Lindasjackson
Chameleon Enthusiast
Is she having any tri wonder if her arm is broken and bleeding under the skin. Is she being treated for mbd?
What is this? Is it a cut or something else????
- Thread starter Ghostbirb
- Start date
What did the vet base the diagnosis of MBD on and what did the vet so to do about it?
The arm with the mark on it looks a bit swollen near the elbow to me...might just be the way she's sitting.
Can you post some photos of all of her so I can see her from both sides please?
Ghostbirb
Chameleon Enthusiast
I’m assuming how her legs look. He gave her a shot of calcium and I’ve been feeding her crickets and Dubai roaches in calcium without D3.
Here’s some photos, I can take more if needed
Her left leg looks swollen or maybe even broken....so maybe this is why the vet said she has MBD.
The right elbow (on the arm with the mark on it) just below the bend looks swollen too. Not sure what the mark is from...but looks almost like she scratched it on something.
What did the vet say to do about the MBD?
The right elbow (on the arm with the mark on it) just below the bend looks swollen too. Not sure what the mark is from...but looks almost like she scratched it on something.
What did the vet say to do about the MBD?
Ghostbirb
Chameleon Enthusiast
Not much, just have the correct lighting and supplements. He told me she didn’t have a rubbery jaw, so had a better chance of recovery. (I’ll be honest I don’t terribly remember)
Ghostbirb
Chameleon Enthusiast
I’m fully ready to have to go to the vet if it’s needed
If you want to know what vet it is, here’s a link
https://broomfieldvet.com/
If you want to know what vet it is, here’s a link
https://broomfieldvet.com/
To correct MBD you need to give the chameleon liquid calcium as well as make sure the supplements are corrected and the right UVB light is used. Once the bones are strong again you can drop the liquid calcium and keep proper supplements and UVB also make sure you feed/gutload the insects properly. You will likely need to get the liquid calcium from the vet.
Proper supplementing...phos free calcium at all feedings lightly at all feedings but one a week. On the one day alternate between a phos free calcium/D3 powder lightly and a vitamin powder with no D3 but with a prEformed source of vitamin A lightly.
Recommended UVB light...long linear tube...Reptisun 5.0 or Arcadia 6% @Beman can tell you about the distances the lights should be placed at.
Proper supplementing...phos free calcium at all feedings lightly at all feedings but one a week. On the one day alternate between a phos free calcium/D3 powder lightly and a vitamin powder with no D3 but with a prEformed source of vitamin A lightly.
Recommended UVB light...long linear tube...Reptisun 5.0 or Arcadia 6% @Beman can tell you about the distances the lights should be placed at.
Ghostbirb
Chameleon Enthusiast
Ok so I sort of understand what your saying. Not fully getting the supplementing part. I’ve already gotten all the right lighting, (was already confirmed in a different thread). She gets calcium without d3 every day, then twice a month she get calcium with d3. I’m gut loading, needing to get someone options for that tho. And I’m planing on getting a calendar to make ensure I’m on schedule.
I don’t know anything about liquid calcium tho. Would you recommend going back to the vet?
You're missing one supplement...vitamins with no D3 but that has a prEformed source of vitamin A in it. Vitamin A, D3 either from supplements or produced by exposure to UVB, phos and calcium need to be in balance for good bone strength.
What are you gutloading each kind of insect with? What insects do you use?
I don't think you can get the right calcium from anywhere but the vets.
What are you gutloading each kind of insect with? What insects do you use?
I don't think you can get the right calcium from anywhere but the vets.
Ghostbirb
Chameleon Enthusiast
I have crickets and Dubai roaches. I gut load them with carrots and some other stuff. I’m going to go buy some more leaf greens. I will admit I haven’t been terribly on top of gut loading, but I’ll probably run to the store after school tomorrow.
So what I need is vitamin A without D3? Where could I get that?
For crickets, roaches, locusts, superworms said ou can use dandelion greens, kale, collards, endive, escarole, sweet red peppers, sweet potatoes, squash, zucchini, and a very bit of fruit like pears, apples, berries to feed/gutload.
You need three supplements....
1)Phos free calcium
2)Phos free calcium with D3
3) Vitamins that have no D3 but have a prEformed source of vitamin A (retinol, retinyl, etc)
Here's the rest of the story....
Phos, calcium, D3 and vitamin A all have to be in a certain balance.
There are 2 forms of vitamin A...prEformed and PrOformed.
PrEformed (retinol, retinyl, etc) is already for the body to use and can lead to overdoses....so you have to use it carefully.
PrOformed (beta carotene) is changed by the system as needed and can not be overdosed...but it might be that chameleons can not convert it well enough..so we give a little prEformed to ensure they get some. With an incorrect balance of vitamin A and vitamin D3, the chameleon will develop health issues.
D3 from supplements can be overdosed too...so we're careful with it. D3 produced from exposure to UVB in light or sunshine usually won't lead to an overdose as long as th chameleon can move in and out of it at will. Without D3, the calcium cannot be used by the chameleon. With too much D3 the chameleon will develop MBD.
Most feeder insects we use have a poor ratio of calcium to phos so we dust the insects with calcium to make up for it.
So basically since we don't know the exact amounts of each they need or are getting from our non-natural diet, we supplement the way and gutload the way I've explained.
Hope this makes it clearer!
I know you're young and if you don't understand it all, maybe you can show it to your parents and they can help to explain it! It's a lot to take in!
Ghostbirb
Chameleon Enthusiast
Ok I think understand more now! Thanks for explaining it to me. I actually got some collared greens tonight and plopped it into the bugs bins
Just a few questions I hope u don’t mind answering.
