Eye issue/bleeding eye

[Knucklehead1912]

That bulb is way too hot!! There is your problem I believe. I use that same bulb for my bearded dragon and gets a basking temp of 110-120.

Use a household 60 watt or this 72w reveal bulb.

Please give this a try, feel bad for your guy!

I cant...I may be able to get away with that for the summer but I wont for winter. Ny basking temps are 80 I can comfortably stick my hand under where his basking spot is and not get hot at all ....
Right now I'm maintain 80 as its warm in my house ....but during the winter months even with 2 150watt bulbs I can barley manage a 75....if I do that he wont be able to digest.

I've gone over the lights that's not it....

 

[dshuld]

I cant...I may be able to get away with that for the summer but I wont for winter. Ny basking temps are 80 I can comfortably stick my hand under where his basking spot is and not get hot at all ....
Right now I'm maintain 80 as its warm in my house ....but during the winter months even with 2 150watt bulbs I can barley manage a 75....if I do that he wont be able to digest.

I've gone over the lights that's not it....

Give me a little bit to get to work, lights are part of your problem but it's not the basking bulb strength.

 

[dshuld]

Ok let start here, what happens when a very fair skinned person lays in the sun for 2 hours a day with no sunscreen for any where from a day to a week? They generally will get a pretty mild to severe sunburn depending on how many days they repeat the process right? Same person but they caked on spf50 this time? They may have an extremely mild sunburn at the end of a week of repeating the same 2 hour process?

 

[Knucklehead1912]

But if he was getting a sunburn or burn of any type wouldnt he have issues elsewhere? Not just the eyes? ..he has zero signs of that...anywhere else on his body. What other signs could that possibly cause ??

 

[raven1139]

I have tried chasing temperatures and it leads to stress and problems for both parties. Under the bulb should be around 90 using a regular bulb.

Don’t worry too much about ambient or cage temps. He will go under the basking bulb and regulate his own temperature.

 

[raven1139]

I have tried chasing temperatures and it leads to stress and problems for both parties. Under the bulb should be around 90 using a regular bulb.

Don’t worry too much about ambient or cage temps. I’m in Colorado with 70 average for cage air temperature. He will go under the basking bulb and regulate his own temperature. This will allow digestion as well.

 

[DavidL]

I can't speak to that basking bulb or to the problem with the eye but I can speak to challenges with maintaing ideal temps. I put my cham's cage in the basement so I could get him close to the sump for drainage purposes. The problem in the winter is that my basement gets to the low 50's and with the air conditioner in the summer its in the low 60s. In the winter I had to put hundreds of watts of light mounted a few inches from the cage to get the upper quadrent of the cage in the mid 80s. With this arrangment my panther didn't experience any burns or eye problems.

 

[Knucklehead1912]

I can't speak to that basking bulb or to the problem with the eye but I can speak to challenges with maintaing ideal temps. I put my cham's cage in the basement so I could get him close to the sump for drainage purposes. The problem in the winter is that my basement gets to the low 50's and with the air conditioner in the summer its in the low 60s. In the winter I had to put hundreds of watts of light mounted a few inches from the cage to get the upper quadrent of the cage in the mid 80s. With this arrangment my panther didn't experience any burns or eye problems.

yeah thats why i dont think its that. someone brought up that possibility before in chameleon central USA on FB but everyone ruled that out...i mean at this point it cant hurt to try but i dont think so. i did make another vet appt for him this saturday so im going to try and have some blood work done and hopefuly a fecal to see f any underlying issues ...fingers crossed it gives me something. ive searched high and low and t alked to dozens of ppl on this. not a single person could figure anything out..ive tried so much..definetly frusterating

 

[dshuld]

But if he was getting a sunburn or burn of any type wouldnt he have issues elsewhere? Not just the eyes? ..he has zero signs of that...anywhere else on his body. What other signs could that possibly cause ??

His eyes are more sensitive to the uv light then anywhere else on his body. That is why every thread that someone asks about putting the uv vertical instead of horizontal is given an absolute no do not do it. It can and will cause damage to their eyes and not show signs anywhere else on the body. The reason I specified 2 hours in my example is it has been said 2 hours of sunlight is equivalent to the 12 hours under the bulbs we use for them. Though our skin is not a direct correlation to their eyes it is an easier way to hopefully make the connection for others to understand.

