Viatimin A Deficiencies in Cameleons

[JaxyGirl]

Hi everybody!

I know this is a controversial subject but I have found it very interesting and wanted to share

I've been doing a lot of research on Vitamin A deficiencies in chameleons. From my research I have found that Vitamin A deficiencies are one of the major causes of MBD, Upper Respiratory infections, Mouth Rot (stomatitis), Temporal Gland Infection, Eye problems and more.

Here's why your chameleon might have a vitamin A deficiency and you might not know it. And answers to why your chameleon got sick even though you did everything right.

There are Two types of Vitaman A. The first is Beta Carotine which comes from plants such as vegitables and fruits. The second is Preformed Vitamin A which comes from animals such as meat, fish, and dairy.
Humans and most other animals have an enzyme in their bodies that can convert Beta Carotine to a usable form of Vitamin A that is stored in our livers for normal body function. Even as humans If you have a lack of Vitamin A (hypovitamiosis A) you get major health issues.

Here's some interesting facts and theories I have learned from my research:

1) Unlike humans and most other animals, Chameleons "do not" have the enzymes to convert Beta Carotine (vegitable matter) to a usable form of Vitamin A that can be stored in the liver which supports normal body function.

2) The mostly vegetarian diet (Beta Carotine) such as vegitables, fruits, carrots, kale, potatoes etc. that we gut load our feeders with (including brand name gut loads that we buy) "Can Not" be converted to vitamin A by our chameleons because they lack the enzyme to do so.
http://exoticpets.about.com/od/reptilehealth/p/vitadefrept.htm

http://www.animalplanet.com/pets/other-pets/reptile-guide-chameleons-vitamin-a/

Then we feed our chameleons a gut loaded cricket fed on plant matter and fortified with Beta Carotine. This causes vitamin A deficiency because the chameleon can not utilize the Vitamin A found in plant matter in the form of Beta Carotine.

https://books.google.com/books?id=7...&q=vitamin A deficiency in chameleons&f=false

3) Because, chameleons can not utilize Beta Caritine, Chameleons need "Preformed Vitamin A" which is stored in their liver and used for various body functions in the body. Preformed Vitamin A comes from Animals such as meat, fish, eggs, lizards, birds, small animals, snails and slugs etc.
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=17+1796&aid=3027

4) The reason that vitamin A deficiencies seem to occur 6 months to a year of age in chameleons is because Vitamin A is Fat soluable and can be stored in the liver for 6 months or more. Baby lizards have stored Vitamin A in their Liver due to the yolk that sustained them in the egg. But, after 6 mos it becomes totally depleted if the Vitamin A is not replenished through a healthy diet containing Preformed Vitamin A. This leads to vitamin A deficiency in adulthood.

5) It is virtually impossible to cause Vitamin A Toxicity by offering chameleons a natural diet of real food that contains Preformed vitamin A that comes from animals. (Not supplements)

I think as chameleon owners we underestimate how much animal meat (Preformed Vitamin A) that chameleons actually eat in the wild. I belive that misconceptions that chameleons can not digest these types of foods are leading to severe Vitamin deficiencies in our chameleons and by doing so not giving them the quality long lived life that they deserve.

I offered these meats to my Jacksons chameleon at least once or twice a week in (small) amounts along with his gut loaded feeders. Raw shrimp, raw chicken, raw Salmon, tuna and raw steak. He never had any health issues He lived a happy healthy life and was a couple months short of 8 years old when he died of old age.

 

[Carlton]

Hi everybody!

I know this is a controversial subject but I have found it very interesting and wanted to share

I've been doing a lot of research on Vitamin A deficiencies in chameleons. From my research I have found that Vitamin A deficiencies are one of the major causes of MBD, Upper Respiratory infections, Mouth Rot (stomatitis), Temporal Gland Infection, Eye problems and more.

Here's why your chameleon might have a vitamin A deficiency and you might not know it. And answers to why your chameleon got sick even though you did everything right.

