veiled swollen jaw looks dislocated

[kenluvschameleons]

My male veiled is about 6-8 mths. He has optimum habitat conditions ( regulated by hygrotherm) in a 6 ft tall terrarium. A bout 9 days ago I noticed his lower jaw looked swollen and flared out as if broken or dislocated. And no discoloration or sores visable. I began looking for a vet, but I live in bfe and can not find a vet within a hundred miles that is capable to care for reptiles. I need any help I can get, please help.
I will post pics asap.

 

[kenluvschameleons]

humidity 75-85%. temp 75-83. sub, coconut and spag. lighting 75w fluker, cool mist fog humidifier.

 

[ridgebax1]

Ken welcome to the forums. Sometimes problems closing their jaws can be related to metabolic bone disease. I can tell you from the info you have provided that you need to remove the substrate. Veileds are notorious for eating things they shouldn't. I strongly recommend you follow this link and complete the form in as much detail as you can so you can get the best possible advice. https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-ask-help-66/ If you can take a few more pictures from different angles that will help too.

 

[kenluvschameleons]

I will. and thank you for replying to my post.

 

[fluxlizard]

This is almost surely a calcium deficiency. The whole skull is effected. I've never seen such an extreme effect on the cranial fin...

 

[Dez]

Ver

The arm in the first photo shows an abnormal bend that would be consistent with MBD

I am certain the jaw problem is also a result also the small crest.

Mbd deformed bones can not be reversed , but can be stopped from getting any worse with calcium supplements and proper uvb exposure

 

[windex]

Is the enclosure glass? of so I don't see any ventilation and UV light does not travel through glass.. If the lights are outside he will not be getting the UV light that he needs.. giving him calcium is a start but without proper UV lights he cannot process the calcium.

 

[PoshPenny]

Man, you could easily pop out those glass panes and buy a roll of aluminum mesh and a staple gun and make a kick butt enclosure with that wood frame you got there. Cost would be like $80 tops if you had the tools or borrowed them, then he could have the ventilation chams require and you could solve your light problems. Sounds like an awesome DIY project if ya ask me

 

[carol5208]

You are using a 75 watt Flukers... is that a UVB bulb? Sounds like a basking bulb to me which means you have only been providing uva rays. Chameleons need both UVA and UVB. Lack of UVB lighting and calcium can cause Metabolic Bone Disease.

 

[windex]

looks far from optimum. you need to change things immediately

 

[Kenny C]

humidity 75-85%. temp 75-83. sub, coconut and spag. lighting 75w fluker, cool mist fog humidifier.

What are you using for UVB?

 

[sandrachameleon]

Your chameleon appears to be in bad shape.
it sounds like your husbandry may not be ideal
please provide answers to all of the questions in the how to ask for help sticky, in detail.
I think you will need a vet, so keep looking - tell us your location and perhaps we can help you locate one

 

[kenluvschameleons]

thanks for the replies. the terrarium is ventilated, the rear panel is half screen. the light is internal. After doing some research on mbd, and husbandry, I think the problem is a lack of phosphorus (not calcium). I use Zoo Med repti calcium, which has no phosphorus. also I realized I was dusting and gut loading to frequent. As to his lighting It is a basking lamp and im going to take a nice long drive tomorrow to get him another bulb. please keep the advice coming though, it is appreciated.

 

[Carlton]

thanks for the replies. the terrarium is ventilated, the rear panel is half screen. the light is internal. After doing some research on mbd, and husbandry, I think the problem is a lack of phosphorus (not calcium). I use Zoo Med repti calcium, which has no phosphorus. also I realized I was dusting and gut loading to frequent. As to his lighting It is a basking lamp and im going to take a nice long drive tomorrow to get him another bulb. please keep the advice coming though, it is appreciated.

But, many of our insect feeders are naturally high in phosphorus which is why we have to balance it out by adding calcium supplements. When you say "basking lamp" what specific type do you mean? They require two types of lighting....the basking lamp which just provides heat, and a UV-producing light which provides exposure to UVB for vitamin D3 and calcium metabolism. Dusting with the wrong substance too often can result in symptoms similar to MBD. Gutloading isn't something you do periodically, but rather constantly as you are feeding it to your insects.