The reason I brought up the center of your cage is it is pretty much void of plant life, fake or real, except the very last foot. Essentially he's having to choose eye damage or not warming up under basking spot the way the cage is set up now. The 10.0/ 12% bulbs should really be used on a cage where there is a lot of foliage to escape the uv and still be able to regulate their temps. A pothos hung in the back corner stretched over the upper stick so the he can tuck his head under the leaves to help protect his eyes and yet leave his body exposed to the uv would be where I would start. I would follow Andeee's advise on the linked thread, turn the uv bulb off and take him outside to a bush/ tree where he can't run away but still has leaf cover to tuck into for a 30 minutes a day for the next week. You said when you put the terramycin on for the week it helped clear it up. I think the terramycin is acting like a "sunblock" of sorts and giving his eyes time to recover a little from over exposure due to no place to hide his head and still be able regulate his uv/ heat exposure.

I have tried chasing temperatures and it leads to stress and problems for both parties. Under the bulb should be around 90 using a regular bulb.

Don’t worry too much about ambient or cage temps. I’m in Colorado with 70 average for cage air temperature. He will go under the basking bulb and regulate his own temperature. This will allow digestion as well.

I can't speak to that basking bulb or to the problem with the eye but I can speak to challenges with maintaing ideal temps. I put my cham's cage in the basement so I could get him close to the sump for drainage purposes. The problem in the winter is that my basement gets to the low 50's and with the air conditioner in the summer its in the low 60s. In the winter I had to put hundreds of watts of light mounted a few inches from the cage to get the upper quadrent of the cage in the mid 80s. With this arrangment my panther didn't experience any burns or eye problems.

That is what I was going to mention too. If he is in a basement that may be why there is the need for such high wattage basking bulbs. I know my parents unfinished basement in NC will be in the high 60's during the summer with outside temps around 89/ 90.

 

[Knucklehead1912]

and yeah right now temps llike i said arent a big deal but come winter it will be. it got pretty cold in my room this past winter, not even my dragosn temps could keep up and i usually dont struggle with theirs soince their in glass

 

[Knucklehead1912]

im getting confused now are we saying its the basking bulb that you think is causing it or the reptisun tube??? ... also i dont get home from work until 6pm during the week (weekends off ) by the time i get home, there really isnt much sun shining- its still light out just not much sun, especialy latley been cloudy and rainy...so then what?

 

[dshuld]

im getting confused now are we saying its the basking bulb that you think is causing it or the reptisun tube??? ... also i dont get home from work until 6pm during the week (weekends off ) by the time i get home, there really isnt much sun shining- its still light out just not much sun, especialy latley been cloudy and rainy...so then what?

I'm saying your basking bulbs are not your problem correct, the t5ho 10.0 light is. So you have 1 to 1.5 hours of evening sun then? UV will still penetrate the clouds so don't stress it being cloudy. If it is rainy, after you get some foliage for him to hide his head under on the top stick let him have the bulb for the few hours before his normal lights out time.

 

[Knucklehead1912]

So essentially, I could even reduce the light he has now to a 5.0 or Arcadia 6% and see how that works out. I have taken him outside on nice days but seemed to aggravate his eye after maybe 15 minutes or so ...I'm still opening to getting him outside maybe on weekends as it will be much easier but if what your saying is true I could always reduce the uv to see if that will help. Honestly I only went with 10.0 cause I got barked at saying if I didnt I would have issues having been new to chameleon ownership I listened. But I always thought the 5.0 would be fine as I have seen maybe people use them with zero issues. I feel like that's why they probably sell them more often knowing they dont need such strong amounts but that's just my thoughts and opinions.

Aside from the light SHOULD that not be the case for cause. Do you guys have any other ideas that I can look into? I'm not saying anyone wrong so please dont take it like that...I've just made so many adjustments with no improvements so I'm just trying to think 10 steps ahead

 

[JacksJill]

I get that you are looking for any and all possibilities. I'm sure everyone else does also.
I'm leaning toward infection because it responded to the terramycin. It's is possible the infection was secondary to a UVB burn.

 

[dshuld]

So essentially, I could even reduce the light he has now to a 5.0 or Arcadia 6% and see how that works out. I have taken him outside on nice days but seemed to aggravate his eye after maybe 15 minutes or so ...I'm still opening to getting him outside maybe on weekends as it will be much easier but if what your saying is true I could always reduce the uv to see if that will help. Honestly I only went with 10.0 cause I got barked at saying if I didnt I would have issues having been new to chameleon ownership I listened. But I always thought the 5.0 would be fine as I have seen maybe people use them with zero issues. I feel like that's why they probably sell them more often knowing they dont need such strong amounts but that's just my thoughts and opinions.