There are Two types of Vitaman A. The first is Beta Carotine which comes from plants such as vegitables and fruits. The second is Preformed Vitamin A which comes from animals such as meat, fish, and dairy.
Humans and most other animals have an enzyme in their bodies that can convert Beta Carotine to a usable form of Vitamin A that is stored in our livers for normal body function. Even as humans If you have a lack of Vitamin A (hypovitamiosis A) you get major health issues.

Here's some interesting facts and theories I have learned from my research:

1) Unlike humans and most other animals, Chameleons "do not" have the enzymes to convert Beta Carotine (vegitable matter) to a usable form of Vitamin A that can be stored in the liver which supports normal body function.

2) The mostly vegetarian diet (Beta Carotine) such as vegitables, fruits, carrots, kale, potatoes etc. that we gut load our feeders with (including brand name gut loads that we buy) "Can Not" be converted to vitamin A by our chameleons because they lack the enzyme to do so.
http://exoticpets.about.com/od/reptilehealth/p/vitadefrept.htm

Then we feed our chameleons a gut loaded cricket fed on plant matter and fortified with Beta Carotine. This causes vitamin A deficiency because the chameleon can not utilize the Vitamin A found in plant matter in the form of Beta Carotine.

https://books.google.com/books?id=7...&q=vitamin A deficiency in chameleons&f=false

3) Because, chameleons can not utilize Beta Caritine, Chameleons need "Preformed Vitamin A" which is stored in their liver and used for various body functions in the body. Preformed Vitamin A comes from Animals such as meat, fish, eggs, lizards, birds, small animals, snails and slugs etc.
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=17+1796&aid=3027

4) The reason that vitamin A deficiencies seem to occur 6 months to a year of age in chameleons is because Vitamin A is Fat soluable and can be stored in the liver for 6 months or more. Baby lizards have stored Vitamin A in their Liver due to the yolk that sustained them in the egg. But, after 6 mos it becomes totally depleted if the Vitamin A is not replenished through a healthy diet containing Preformed Vitamin A. This leads to vitamin A deficiency in adulthood.

5) It is virtually impossible to cause Vitamin A Toxicity by offering chameleons a natural diet of real food that contains Preformed vitamin A that comes from animals. (Not supplements)

I think as chameleon owners we underestimate how much animal meat (Preformed Vitamin A) that chameleons actually eat in the wild. I belive that misconceptions that chameleons can not digest these types of foods are leading to severe Vitamin deficiencies in our chameleons and by doing so not giving them the quality long lived life that they deserve.

I offered these meats to my Jacksons chameleon at least once or twice a week in (small) amounts along with his gut loaded feeders. Raw shrimp, raw chicken, raw Salmon, tuna and raw steak. He never had any health issues He lived a happy healthy life and was a couple months short of 8 years old when he died of old age.

Jaxygirl, I responded to the other thread, but I keep thinking about this, and started wondering how our insect gutloads have developed over the years and whether we may have unintentionally removed sources of pre-formed vit A from them in our attempts to improve other nutritional aspects. Years ago keepers fed their insects a wide variety of foods including dog, cat, and fish food. Guess what...those would contain some forms of animal proteins...and probably vit A. I wonder if temporal gland infections were as common in the past. I know we'll probably never be able to tease that out as there were fewer chams in captivity, the cham keeping community wasn't able to share as we do now, and most chams were wildcaught (with a natural store of vit A on board for a while), and they didn't live very long due to many other husbandry problems. Thinking back to my earliest days of cham keeping when there were very few sophisticated gutloads available and what I fed my insects...I included fish flakes and dog kibble in my gutloads. I also kept jax and veileds and didn't have temporal gland or eye infections (well, a very small sample size to say anything about!).

This is really really interesting and could give us the answer for all the eye infections and temporal gland infections that plague our chams these days.

 

[kinyonga]

I replied in your other thread so I'm transferring it here...

JaxyGirl said "Along with my research that I've been doing on vitamin A I have found some interesting things" could you please post your sources of the following information. I'd like to read the articles/studies this info came from. I'm adding some comments/questions...in capitals..

