Veiled has lumps ALL OVER his spine, swollen elbow

[bombadillo2]

Please see THIS POST for my FULL CHAMELEON AND HUSBANDRY INFO (doesn't fit in one posting)

I posted several weeks ago because my chameleon was laying on the bottom of his cage. I believe he was constipated and tried feeding him some pears (I read giving them oil is actually dangerous?), gave him a few good extra long hydrating sessions in the shower, and got him to a vet who supposedly was a reptile specialist. The bill was over $200, and she said there was nothing wrong with him other than the constipation. No parasites, no lesions on the mouth, but she got him to poop a bit. She didn't say anything about the lumps on his spine but they weren't as bad as they are now. And I thought him pooping would make them go away. He also pooped a bunch about a day later and again normally over that week. I have continued keeping him hydrated and not fed him any more of the crickets or worms that seemed to make him sick before.

Based on some advice on the forum, I have since replaced his UVB bulb (Acadia--see full chameleon info), gave him some extra calcium every few days the first week (drops), and also have given him a few drops of ReptAid every few days. The lumps have not gone away, in fact look worse. He seems to have stopped pooping as regularly as he should again. Is this definitely impaction?

2 Notes, which may be unrelated: his elbow is quite swollen looking, and he favors his other arm. He fell while climbing, before the issues that had me bring him to the vet (and I didn't notice any problems until just before the vet visit). I think it might be broken He is still favoring the other arm. Note 2: In the past 2 days he has hung out on branches near the bottom of the cage and not headed up to bask. Unless I handle him and then put him back in his basking spot, then he'll stay there. The reason I'm concerned is that he was doing this when he was constipated (except then, he was actually all the way on the bottom, not on branches, which seemed more concerning).

I don't feel like the vet did much for $200, and I don't know if she'll help if I bring him back! I've tried getting in touch with other reptile specialists but haven't heard back.

Do any of you know what this is and what I can do for my guy?

Please see THIS POST for my FULL CHAMELEON AND HUSBANDRY INFO (doesn't fit in one posting)

 

[kinyonga]

Please post a couple more photos of the elbow.

 

[bombadillo2]

Please post a couple more photos of the elbow.

I took these a week or more ago. It doesn't seem to look as bad right now (original photos were from today), but maybe it's just the angle...

 

[kinyonga]

First of all...I'm not a vet I can only give an opinion.

You said he fell...could be he has damaged his elbow in the fall.
Was it like that when he went to the vets?

The bumps in the tail have nothing to do with him not pooping. They could be from an infection but thinking that since they are fairly evenly spaced it could be calcium or maybe even damage from an injury. I'm surprised the vet didn't comment on them.
Is the anything in the cage that he could have ingested like substrate or plant soil or bark or moss...anything besides insects?

I sincerely hope you have quit spraying water in his mouth.

 

[PoseidonTheChameleon]

Definitely a vet visit. We are not vets and cannot give the full diagnosis.

 

[bombadillo2]

First of all...I'm not a vet I can only give an opinion.

You said he fell...could be he has damaged his elbow in the fall.
Was it like that when he went to the vets?

The bumps in the tail have nothing to do with him not pooping. They could be from an infection but thinking that since they are fairly evenly spaced it could be calcium or maybe even damage from an injury. I'm surprised the vet didn't comment on them.
Is the anything in the cage that he could have ingested like substrate or plant soil or bark or moss...anything besides insects?

I sincerely hope you have quit spraying water in his mouth.

Yes, of course I stopped as soon as I found out it was dangerous; I said I would.

Yes, the elbow was like that when I took him to the vet, and she said nothing, she said he was healthy all around, which is why I don't want to bring him back there.

When you say it could be calcium, do you mean too much calcium and it's depositing there? Yeah, it does seem like it's pretty even along the tail and upper spine, although there is that one giant lump where the tail starts (almost rectangle-shaped).

The set up is fully bioactive so there is an earth worm compost, but it's mostly covered with vines (the pothos, which is on a stand, has long vines which have set roots in the soil). He very rarely has contact with the soil itself, rather climbs on the vines or sticks. I feed him by putting bugs on the ceiling, which he like to shoot at from his basking spot or other high-up spots (i.e. I've never seen him hunt on the ground, and my desk is next to his terrarium so I'm there most of the day). No bark, and the drainage layer is several inches below the surface. There are some ferns and little trees, and they're all from a chameleon-approved list.

Someone said they'd had problems with bumps but they went away after replacing the UVB bulb (I was a couple months overdue, as I didn't realize they needed to be replaced before "burning out"). So I'm hoping that will help over time, but I agree with you that it seems like some type of infection, or something more than just UVB.

 

[bombadillo2]

Definitely a vet visit. We are not vets and cannot give the full diagnosis.

The vet saw him a few weeks ago and essentially said he was perfectly healthy. She did help him poop, since I told her I was worried he was constipated, but she wouldn't have even done that if I hadn't had brought it up. Not keen on another $200 bill for nothing, when he clearly has something going on.

