dshuld
Chameleon Enthusiast
Haha I kind of felt that way with diy cages one. They get easier to do after the first one though lol.
With this budget, what setup would you get
- Thread starter celeste_knitter
- Start date
Haha I kind of felt that way with diy cages one. They get easier to do after the first one though lol.
celeste_knitter
Chameleon Enthusiast
I was out of town for a few days, but today my step-dad & I got the misting system up & running. Not all of the plants are hung, most are just sitting on the floor but the pothos, dracenia, and other bigger plants are in their places. The bromeliads are mounted & placed. The lights are set & all the branches (dowels) are set. More pics soon as the finished temp cage comes together.
I'm going to set up the misting timer tomorrow...what schedules are good?
I'm going to set up the misting timer tomorrow...what schedules are good?
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celeste_knitter
Chameleon Enthusiast
Ok - here is what I have my mistking set up for currently. Please give feedback:
Lights are on 8am - 8pm.
8am - 5 min
12 noon - 3 min
3 pm - 1 min 30 sec
6 pm - 2 min
midnight - 1 min due to the fact that heat & air come on more at night & humidity will drop more significantly
Thanks!
Lights are on 8am - 8pm.
8am - 5 min
12 noon - 3 min
3 pm - 1 min 30 sec
6 pm - 2 min
midnight - 1 min due to the fact that heat & air come on more at night & humidity will drop more significantly
Thanks!
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dshuld
Chameleon Enthusiast
How high off the cage do you have the pool bulbs? Keep an eye on temps below those bulbs especially with a little one that will likely hang upside down from the top occasionally.
For the ones that I still have on the "old" method of keeping my schedule is
lights on: 8:30 - 8:30
mister: 8:45 am - 9 minutes
1 pm - 1 min
7:45 pm - 4 min
"new" method-
lights on 8:30 - 8:30
mister: 8:45 am - 8 min
1 pm - 1 min
7:45 - 3 min
12 am - 1 min
cool mister humidifier (subject to change as more get changed over):
12:01 am - 20 min
1:01 am - 20 min
2:01 am - 20 min
3:01 am - 20 min
4:01 am - 20 min
Not sure if this link will work, if not have Matt forward you the pdf I sent him over the weekend. Some interesting stuff in there, this one looks like an abbreviated version of the other.
https://www.extension.purdue.edu/extmedia/ho/ho-238-b-w.pdf
celeste_knitter
Chameleon Enthusiast
The pool bulbs are recessed into the holder about 1" and the holder is sitting on the screen. The temps have not been >85 degrees when I have checked, but I will keep a close eye on them to make sure.
I can open the PDF - interesting stuff.
So what is the rationale between the old & new methods? My concern with running longer than 5 minutes in the temp cage is that even with the shower curtain around the cage, there is still puddling on the stand when I ran it for 8-10 minutes. I'm going to put some towels there, but I would prefer to not have to change the towels out all the time. That said, I want to do what is best for the little guy!
ERKleRose
Chameleon Enthusiast
Do you have a drainage system set up?
celeste_knitter
Chameleon Enthusiast
I do, but the water is overspray and run off from the sides, not a drainage issue. There is very little water in the pan. In order to get spray in the basking area & cover most of the plants, it ends up hitting the sides - the longer it sprays, the more it is going to gather on the screen (mostly the left side as the misting nozzle is on the upper right corner), then it runs down the screen & shower curtain liner. This won't be an issue with my Dragonstrand clear side atrium!
ERKleRose
Chameleon Enthusiast
Could you seal the gap in any way?
dshuld
Chameleon Enthusiast
The Naturalistic Approach in Humidity and water management unleashed by Petr Necas
One of he most frequently discussed topic of chameleon husbandry is the water management...
What I want to focus now at is NOT a theory and it is NOT a technology. It is an important part of our Naturalistic Approach as it simulates perfectly what happens in the wild.
while at daytime, usually the humidity significantly drops to levels arouns 60-70% in dense rainforests and to even below 30% in the deserts, all at temperatures that are high. The only significant increase of humidity at daytime comes during the rains, but then, simultaneously, the temperatures drop dramatically too (due to cloud cover of the sun and due to temperature of the rain, which is usually in the 70s!)
This is what we must take into consideration and simulate in the captivity. It works, as it is natural!
It is of course much better than doing it differently, destroying natural cycles that chameleons are used to for tenths of millions of years and then compensate their discomfort with something else.
One example...
