What is the best plan of action when dealing with a "bad" reptile store?

[Syn]

With all of the "bad" reptile store threads lately, I've been wondering:

What would you do?

If you see chameleons being treated poorly,
If you see other reptiles in with the chameleons,
If you could adopt versus purchase,
etc.


I'd just like to know if there is a good plan of action to go with if anyone encounters an event like many have recently.

Is there really even a specific way to go about this, or does it vary from situation to situation?

I know everyone will have opinions about this and at times the thread will have very heated debates, don't forget people have feelings and there are forum rules.

 

[Jimturner]

Around here there isn't really a "good" store to go to... they all seem to have problems with chams. I think the problem stems from the fact that chams have such specialized care requirements unlike most other "pet" reptiles. What has "worked" for the store in the past just doesn't apply to chams. They don't have the resources, space or knowledge to house them "correctly" and hope they will sell quickly enough that their sub-par temporary housing will work. Another factor is that most cham buyers at a store are uneducated impulse shoppers who have no clue as to what a healthy cham even looks like let alone what good or bad husbandry is. This all adds up to some sickly chams. Sad. In the past I have tried to talk to the stores and got little results but lots of attitude... Now I don't even look at the animals... just a quick in & out when I need to visit one of these establishments to get supplies. Not a great solution but it works for me.

 

[Syn]

Thanks for your input, Jim.

I have to agree, they probably just hope the chameleons will be in and out... and when it's not the case....

 

[Olimpia]

We have a pet store here that is decent in respects to small mammals, birds, (maybe) fish, and more or less with the reptiles. By more or less I mean that some of the reptiles are doing just fine in their set-ups and a couple are not. They have one green tree monitor that clearly has had a growth on his jaw for some time now, and I don't think they are treating him for it. They also occassionally get chameleons, and the older ones are nearly always suffering from MBD already.

Thing is, this store takes in a lot of donated animals to re-sell, so I don't think they buy them this way, but still, someone should be able to tell apart a healthy cham from a sickly one.

I've suggested just simple things, because they do keep them in large screen cages, but they usually need a lot more water than what they're getting, but I think it all falls of deaf ears. Which I think is what usually happens, unless you were able to tell them that you're a vet or something, they're going to think, "what authority do you have to tell me how to run my store?" Who are you to know better than the reptile department manager? So I think that's why we get so many blank stares and dismissive attitudes.

I don't bother to say much any more. There's nothing I can do short of just reporting them to an authority of some sort. I just don't buy animals like that from pet stores and that's it. Beyond not giving them money for ill animals I don't know what else to do. Well, not true, I did apply to work there in hopes of being the change I wanted to see in that store, but I never got a call back.

 

[tdotcham]

The big al's in Oakville, Ontario is horrendous. I hate when I have no other choice but to go buy overpriced feeders there when im in a rush (its 1 minute away). I always see dying chameleons, the staff dont know/don't care...

I went in there yesterday, and the females they had were either infected with horrible worms or had a bad skin problem... really wish they would just screw off and stop selling dying animals to paying customers... especially when 249.99 is the cheapest panther they offer

 

[Syn]

So many problems but no solutions yet...

 

[DavidBuchan]

I can't really help......I have two local shops, rarely get Chams in - the Veileds go quick so they always have uv, little crickets and flies, and vit. dust.
I only seen two panthers in Hull, and only last week....... both kept in the shop for breeding stock. The vivs were smaller than I would have kept them in, but the owner was very proud to show me them........
Find out who the local official or group who deals with this stuff is and tell them.....what else can you do? After you've tried to tell the staff what is wrong, of course.....but from what I've read people tend to not listen..........
I know if there was a problem that wasn't rectified I could report to the RSPCA - they do a good job, and have the power to seize animals and bring prosecutions.

 

[SonTigerPantherCham]

Write a letter in detail with pics
Give a copy to the store owner
Send a copy to pet-abuse.com ( will need to look up their addy)
Send a copy to the BBB
This is at least a start, if 1 store gets enough complaints, something will be done.
abuse/neglect is a crime and is punishable by fines or prison
Anne

 

[Syn]

Write a letter in detail with pics
Give a copy to the store owner
Send a copy to pet-abuse.com ( will need to look up their addy)
Send a copy to the BBB
This is at least a start, if 1 store gets enough complaints, something will be done.
abuse/neglect is a crime and is punishable by fines or prison
Anne

That is a good plan of action. Thank you!

 

[SonTigerPantherCham]

Here goes...and its long and not complete:
13 states have NO regulatory laws, all 50 have animal cruelty laws

Only 20states require food/water, 4 incl Ca require food only

Calif law requires written husbandry at time of purchase

18 states have "lemon laws"
Az,Ar,Ca,Ct,De,Fl,Me,Ma,Mm,Nv,Nj,Ny,Pa,RI,SC,Vt, Va
US has only 85 USDA inspectors!

