Viserion, The "Ice Dragon" :)

@Rogue I'm so sorry for the loss of your little baby and happy you have a new one. I hope you keep the kitten, but if you do, you need to probably put him in a glass terrarium. A 36" x 36" x 18" ExoTerra should work for him. Don't be afraid of glass. They work just fine as long as they are big enough. They need a lot of monitoring to get set up correctly but really, so does screen (which I hate by the way).

I read through your sad post of your first baby and know your emotions are really raw right now. I'm sorry you are dealing with that and I'm sure you don't want some stranger like me telling you what you could have done differently. I want to be very clear--I don't think anything you could have done would have changed the outcome. I think your vet was being a bit optimistic to think that baby would survive his injuries. I do not think a tear to the lungs is likely to be survivable with the lungs collapsing. Even if he survived his initial injury, I wonder if there would have been permanent partially collapsed lungs that would have been a likely area for infection of some sort to start.

When reading your heart breaking story, I noticed a few things you did that did not help. Again, I want to also be clear that I do not believe what you did actually made any difference to the final outcome. I think the injuries were fatal and if he didn't die from the injuries to the lungs, there was a very good chance he would die from a bacterial infection for the cats claws/saliva. Cats have wicked wicked bacteria in their saliva. [Believe me, I know--my eldest son almost died of "cat scratch fever" when only 6 years old. He was incredibly sick for two months, in an out of hospitals for weeks at a time.]

There are other situations where better handling of the sick or injured animal very well could make the difference between your chameleon living or dying so I want to pass that along to you and others who read your very sad story.

In one of your posts, you wrote that you had him on your lap. Being handled is very stressful for chameleons at the best of times, especially for babies. Babies are really wild and fearful--it's their nature. Next time you are dealing with a sick or injured animal, please limit handling to the bare minimum and put them away in lots of cover. Don't try to feed him or get him to drink immediately. Just make up a hospital cage with 100% humidity and leave him alone with lots of cover. If you were worried about him dehydrating, the vet should have given him subcutaneous fluids when he was stitching him up.

Chameleons are not mammals with a social structure. They don't crave being comforted. While we humans desperately want to give comfort to our sick and injured chameleons, please know that you are not helping the animal at all. I know, its hard to just put them away and not look.

Good luck with your new baby. He's very pretty.
 
AMdoubleER said:
I know exactly what you mean @Kristen Wilkins! With owning a chameleon it amazes me how truly smart they are! I tell people all the time that chameleons with their little brains are actually smarter than some dogs! #fact
Click to expand...

I think the only dog a chameleon is ever smarter than is a dead dog! Their problem solving abilities are very poor to non existent. Their brains are very simple--reproduction, food, shelter. Enjoy them for what they are, not what you wish they could be but never can.
 
jajeanpierre said:
@Rogue I'm so sorry for the loss of your little baby and happy you have a new one. I hope you keep the kitten, but if you do, you need to probably put him in a glass terrarium. A 36" x 36" x 18" ExoTerra should work for him. Don't be afraid of glass. They work just fine as long as they are big enough. They need a lot of monitoring to get set up correctly but really, so does screen (which I hate by the way).

I read through your sad post of your first baby and know your emotions are really raw right now. I'm sorry you are dealing with that and I'm sure you don't want some stranger like me telling you what you could have done differently. I want to be very clear--I don't think anything you could have done would have changed the outcome. I think your vet was being a bit optimistic to think that baby would survive his injuries. I do not think a tear to the lungs is likely to be survivable with the lungs collapsing. Even if he survived his initial injury, I wonder if there would have been permanent partially collapsed lungs that would have been a likely area for infection of some sort to start.

When reading your heart breaking story, I noticed a few things you did that did not help. Again, I want to also be clear that I do not believe what you did actually made any difference to the final outcome. I think the injuries were fatal and if he didn't die from the injuries to the lungs, there was a very good chance he would die from a bacterial infection for the cats claws/saliva. Cats have wicked wicked bacteria in their saliva. [Believe me, I know--my eldest son almost died of "cat scratch fever" when only 6 years old. He was incredibly sick for two months, in an out of hospitals for weeks at a time.]

There are other situations where better handling of the sick or injured animal very well could make the difference between your chameleon living or dying so I want to pass that along to you and others who read your very sad story.

In one of your posts, you wrote that you had him on your lap. Being handled is very stressful for chameleons at the best of times, especially for babies. Babies are really wild and fearful--it's their nature. Next time you are dealing with a sick or injured animal, please limit handling to the bare minimum and put them away in lots of cover. Don't try to feed him or get him to drink immediately. Just make up a hospital cage with 100% humidity and leave him alone with lots of cover. If you were worried about him dehydrating, the vet should have given him subcutaneous fluids when he was stitching him up.

Chameleons are not mammals with a social structure. They don't crave being comforted. While we humans desperately want to give comfort to our sick and injured chameleons, please know that you are not helping the animal at all. I know, its hard to just put them away and not look.

Good luck with your new baby. He's very pretty.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your kind words and your input. I never take any advice as anything but positive help (read my signature :) ). I was quite emotional when I wrote about him being in my lap and did not properly explain that Proteus was in his carrier and his carrier was in my lap. We were in the car going home from the hospital. The vet was very concerned about infection from our kitten's saliva and even his claws. Sadly all they could do for Proteus was give him an antibiotic injection and hope for the best. They didn't sugarcoat the situation; I think the "good prognosis" was my interpretation as I wanted to stay hopeful and positive. In all reality, I knew his chances were grim :(. Other than placing him gently in his carrier, he was not handled.

We are sticking with our screened viv but adjustments have been made to make it nearly impossible for Loki to get to Viserion. I will take pictures of the before and now when I get home. We have decided to keep Loki because I now know it wasn't his fault. He was captured as a kitten and we believe he was feral. Loki was horribly abused (he has a permanent bent tail in two places where his tail was broken and never treated) so we now know his hunting instincts are beyond his "control". Loki is allowed to be in the room with the viv, but only under our strict supervision. During the day when we are at work and at night when we sleep, he is kept safely in our bedroom.
We HAD two sets of screen up at the top where Proteus had wiggled in between so it was all to easy for Loki to climb up, open a hole in the screen, and get a hold of Proteus. Now there are 3 layers of protection including metal bars with thin gaps and Viserion cannot climb to the roof of his viv.
Thank you for your concern and pointers. Any and ALL suggestions are always welcome :)
 
Viserion has his first check up this Saturday with the vet. Hopefully he will provide fresh poo & urate for me to take. Fingers crossed for a clean bill of health!
 
Ok, here is a short video (and by short, I mean 3 minutes lol!) on what changes we have made. These are temporary as we are going to get plexiglass to replace the plastic barrier inside of his viv. Here is the before picture of the top:

20170819_121027.jpg


And here is the video of the changes.

 
So, a quick funny. We decided to give supers another go. My husband @J.Bauer placed a dusted super a few inches away from Viserion. He watched the worm slowly crawl towards him without a single movement. I thought, "this is it! He will eat it!". Then, it crawled across Viserion's paw and, I kid you not, Viserion threw the damn thing out of his viv. Sooooo, we are freeing the supers lol.
 
Rogue said:
So, a quick funny. We decided to give supers another go. My husband @J.Bauer placed a dusted super a few inches away from Viserion. He watched the worm slowly crawl towards him without a single movement. I thought, "this is it! He will eat it!". Then, it crawled across Viserion's paw and, I kid you not, Viserion threw the damn thing out of his viv. Sooooo, we are freeing the supers lol.
Click to expand...
Lol that is funny . He told you !!.
 
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