1) Chameleons do not have the enzymes to convert Beta Carotine to a usable form of Vitamin A that can be stored in the liver.
DOES THIS APPLY TO VEILEDS TOO?

2) The mostly vegetarian diet (beta carotine) that we gut load our feeders with can not be converted to vitamin A when the chameleons eat them. BUT DON'T THE INSECTS CONVERT IT?

3) Chameleons need Preformed Vitamin A which is stored in the liver for use in the body

4) Feeding mostly vegetarian gut load to our feeders results in a vitamin A deficiency in chameleons. I TOOK/TAKE ALL MY CHAMELEON BODIES FOR NECROPCY AND ONLY ONE WAS VITAMIN A DEFICIENT AND IT HAD BEEN GETTING PREFORMED VITAMIN A (IT WAS BEFORE I STOPPED USING IT.)

5) Preformed Vitamin A comes from Animals such as meat, fish, eggs, lizards, birds, small animals, snails and slugs etc.

6) The reason that vitamin A deficiencies seem to occur 6 months to a year of age in chameleons is because Vitamin A is Fat soluable and can be stored in the liver for 6 months or more. Baby lizards have stored Vitamin A in their Liver due to the yolk that sustained them in the egg. But, after 6 mos it becomes totally depleted if the Vitamin A is not replenished through a healthy diet containing Preformed Vitamin A. This leads to vitamin A deficiency in adulthood. I HAVEN'T FED ANY INSECTS ANYTHING THAT CONTAINS PREFORMED VITAMIN A AND DON'T HAVE ANY ISSUES WITH EYES OR TEMPORAL GLANDS, ETC. WONDER WHY NOT?

7) It is virtually impossible to cause Vitamin A Toxicity by offering chameleons a natural diet of real food that contains Preformed vitamin A that comes from animals. (Not supplements) I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW MORE ABOUT THIS.

I think as chameleon owners we underestimate how much animal meat (Preformed Vitamin A) that chameleons actually eat in the wild. I belive that misconceptions that chameleons can not digest these types of foods are leading to severe Vitamin deficiencies in our chameleons and by doing so not giving them the quality long lived life that they deserve.

I offered these meats to my Jacksons chameleon at least once or twice a week in (small) amounts along with his gut loaded feeders. Raw shrimp, raw chicken, raw Salmon, tuna and raw steak. He never had any health issues He lived a happy healthy life and was a couple months short of 8 when he died.

 

[JaxyGirl]

Jaxygirl, I responded to the other thread, but I keep thinking about this, and started wondering how our insect gutloads have developed over the years and whether we may have unintentionally removed sources of pre-formed vit A from them in our attempts to improve other nutritional aspects. Years ago keepers fed their insects a wide variety of foods including dog, cat, and fish food. Guess what...those would contain some forms of animal proteins...and probably vit A. I wonder if temporal gland infections were as common in the past. I know we'll probably never be able to tease that out as there were fewer chams in captivity, the cham keeping community wasn't able to share as we do now, and most chams were wildcaught (with a natural store of vit A on board for a while), and they didn't live very long due to many other husbandry problems. Thinking back to my earliest days of cham keeping when there were very few sophisticated gutloads available and what I fed my insects...I included fish flakes and dog kibble in my gutloads. I also kept jax and veileds and didn't have temporal gland or eye infections (well, a very small sample size to say anything about!).

This is really really interesting and could give us the answer for all the eye infections and temporal gland infections that plague our chams these days.

Hi Carlton I'm really happy that you found this as interesting as I did! I keep seeing all these diseases on here and so many of them seem to be similar so I was curious if they all had something in common? I still feed my crickets cat food along with their gut load and veggies.

 

[JaxyGirl]

I replied in your other thread so I'm transferring it here...

JaxyGirl said "Along with my research that I've been doing on vitamin A I have found some interesting things" could you please post your sources of the following information. I'd like to read the articles/studies this info came from. I'm adding some comments/questions...in capitals..