AnimalWelfareAct
www.aphis.uses.gov/animal.welfare/index.shtml

There is alot more info, but I thougt this was a start
anne

 

[Syn]

great start! Lemon laws, meaning if you buy a sick pet, or?

 

[SonTigerPantherCham]

Yes, there are laws pertaining to purchasing a sick and pet that dies. It also states there is reasonable amts for Vet care reimbursment
You will need to look on your states laws

 

[Texas Panther Man]

I dont buy anything at lps anymore. I tried to help a lps owner with tips on his herps and his feeders. Fell on deaf ears, he'd always listen say yes I see what your saying then he'd never change any of the setups. Finally I gave up after he messed up my bulk feeder order. Some ppl cant be helped. Just order all your supplies online and deal with reputable breeeders for your animal purchases. Talk with your wallet. If the store sees sales dwindle to nothing they may take the hint somethings wrong.

 

[Eltortu]

So many problems but no solutions yet...

Other than bringing it up to the manager or owner of the store, really, what else can you do? I doubt authorities will give any interest if you make a formal complaint. There are a few pet stores here along with the Petcos and Petsmarts. Most do take the time to keep their animal cages clean, heat and humidity levels as required. The girls at Petsmart are the best at it.

 

[Seeco]

Yeah tip off your local fish and game agent or SPCA but be prepared to get your house lit on fire

No seriously the problem is the customers. In the US we have a higher than average wealth so we can afford useless pets. The problem is that most of our fellows have a lower than average spirituality or connection to nature. Enslaving nature is how we became rich enough to afford pets -- Clearcutting forests, mountaintop removal mining, killing the bison, whales, passenger pigeon and of course native residents

So all that stuff was happening very recently in the scheme of things. The customers that support such pet shops may even have a great, great, grandfather that shot 20 bison and left them to rot on the plains. So I think America is getting there but it will be a long time before we are all on the same page.

That said, the only way for people to connect to nature is to have some experience of control over it. Maybe after buying something from that pet store they will realize how beautiful wild animals are and take a path in life that protects more animals than that store harms. Hopefully.

 

[LittleRucker]

I would tell the pet store that you are a chameleon hobbyist and in no way are you trying to be rude BUT you know some things about proper care and you know the diseases that could come not only into the chameleon cage but into THEIR store!! Communication is less of what you say and more of who you are and how you say it!!! See if they have a chameleon guide for sale in the store. If you are completely passionate about them, you'll keep badgering and showing examples. I recently had to explain to a pet store about screen cages, the next day when I went to get a mouse for a friends snake they were appropriately changed. I then explained that the male veiled and the female Jackson probably shouldn't be able to see each other in their separate cages. I went in 2 weeks later to them explaining that the female was gravid! More chameleons to sell, but they got lucky!! If they were to take my information the wrong way I would try and make it come off like I absolutely LOVE the store and wouldn't want them looking bad lol if they are just outright rude threaten to turn them in.. You made get kabooted BUT maybe they will be afraid and change it!!! Confrontation and the fear of it goes out the window and justice prevails!!! Haha

 

[LittleRucker]

They DID move them away from each other. This particular store is pretty good and they care about their product, but if they didn't, I would be getting pretty feisty, there is no room for being "appropriate" if they aren't going to be polite and take a person trying to offer help. I would be outside protesting and making them look bad til they listen!! Haha

 

[LittleRucker]

I can't imagine how dirty their cricket farms are... So even if it was the only pet store available in a reasonable distance and you want to be a chameleon owner, I would say it's time to create your own pet store for your needs that would make one fun bio class!! You could even learn how to test your own stools for parasites!! Haha DREAM!

 

[clarkrw3]

I don't know what the answer is. I know Dave Weldon had good experience with just asking if he could mist the chams for them. Things progressed until he was installing a misting system for them. I know there are a couple of stores here in town (AZ) that I have had issue with. I use to take hornworms into give to their chams to help with hydration issues but they started giving them to the frilled and bearded dragons I most recently went to a store that had the worse kept cages I have ever seen and had a female vailed with burns and clearly VERY full with eggs sitting on bark chips Also another store that had probably 50+ Jacksons baby to adult all housed together, pregnant females in with multiple adult males and dead and dying chams in cages with what looked to be health individuals.

I think that it just takes time, quiet caring demeanor and leading by example if at all possible. I don't believe in buying (rescuing) from LPS because it only adds to the problem. If they continue to order in chams that die on them it doesn't take too long before they stop getting them in. Also the confrontation approach doesn't help. Most reptile stores/employees have an arrogance about them that only gets worse if confronted. I honestly think (not cham owners) most reptile owners are lazy pet keepers. You don't have to feed them that often, they just sit in their cage, you take them out every once in a while to hold them, they die after a year or two and you get something else. This mentality does not work well with Chams as we all know, but your average snake owner doesn't get this. They are use to LOW upkeep pets.