Aside from the light SHOULD that not be the case for cause. Do you guys have any other ideas that I can look into? I'm not saying anyone wrong so please dont take it like that...I've just made so many adjustments with no improvements so I'm just trying to think 10 steps ahead

Yes, you could reduce to 5.0 but still need to give him some kind of cover up in that area. @JacksJill may be right on an infection being secondary to a uv burn and would definitely make sense. It is very possible he got a uv burn that was irritating him, started rubbing his eyes on anything and everything causing an infection and is repeating the cycle as the terramycin is applied. The terramycin may be pulling triple duty here, clearing the infection if there is one, acting as a "sunblock" so his eyes aren't as irritated and lubricating them.

If I came off as harsh earlier it wasn't meant that way btw.

 

[JacksJill]

If you want to reduce the UV out put of your bulbs and see what happens you can wrap them in a layer of aluminum screen.

 

[dshuld]

If you want to reduce the UV out put of your bulbs and see what happens you can wrap them in a layer of aluminum screen.

This would be the route I'd go to save buying a new bulb just yet since this one is only a couple months old. Fiberglass screen will work too and is usually cheaper and easier to find depending on where you are.

 

[Knucklehead1912]

I get that you are looking for any and all possibilities. I'm sure everyone else does also.
I'm leaning toward infection because it responded to the terramycin. It's is possible the infection was secondary to a UVB burn.

He also responded to saline solution. I have been flushing his eyes out every day since April. It seems when I stopped the bleeding started. ...

The thing is, he went from febuary to April having on and off bloody eyes (both eyes switching on and off) he was clear from the two week dose of the terramycin. Then continued to be clear from April to now. During that time I didnt change anything as he qasnt having any issues. I continued to give him drops of saline in both eyes at least twice a day...since he went all that time with no issues aside from now being able to ear properly, I stopped doing the saline. And maybe a month after that? The bleeding started again...

Honestly I feel like it's a moisture issue of the eye- the ointment provides that as well as saline which leads me to wonder, is it dry eye? Can chameleons even get that? I imagine if they could and it was I can see how that would cause enough irritation to want to scratch and rub against the vines causing him to tear parts of his eye resulting in bleeding...I know it can happen with lack of water but his urates are snowy white so i know hes getting plenty of water intake...so that part dont make sense...

 

[Knucklehead1912]

Yes, you could reduce to 5.0 but still need to give him some kind of cover up in that area. @JacksJill may be right on an infection being secondary to a uv burn and would definitely make sense. It is very possible he got a uv burn that was irritating him, started rubbing his eyes on anything and everything causing an infection and is repeating the cycle as the terramycin is applied. The terramycin may be pulling triple duty here, clearing the infection if there is one, acting as a "sunblock" so his eyes aren't as irritated and lubricating them.

If I came off as harsh earlier it wasn't meant that way btw.

No I dont think that ...as I hope you dont think I'm not listening..I'm open to anything. See I'm not very creative and with both lights on the top of the cage I havent been able to find a way to somehow rig a plant up there to do that ..my plan was to let the schefferla grow big enough that it filled the cage which is working but slowly ..for a while I did add a grow light onto to help even the plant out but I've shut that off cause I'm sure that gives out uvb as well and probably too much

 

[Knucklehead1912]

I suppose I could always add fake plants for coverage too may have to go that route ...you know its funny my local pet store has Panthers and they use the coil bulbs and have forever...not once ever an issue...I wonder if I should take a chance with trying. They have alot of Panthers I imagine if it was hurting their health it would show it but their all beautiful and in really great shape. sometimes makes me wonder about all this hype people create about using specific products ya kno? ..

Also- do you guys think his eating I'd being affected by this? He appears to be able to see out of both eyes ...when all this started he still shot his tounge, but started missing then I started offering by hand as he always missed and he did fine with that but now he cant even get them out of my hand..and you know how sometimes they will lick you arm or something when walking? I noticed this week he cant even stick his tounge out now...any thoughts on that? Related? Unrelated? How to fix? ...the other night I offered a horn worm and he went nuts for it..I held it up to try and get him to use his tounge and he tried but it like wouldnt come out it looked like it got stuck on the roof of his mouth