1) Chameleons do not have the enzymes to convert Beta Carotine to a usable form of Vitamin A that can be stored in the liver.
DOES THIS APPLY TO VEILEDS TOO?

2) The mostly vegetarian diet (beta carotine) that we gut load our feeders with can not be converted to vitamin A when the chameleons eat them. BUT DON'T THE INSECTS CONVERT IT?

3) Chameleons need Preformed Vitamin A which is stored in the liver for use in the body

4) Feeding mostly vegetarian gut load to our feeders results in a vitamin A deficiency in chameleons. I TOOK/TAKE ALL MY CHAMELEON BODIES FOR NECROPCY AND ONLY ONE WAS VITAMIN A DEFICIENT AND IT HAD BEEN GETTING PREFORMED VITAMIN A (IT WAS BEFORE I STOPPED USING IT.)

5) Preformed Vitamin A comes from Animals such as meat, fish, eggs, lizards, birds, small animals, snails and slugs etc.

6) The reason that vitamin A deficiencies seem to occur 6 months to a year of age in chameleons is because Vitamin A is Fat soluable and can be stored in the liver for 6 months or more. Baby lizards have stored Vitamin A in their Liver due to the yolk that sustained them in the egg. But, after 6 mos it becomes totally depleted if the Vitamin A is not replenished through a healthy diet containing Preformed Vitamin A. This leads to vitamin A deficiency in adulthood. I HAVEN'T FED ANY INSECTS ANYTHING THAT CONTAINS PREFORMED VITAMIN A AND DON'T HAVE ANY ISSUES WITH EYES OR TEMPORAL GLANDS, ETC. WONDER WHY NOT?

7) It is virtually impossible to cause Vitamin A Toxicity by offering chameleons a natural diet of real food that contains Preformed vitamin A that comes from animals. (Not supplements) I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW MORE ABOUT THIS.

I think as chameleon owners we underestimate how much animal meat (Preformed Vitamin A) that chameleons actually eat in the wild. I belive that misconceptions that chameleons can not digest these types of foods are leading to severe Vitamin deficiencies in our chameleons and by doing so not giving them the quality long lived life that they deserve.

I offered these meats to my Jacksons chameleon at least once or twice a week in (small) amounts along with his gut loaded feeders. Raw shrimp, raw chicken, raw Salmon, tuna and raw steak. He never had any health issues He lived a happy healthy life and was a couple months short of 8 when he died.

Hi Kinyonga I responded to you on the other thread

 

[JaxyGirl]

Here are some other interesting article about Vitamin A deficiency.

http://www.netvet.co.uk/lizards/vitamin-a-deficiency.htm

http://www.animalplanet.com/pets/other-pets/reptile-guide-chameleons-vitamin-a/


And an interesting excerpt from
Reptile Medicine and Surgery
edited by Stephen J. Divers, Douglas R. Mader
https://books.google.com/books?id=7...&q=vitamin A deficiency in chameleons&f=false

 

[Lovereps]

You may find this article with Dr Ferguson, a respected chameleon expert's comments regarding the need for preformed vitamin A and his personal experiences with chams developing vitamin A deficiencies interesting:
http://chamworld.blogspot.com/2008/03/chat-with-dr-gary-w-ferguson.html

 

[kinyonga]

I gutload/feed my insects with only greens and veggies...no prEformed sources of vitamin A. If do not feed my chameleons with any "meat" or meat "by-products" such as eggs, cheese, etc so there is no prEformed vitamin A from that either.

I would think it might be possible for veileds to convert prOformed sources since they eat greens and veggies...even if other species don't/cant.