In the wild, chameleons are very rarely observed to drink... I was almost shocked two months back in Kenya, what the Jacksons chameleons did after 4 months drought with no single drop of rain... I was studying one of the populations and observed about 8 animals at one locality exactly at the moment when the first rain came.
What do you think the chams did?Run for water? Catching every single drop after thirsty 4 months?
NO!!!
They hide in the bushes and slept in!
Why?
Because they were perfectly hydrated and wanted to escape the rain!
Many chameleon species are considered heavy drinkers. Such as e.g. T. melleri. Nonsense. They do not drink for months in the wild, simply as there is nothing to drink! But, they perfectly hydrate at night breathing in moist air and fog,
Which is daily available.
In the captivity, people often let chameleons desiccate at night having night humidity levels low and then they come in with he fakse observation: they are heavy drinkers! They are not! They just have to compensate through drinking the wrong humidity regime of the captive care!
If you hydrate properly, you will see them reducing the water intake through drinking significantly to the spot when they might stop drinking at all!
To be safe, please provide anyway water in the form of drippers and mist if necessary (while switching off the heating lamps to avoid RI).
Now, is it a new approach?
NO.
First, chameleons do it for millions of years in their home-countries. Every day and every night
And in captivity?
In indoor care, many (I am unhappy to say even a vast majority of) keepers destroy the natural humidity cycle in captivity, having the cages completely dry at night and misting at daytime only. Then they see chameleons heavily drink and often encounter health problems and disorders like bad shedding, infections of skin, eyes and respiratory tract...
Automatically, these colleagues who keep the chameleons outdoors, do it! Even though sometimes unknowingly
Welcome to the world of highest standards of chameleon welfare delivered through the magic and logic of the NATURALISTIC APPROACH in their husbandry.
celeste_knitter
Chameleon Enthusiast
I would have to replace the screen with something solid, which would not be good for ventilation. Other than that, not having misting times >10 minutes and keeping a towel to catch any leakage is about the best I can do at this point, which is why I was asking about the best misting timing sequence.
ERKleRose
Chameleon Enthusiast
Could you put waterproof putty or carve expanding foam and slope from the screen and shower curtain through the screen and down in to the pan? If the putty is animal safe, of course
celeste_knitter
Chameleon Enthusiast
I don't have any room to put a fogger or humidifier, but if instead of doing 1 short misting at midnight, I could do a couple of short mistings during the night - 20 seconds even, to keep the humidity up. Midnight, 4a, 6a. How does that sound? Even 15 seconds
celeste_knitter
Chameleon Enthusiast
No because the pan is one of the substrate pans that has a high lip - it would be a mess to do that and I think some of this might lessen once the plants are all hung, catching more of the water. We shall see. I'm not too worried about it right now. Even if I end up with a towel, neatly folded next to that side of the cage it's fine - you always need a towel. I think once the plants are all hung up, then the water will go more to the leaves and less onto the screen...dripping onto the tray like intended.
dshuld
Chameleon Enthusiast
I wouldn't do that no, what is your night time humidity like?
celeste_knitter
Chameleon Enthusiast
Well, we've only had the misting system set up overnight, but the memory on my hygrometer showed it got down to 30% humidity overnight.
dshuld
Chameleon Enthusiast
Interesting, I have to keep mine 3" away from the screen to achieve that temp 1.5" below the screen
. 2" above gets me ~92 at 1.5" below.....
celeste_knitter
Chameleon Enthusiast
weird! I checked with my temp gun & a temp/hygrometer gauge yesterday...will keep spot checking to make sure. I'm not sure how I will raise them if neededInteresting, I have to keep mine 3" away from the screen to achieve that temp 1.5" below the screen
dshuld
Chameleon Enthusiast
You may have to block off the sides then. I would start with the back and one side and see where that lands you. You should be safe blocking off the other side if need be leaving the front and top open on that cage. If you can get it up to 50 / 60% you should be ok. Option one would be plastic table cloth taped on (Wal-Mart for less then $10 with tape) , option two would be take the cage apart and put this inside https://www.homedepot.com/p/1-16-in-x-4-ft-x-8-ft-Plastic-Panel-63003/202090190. The second method would let you seal the cage so the water hits your drainage rather then out of the cage lol, ~$27 with ge silicone.
celeste_knitter
Chameleon Enthusiast
I already have plastic around 3 sides. I will watch and see if humidity picks up once the plants are in place and mister is going at a regular schedule. I really don't want to do dramatic things to this cage as my permanent cage is coming soon. Only if I reassemble it for a 2nd cham...IF, not when
dshuld
Chameleon Enthusiast
Sorry, I may have misread then, thought you said you didn't have sides covered...