What does Phos stand for and do you have a suggestion for the best prEformed vitamins I can get?
I’m planing to get a calendar to keep all dates in track. Currently I have the calcium without D3 every day besides the 1st and 15th when I give some calcium with D3. (I do know before I got her that she was recently being given calcium with D3 every day.)
Oh and would the prEformed vitamin be given every day or every few?
Thank you for all the help!!!
Is there anything else I might be able to do for her and the spot on her arm?
Phos is phosphorus....I'm just too lazy to type it all the time!
If you get this one....you will only need two supplements...because the reptivite has D3 and Vitamin A Acetate in it and all the other vitamins a chameleon needs....
https://zoomed.com/reptivite-with-d3/
So you would then dust the insects lightly with the phos free calcium powder you already have every day but once every two weeks and on the those 2 days, you would dust lightly with the reptivite. So say on the first and fifteenth of the month you use the reptivite and all the other feeding days you use the phos free calcium.
You said..."(I do know before I got her that she was recently being given calcium with D3 every day.)"...that likely contributed to her MBD.
Well soon have you trained on chmeleon care!
If you get this one....you will only need two supplements...because the reptivite has D3 and Vitamin A Acetate in it and all the other vitamins a chameleon needs....
https://zoomed.com/reptivite-with-d3/
So you would then dust the insects lightly with the phos free calcium powder you already have every day but once every two weeks and on the those 2 days, you would dust lightly with the reptivite. So say on the first and fifteenth of the month you use the reptivite and all the other feeding days you use the phos free calcium.
You said..."(I do know before I got her that she was recently being given calcium with D3 every day.)"...that likely contributed to her MBD.
Well soon have you trained on chmeleon care!
Ghostbirb
Chameleon Enthusiast
Oh! I have that vitamin already!Phos is phosphorus....I'm just too lazy to type it all the time!
If you get this one....you will only need two supplements...because the reptivite has D3 and Vitamin A Acetate in it and all the other vitamins a chameleon needs....
https://zoomed.com/reptivite-with-d3/
So you would then dust the insects lightly with the phos free calcium powder you already have every day but once every two weeks and on the those 2 days, you would dust lightly with the reptivite. So say on the first and fifteenth of the month you use the reptivite and all the other feeding days you use the phos free calcium.
You said..."(I do know before I got her that she was recently being given calcium with D3 every day.)"...that likely contributed to her MBD.
Well soon have you trained on chmeleon care!
If it is a break the vet can not do anything for her unfortunately. You could always take her in to ensure there are not any additional issues.
I am back to wondering if it is a break from a fall... How easily does she maneuver the branches in her cage? You may need to add in additional branches to ensure there are not wide spaces that she could lose grip and fall from.
I am back to wondering if it is a break from a fall... How easily does she maneuver the branches in her cage? You may need to add in additional branches to ensure there are not wide spaces that she could lose grip and fall from.
Ghostbirb
Chameleon Enthusiast
she can move around her cage pretty easily. Her legs don't seem to affect her too much. I have lots of branches criss crossing and I've added more recently after seeing places where she might have trouble turning around. Although she likes taking the shortest route that involves climbing even if there's a easier way not as close by.
Thank you again for all the advice!!!!!
Nachitos about 6-7 months old now (i've had her officially one full month now!!!) should I start to cut back on her food amount or should I wait another month?
Also could you share a page that would help me learn how to build her trust? Id like to start that as soon as possible
. I've seen some threads but i'm not sure how well it will work since her cage is pretty tall compared to where I would sit and hold my hand.Here's a photo of the cage for an idea of her travel paths. It’s changed a bit from the full cage photo, but the zoomed in one of her at her feeder show a little more paths higher up that I installed
She is still quite small and recovering I do not know that I would cut back her food yet because of it.she can move around her cage pretty easily. Her legs don't seem to affect her too much. I have lots of branches criss crossing and I've added more recently after seeing places where she might have trouble turning around. Although she likes taking the shortest route that involves climbing even if there's a easier way not as close by.
Thank you again for all the advice!!!!!
Nachitos about 6-7 months old now (i've had her officially one full month now!!!) should I start to cut back on her food amount or should I wait another month?
Also could you share a page that would help me learn how to build her trust? Id like to start that as soon as possible
Here's a photo of the cage for an idea of her travel paths. It’s changed a bit from the full cage photo, but the zoomed in one of her at her feeder show a little more paths higher up that I installed
View attachment 322532View attachment 322533
How much are you feeding now and how often?
I would add in some more branches for her. Just because her mobility is going to be impacted due to her MBD.
I would like to just double check the UVB. Which T5 bulb strength do you have and what is the distance from the bottom of the fixture to the branches right below the fixture?
Here is my blog on trust building. https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/building-trust-with-your-chameleon.2396/
You might not need to sit when doing this. Especially if you are shorter like I am. As long as your below her she will feel safe. I did all my trust building through hand feeding. I also used the same green colored cup to pour in their feeders. They learned that when they saw the cup I was adding food and would always come to the front for me.
Ghostbirb
Chameleon Enthusiast
This is the UVB light
Its was originally about 8-9 inches maybe a tiny bit lower from her top branch, now its higher than that due to the basking spot getting to hot (82-83 degrees F) in the afternoons, although it seems to fluctuate depending on the weather and it still can get that warm when the sun is starting to set.
| Arcadia D3 6% UVB T5 Bulb - 22" |
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Just a thought, does she have any 'pied' in her bloodline?
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