This comes from a vet well known in chameleon circles and ADCHAM...
http://www.uvma.org/chameleon/vitaminA.htm

Lots of info on nutrient content...
http://www.organicvaluerecovery.com/studies/studies_nutrient_content_of_insects.htm

 

[JaxyGirl]

You may find this article with Dr Ferguson, a respected chameleon expert's comments regarding the need for preformed vitamin A and his personal experiences with chams developing vitamin A deficiencies interesting:
http://chamworld.blogspot.com/2008/03/chat-with-dr-gary-w-ferguson.html

That's an awesome article! I like that Dr Ferguson has done actual documented research on chameleon care and husbandry. I think I might have to buy one of his books! Here's some earlier research that he did on the subject. It's a little technical but it pretty much says the same thing we've been talking about
http://www.researchgate.net/publict...45a3&key=d651e24a-6d7f-41e8-804e-339d9c188b53

 

[JoeVet]

Unfortunately there are few actual studies of vitamin A in reptiles. We have no idea if they can convert carotenes into vitamin A. There is one study which showed that deficient iguanas did not absorb beta-carotene but it did absorb another carotene that was not a vitamin A precursor. We know that many insects do not convert beta-carotene into retinoid and the retinoids they do contain are limited to very small amounts in their eyes. The only real publication addressing vitamin A in chameleons was published by Ferguson in 1996. He didn't use any negative controls and none of his animals lived past a year. It really isn't a good paper but it is widely cited.

What makes this all more difficult is there is no good diagnostic test for vitamin A. It can be tested in liver samples but blood samples are not reliable. The only way to diagnose it then is by response to treatment. Vitamin A is not diagnosed at necropsy unless liver samples are sent to very specialized labs and specifically asked for. Vitamin A deficiency is not routinely diagnosed at necropsy.

Among the leading reptile veterinarians or at least those who talk at conventions, there is a belief that chameleons do not convert carotenes into vitamin A. This belief is because vitamin A deficiency seems to be common.

The belief among keepers that hypervitaminosis A is a danger is due to non-peer reviewed articles in lay publications like CIN. After publication of these articles, manufacturers of reptile vitamins took vitamin A out of their products and substituted beta-carotene. This led to the situation we have today were many animals are getting vitamin A responsive illness. There are no cases of reported hypervitaminosis in chameleons. Really the reports of hypervitaminosis in any reptile are due to veterinarians injecting too much into turtles. I'm not familiar with any reports of over supplementing.

So the bottom line is we don't know but highly suspect they need preformed vitamin A. The next problem is how much? Is the amount in a good commercial feeder gut load like bug burger enough or do we need to use a powder supplement? Remember the other fat soluble vitamins will interfere with absorption so vitamins D and E will have an affect on how much A is needed. These question will never be answered. Reptiles are too much of a niche pet and chameleons even more so. All we can do is find a solution that fits individual situations.

 

[Eric Adrignola]

The problems seem to be edema. Any time a chameleon has edema, it is usually blamed on over supplementation. I know several people have reported gular edema and swollen eyes after supplementing their chameleons.

I also recall my friend losing his cb jacksonii to horrendous eye swelling. We - like seemingly everyone else at the time - believed it to be due to too much vitamin A. In retrospect, it was likely the opposite. He got no performed A, only herptivite.

 

[JaxyGirl]

I gutload/feed my insects with only greens and veggies...no prEformed sources of vitamin A. If do not feed my chameleons with any "meat" or meat "by-products" such as eggs, cheese, etc so there is no prEformed vitamin A from that either.

I would think it might be possible for veileds to convert prOformed sources since they eat greens and veggies...even if other species don't/cant.
Studies have shown that Veileds are just as suseptible

This comes from a vet well known in chameleon circles and ADCHAM...
http://www.uvma.org/chameleon/vitaminA.htm
This article suggests that Preformed Vitamin A can absolutely be toxic in large quantities if it is used as an extra supplement by itself. Which is true.

Lots of info on nutrient content...
http://www.organicvaluerecovery.com/studies/studies_nutrient_content_of_insects.htm

Wild crickets and other insects do carry more Vitamin A and other vitamins then the house crickets we feed to our chams. No one really knows why? Is it their diet, UVB and UVA radiation? Is it because the food they eat out in the wild is more nutrient dense because it is fresh unlike store bought veggies that loose nutrients hours after they hit the shelves? The same ingreadiants that are in our gut loads? The House Crickets and other feeders that we gut load and feed our chams do not have the same amount of nutrients that is found in wild feeders.