 

[bombadillo2]

Right before I took him to the vet, he ate crickets and a few waxworms. I usually don't feed him either, but my roaches were back-ordered so I had to get what they had at the pet store. I'm fairly certain it was related.

 

[nightanole]

The lumps dont line up with any joints. And it doesnt look like edema. The only thing off is you are running a 12%, but depending on your supplement sched that could be fine. Plus if UVB combined with too much D3, causes edema of the body, not limbs/tail.

I am guessing this is gout/kidneys.

 

[Beman]

So I just read through your other post... You did not include what your doing for supplements. Also your using a 12% bulb which is stronger. this should have a distance of 12 inches to basking branch for the correct UVI level so that he is not being over exposed to UVB. What is your distance?

 

[bombadillo2]

So I just read through your other post... You did not include what your doing for supplements. Also your using a 12% bulb which is stronger. this should have a distance of 12 inches to basking branch for the correct UVI level so that he is not being over exposed to UVB. What is your distance?

Supplements are in the chameleon info. The 12% was something recommended on this forum (found in another thread when I was first setting up the setup). Oh no, I didn't realize this was too high. Although for the past 3 months it has most likely been a weaker bulb, as i didn't realize how often they need to be replaced. It's a new bulb now. So, what percentage should I get then? His basking spot is more like 6-7 inches from the UVB.

 

[bombadillo2]

View attachment 281634

The lumps dont line up with any joints. And it doesnt look like edema. The only thing off is you are running a 12%, but depending on your supplement sched that could be fine. Plus if UVB combined with too much D3, causes edema of the body, not limbs/tail.

I am guessing this is gout/kidneys.

Thank you! So the lumps would be aligned with joints if it was impaction, right?

What can I do for gout? Can the vet prescribe something?

 

[nightanole]

Thank you! So the lumps would be aligned with joints if it was impaction, right?

What can I do for gout? Can the vet prescribe something?

No lumps can be caused by impaction period.

The lumps are not in the joints, so that kinda rules out an infection.

Gout is caused by a few things. But generally its a calcium phosphorus imbalance, feeders with high uric acid, or kidney issues. But i have no clue what the underlying condition is. Ive seen reptiles get it from something as simple as feeding dubia that were raised on fish flakes that was super high in protein, and the bugs stored all the protein as uric acid.

What is your food, what is your food eating, and what is your supplements/schedule?

 

[Beman]

Supplements are in the chameleon info. The 12% was something recommended on this forum (found in another thread when I was first setting up the setup). Oh no, I didn't realize this was too high. Although for the past 3 months it has most likely been a weaker bulb, as i didn't realize how often they need to be replaced. It's a new bulb now. So, what percentage should I get then? His basking spot is more like 6-7 inches from the UVB.

Yeah if you read an older post but bulb strength goes hand in hand with fixture type and how many bulbs. A 12% has a stronger output. You can use it but it needs to be about 12 inches away from the basking site. A 5.0 or 6% would need to be 9 inches away. Both of these at this distance would give you a 3 uvi approximately. If your running a single bulb fixture this would be the info for you. You can raise the fixture if needed to get the right distances. At 6 inches with a 12% you would be getting higher then a 6 uvi level... This is much higher then recommended exposure for them.

For the supplements are they these below? if so those would be ok although some say that herptavite is not as effective because it does not have preformed A.

• Calcium daily
• Every other week, calc + Vit D
• Alternating week, Herptavite
• RepCal brand

 

[nightanole]

Whats a multi vitamin that has preformed A?

I thought the point of just beta carotene was the body would only convert it to A as needed, so you could not over supplement.

 

[Beman]

Whats a multi vitamin that has preformed A?

I thought the point of just beta carotene was the body would only convert it to A as needed, so you could not over supplement.

Are you talking to me?

 

[nightanole]

Are you talking to me?

Yup. Does arcadia have preformed, like retinol or something?

 

[Beman]

Yup. Does arcadia have preformed, like retinol or something?

Yes there are those that have preformed A rather then just beta carotene. Arcadia RevitaliseD3 (lowest levels of D3 and Vitamin A), Repashy makes like 5 different ones that have preformed A as well. Reptivite with D3 and Without D3 have preformed A. And fluckers repta vitamin has preformed A.

 

[nightanole]

Yes there are those that have preformed A rather then just beta carotene. Arcadia RevitaliseD3 (lowest levels of D3 and Vitamin A), Repashy makes like 5 different ones that have preformed A as well. Reptivite with D3 and Without D3 have preformed A. And fluckers repta vitamin has preformed A.

Hmmm they use Retinyl acetate,a natural form of vitamin A which is the acetate ester of retinol. So i was close

Odd that Repashy calcium plus is still beta carotene...

".Calcium plus also contains Beta Carotene in addition to preformed Vitamin A"

Welp tonights homework is to find the vitamin A source, as i dont recognize it in the ingredient list

 

[Beman]

Hmmm they use Retinyl acetate,a natural form of vitamin A which is the acetate ester of retinol. So i was close

Yeah I dunno you just said a lot of words I don't know lol.