 

[kenluvschameleons]

Veiled, male, 6-8 mths, 3 mths in my care
Handling- about 3x a week
Feeding- crickets, roaches, sometimes kale or romaine sometimes cup but
usually free. gutload with kale, romaine, carrot, apple, mango, potato
dusted with reptical w/d3
Supplement- Zoo-Med repti calcium w/d3
Watering- Misting heavy 2x daily and drip from humidifier (fog) to cup, to floor.
but have changed do to fear of bacteria from humidifier.
I see him drink occasionally but have been hand watering lately.
Fecal- brown/green pellet sometimes with a little bit of white
Cage- 6ft tall 18" wide glass with one panel half screen ( 1/4 at top and 1/4
at bottom) did have moss and coconut fiber but have taken that out
Lighting- fluker's 75 watt UVB on hygrotherm
Temp- day, 75 at bottom,83 at top branch. night, 73. measured with Zoo-Med
Hygrotherm and regular therm.
Plants- fake
Placement- high traffic area, 1 ceiling fan in an open floor plan room.
top of cage is 7.5 feet from floor
Location- south central Oklahoma

 

[windex]

I don't think your bulb is a UVB bulb.. just because its marked "daylight" doesn't mean its a UVB bulb.. Unless its a CFL or linear tube (non of which will be 75w) then its not likely to provide the UVB needed to process the calcium

http://www.zoomed.com/db/products/E...zOjE6IjIiO3M6ODoiS2V5d29yZHMiO3M6MzoidXZiIjt9

 

[PoshPenny]

I spazzed out on uvb bulbs as a newbie and wound up buying a whole slew of UVB bulbs, including a megaray before I finally drank the kool aid and got a 10.0 18'' repti-zoom, the tried and true of this forum, and swear my cham has NEVER looked better, after a week she looked amazing.

But my point is flukers does not make a 75 uvb watt bulb that I know of, or found when I was getting my husbandry up to speed after finding this forum, they make a Sun Glow Coil Bulb 20 watt which gives off (> 250 watts/cm) Here is the EXACT bulb I am referencing
http://www.amazon.com/Flukers-Glow-Coil-Bulb-Watt/dp/B00164M4VC

Unless you have a mercury vapor bulb by zoomed or megaray or other brand. All the calcium with d3 in the world doesnt mean jack if they dont have the means to absorb it.

Also Kale is high in oxalates and goitrogens, so it should only be fed on occassion. If this was a staple in your gutload, you might want to rethink that. Spinach is another. What we feed our feeders we feed our chams.

Here is a chart that I bookmarked that I saw ferretinmyshoes post on another thread. I pretty much follow this chart and gutload with the greens it says you can use on more than an occasion. http://www.greenigsociety.org/foodchart.htm

Mustard greens would be a better staple for a gutloader, they are cheap, and they last a while. I use them, my veiled loves them.
However, mango is staple, so thats great!

Either way, best wishes.

 

[carol5208]

No Flukers does not make a 75 watt UVB bulb. They make a 75 watt basking bulb. Not providing your chameleon uvb is what has caused him to be in the condition he is with MBD. You are providing a heat lamp which is UVA not UVB. Get your chameleon to a vet asap and get some calcium injections. You are not going to be able to cure his condition. The damage is done, but you can prevent it from getting worse. Get the UVB light immediately. Keep the basking light also.

 

[PressurePro]

You don't have to swap out the glass. But you definitely need uvb lighting. I'd recommend a t5ho forest uvb lamp because your enclosure is so tall. LightYourReptiles has these and you will not be disappointed with the Arcadia bulbs.

 

[camimom]

Veiled, male, 6-8 mths, 3 mths in my care
Handling- about 3x a week
Feeding- crickets, roaches, sometimes kale or romaine sometimes cup but
usually free. gutload with kale, romaine, carrot, apple, mango, potato
dusted with reptical w/d3
Supplement- Zoo-Med repti calcium w/d3
Watering- Misting heavy 2x daily and drip from humidifier (fog) to cup, to floor.
but have changed do to fear of bacteria from humidifier.
I see him drink occasionally but have been hand watering lately.
Fecal- brown/green pellet sometimes with a little bit of white
Cage- 6ft tall 18" wide glass with one panel half screen ( 1/4 at top and 1/4
at bottom) did have moss and coconut fiber but have taken that out
Lighting- fluker's 75 watt UVB on hygrotherm
Temp- day, 75 at bottom,83 at top branch. night, 73. measured with Zoo-Med
Hygrotherm and regular therm.
Plants- fake
Placement- high traffic area, 1 ceiling fan in an open floor plan room.
top of cage is 7.5 feet from floor
Location- south central Oklahoma

Here is why your chameleon has MBD. Besides the obvious of the jaw and arm.

Your supplementing is wrong- you need to provide a calcium with no d3 every feeding, a multivitamin twice a month, and the caclium with d3 twice a month. So you have been under supplementing him.

While this is not related to the MBD, you arent misting enough. I would mist at least 4-5 times per day.

Lighting is wrong as well- Flukers makes basking bulbs only, as carol has said, so you have not been providing ANY UVB, which chameleons need. and UVB does not pass through glass, so even if your cham is by a window, it doesnt matter.

You shouldnt be dusting your gutload with your supplements like that. IF you wish to provide something that like you need bug burger or superpig for that kind of thing, also cricket crack is great.

You need to take your cham to a vet, get the calcium levels corrected, and then make the needed changes to your care.

the damage is done, but you can halt the progression of the disease, and possible help regain some of the closure of the jaw, if you follow the directions posted here on this forum.