 

[JaxyGirl]

The problems seem to be edema. Any time a chameleon has edema, it is usually blamed on over supplementation. I know several people have reported gular edema and swollen eyes after supplementing their chameleons.

I also recall my friend losing his cb jacksonii to horrendous eye swelling. We - like seemingly everyone else at the time - believed it to be due to too much vitamin A. In retrospect, it was likely the opposite. He got no performed A, only herptivite.

Eric, thats interesting about your friends Cham and it makes you wonder if a little Prefomed Vitamin A could have saved the chams life. It's litterly food for thought

 

[JaxyGirl]

I think that there is so much fear of over supplimenting with Preformed Vitamin A that we're treating our chams like vegetarians by not providing any or very little Preformed Vitamin A derived from animal products in their food.

Chameleons are Omnivors. The definition of An omnivore /ˈɒmnivɔər/ is an animal whose species normally derives its energy and nutrients from a diet consisting of a variety of food sources that may include plants, animals, algae, fungi and bacteria.[1]

What I've been trying to say through this research is that yes, over suplimentation with Preformed Vitamin A through powders, liquids etc can cause toxicity in chameleons. It is best to use Preformed Vitamin A suppliments when the chameleon is actually sick.

My point is that most gut loaded feeders do not contain enough Preformed Vitamen A to sustain the health of a chameleon. Unfortunately, the deficiency isn't usually noticed until the chameleon is really sick.
Prevention is the key here. (I'm not talking about adding Vitamin A supplements on your feeders or in your feeders)

What I'm talking about is changing the way we think our chams diet should be and start giving them what they need by adding a little real Preformed Vitamen A to your chams diet (along with their feeders) a couple times a week in the form of real fresh fish, shrimp, chicken and meat. This is how chams ate in the wild. By doing so it might just improve your chams health now and prevent disease in the future.

 

[Venutus1]

Great job JaxyGirl.

Thank you.
Todd

 

[kinyonga]

JaxyGirl said..."this article suggests that preformed vitamin A can absolutely be toxic in large quantities if it is used as an extra supplement by itself"....it can be toxic if there's enough of it in a supplement with other things too and as indicated its interaction with D3 can mask its affects somewhat which IMHO makes it even more dangerous in the hands of someone who doesn't understand all of this.

Do be interested in reading the studies that indicate that veileds are just as susceptible.

JaxyGirl said.."we're treating our chameleons like vegetarians"....studies show that vegans (true "vegetarians") don't suffer from hypovitaminosis A as a rule.

I still want to know why my chameleons have never shown indications of hypovitaminosis A and I don't gutload/feed insects anything but greens and veggies nor do I ever supplement with any vitamin powder containing prEformed vit A or with prEformed vitamin A on its own and my chameleons don't have the gland issues...or eye issues that are so often attributed to vitamin A deficiencies.

Also...what they really need to get all the nutrients is their natural diet...from the area they live in in the wild.

 

[JaxyGirl]

Great job JaxyGirl.

Thank you.
Todd

Thanks so much Todd! That's a great compliment! I've loved all the posts and threads you've had about the importance of correct UVB lighting and the effect it has on the production of vitamin D3 in chameleons

 

[JaxyGirl]

JaxyGirl said..."this article suggests thatreformed vitamin A can absolutely be toxic in large quantities if it is used as an extra supplement by itself"....it can be toxic if there's enough of it in a supplement with other things too and as indicated its interaction with D3 can mask its affects somewhat which IMHO makes it even more dangerous in the hands of someone who doesn't understand all of this.
I have not suggested using Vitamin A supplimenting powders to put on feeders or in your feeders gut load. Nor have I suggested trying to treat your chameleons health issues with large quantities of vitamin A (that should be under advice from a veterinarian only) What I have suggested through research is that Preformed Vitamin A would be bennifical to a chameleons diet by offering fresh chicken, fish and meat along with their gut loaded feeders. Maybe it's time that we change they way we feed our chams and become more informed about their dietary needs.
I can't imagine that anyone who reads this thread thinks that I'm telling them to run to their local drugstore and buy Vitamin A to sprinkle all over their feeders in large quantities because that's not what I'm stating at all. It's simple. Add some foods to your chams diet that they would eat if they were in the wild and that consists of meat from animals

