not so with super worms....just a heads up, those things can be HUGE!) so I don't think you'll have a problem.

I don't know what you have in there for a feeding bowl/cup, but if she's having issues shooting, you might want to go with a regular reptile "bowl" that doesn't try to contain the insects.

Worms will stay in, but if you put crickets in, you need to hobble them. It's icky at first, but after a few days it's not so bad. You need to pull at least one back leg off (both is better). You can do that when they are in the plastic bag, so it's not like you have to touch them while you do it.

And, know that they don't seem to care. I've seen "crickets" crawling around that completely lacked a back end, I mean...nothing, I assume they were not long for this world. Apparently, having your back legs, stomach, wings, etc. removed isn't grounds for dying or even lying down in pain in the cricket world.

 

[camimom]

Oh, that is great news. Butterworms don't get big (not so with super worms....just a heads up, those things can be HUGE!) so I don't think you'll have a problem.

I don't know what you have in there for a feeding bowl/cup, but if she's having issues shooting, you might want to go with a regular reptile "bowl" that doesn't try to contain the insects.

Worms will stay in, but if you put crickets in, you need to hobble them. It's icky at first, but after a few days it's not so bad. You need to pull at least one back leg off (both is better). You can do that when they are in the plastic bag, so it's not like you have to touch them while you do it.

And, know that they don't seem to care. I've seen "crickets" crawling around that completely lacked a back end, I mean...nothing, I assume they were not long for this world. Apparently, having your back legs, stomach, wings, etc. removed isn't grounds for dying or even lying down in pain in the cricket world.

Well cockraoches can live without their heads for 7 days. they only die cuz they have no mouth to eat with.

 

[Elizadolots]

Of course, cockroaches will survive a nuclear holocaust....

I realized I misstated how you take off the legs...it's more of a "pinch" than a pull. There is a definite sensation of popping off the leg. I found it icky but it did get better. Make sure to shake the legs out of the plastic bag afterwards or "tomorrow" will start off icky (oh, look....legs!).

 

[Riven]

Yes I've "hobbled" crickets before, lol. I'm not scared. I did learn to pop, not pull or you get some "leakage".

Ordered the worms, yea! We have a cup deal we use, not sure if it's the same as what you're talking about, I'll do some research, it's just tall enough they can't get out it's about 2" across about 1" tall...

 

[brooklynelizabeth]

Yes I've "hobbled" crickets before, lol. I'm not scared. I did learn to pop, not pull or you get some "leakage".

Ordered the worms, yea! We have a cup deal we use, not sure if it's the same as what you're talking about, I'll do some research, it's just tall enough they can't get out it's about 2" across about 1" tall...

Twist off the skinny part of the back leg lol....i do that in Lambeau's free range feeder bucket, that way the little buggers cant jump out ,, muahhahaha

 

[DavidBuchan]

Of course, cockroaches will survive a nuclear holocaust....

Probably healthier to gutload them instead........

 

[Riven]

So far things have been about the same. She did drink yesterday, but didn't eat on her own, she watched but I didn't see her attempt. This morning we force feed her and got 6 in again, yea! But... while I was waiting for Hailey I looked down at Pascal and well her limbs still don't always go right where she wants them to, sometimes she'll clamp onto her own hand and such, but this one was just funny to me so we grabbed the phone and pictured it.

So... do I go for the "bearded" dragon look or not... hmmmmmm.... ( the "beard" is her oral calcium supplement that I got all over her the night before, don't worry I wiped it right away so she didn't aspirate it)

 

[Elizadolots]

lol...she is looking thoughtful isn't she. It's good that she's grabbing at things. As she gets stronger she'll probably grab herself less and less.

 

[Riven]

She was outside in her cage today and was working on climbing up the side... so it looks like maybe I'll need to put something around there so she can't, right now I'm afraid she'll fall and get hurt. But she is getting better at moving where she wants to, sometimes she'll get "stuck" some place and I have to save her, but she's getting better.

 

[Dupontman2]

Do not try mineral oil on her. If she's already struggling against you trying to feed her she could inhale it and mineral oil in the lungs = death. People on here have commented on it happening to them. If she is already passing feces then there is no need for mineral oil. Dupontman - sorry for stomping on that. It can be beneficial in some situations, but I don't think this is the right one. No offense intended.

ferretinmyshoes

Absolutely no offense taken. You are absolutely right, bows gracefully!!