Do be interested in reading the studies that indicate that veileds are just as susceptible.
I've posted articles on this thread that states all captive chameleons are susceptible to Vitamin A deficiencies because of lack of Preformed Vitamin A in their diets. I'm sure you've seen the treads on Veileds with health issues such as MBD etc. when this happens everyone starts increasing calcium and vitamin D3 supplements and in many cases it doesn't work. Vitamin D in large quantities can be just as deadly as vitamin A toxicity.
The question here is why are these chams developing these problems when the majority of owners are providing Calcium, vitamin D and correct UVB lighting and well fed feeders??
It should lead us to believe that something else is missing. I wanted to know what that could be and through research it lead me to Vitamin A deficiencies as one of the major causes of disease in chameleons.

JaxyGirl said.."we're treating our chameleons like vegetarians"....studies show that vegans (true "vegetarians") don't suffer from hypovitaminosis A as a rule.
Humans have enzymes that break down Beta Carotine and convert to Vitamin A in the liver. Chameleons do not have these enzymes. I
http://www.vitasentials.com/a-25.htm
I still want to know why my chameleons have never shown indications of hypovitaminosis A and I don't gutload/feed insects anything but greens and veggies nor do I ever supplement with any vitamin powder containing prEformed vit A or with prEformed vitamin A on its own and my chameleons don't have the gland issues...or eye issues that are so often attributed to vitamin A deficiencies.
i honestly don't know the answer to this questions. I've never seen your chams, I don't know what species they are. How old they are. What the average lifespan for your chams are. What your husbandry is like etc.

Also...what they really need to get all the nutrients is their natural diet...from the area they live in in the wild.

Thats a good question because as the owners and care keepers of captive chameleons it is our job to know how to provide the most nutritional diet that is closest to their natural diet as possible. We already know that different species of chams need different things however they are all suseptible to vitamin A deficiencies. There is a huge connection between common health issues such as MBD, URI, Mouth Rot and other ailments that begin with a dietary deficiency and progress to life threatening diseases because the chameleon does not have the ability to fight diseases due to malnutrition. I wanted to know why these diseases are so common even though most of us are gut loading our feeders correctly, dusting our feeders and providing the correct lighting? There must be a reason or reasons right?!One of these common threads that I found is Vitamin A deficiency. I wanted to know why? So I did some research that I found was very eye opening. It is up to the Cham owner if they want to add fish chicken or meat in small quantities to their chams diet which in turn provides natural Preformed Vitamin A and other vitamins and minerals that they are not getting from the typical gut loaded feeders.

 

[frenchiechic]

Great info. for me and my panther!

This is a great and informative thread. I've been so worried about my 1 year old panther and went to the vet yesterday. He's showing signs of Vitamin A deficiency and the vet encouraged me to vary his diet and supplement his food with vitamin A powder. Also she suggested I increase his misting and the overall humidity of his surroundings.
Lips isn't eating much, nor drinking water and is very lethargic. He's keeping his eyes pretty much closed all day and I think they look swollen.

I have never gut loaded my crickets with any cat food, raw tuna, etc. but this seems like a good thing to do.

I am in an area where finding a real reptile vet isn't easy so I'm sort of concerned about the advice I was given.
Any other advice any of you have to help me would be great. I'm sad and just want to do the right thing for him.

 

[SocialNumb]

I'm really curious as to how Chameleons get access to raw meats in the wild? I'm also curious as to how they don't get sick eating this raw meat they happen to come by.