Facebook Groups Make Me ANGRY!!!

[PetNcs]

From Camo's perspective, he offered to help. When he requested a form be filled out, he was told the form isn't allowed. Is using the form truly against your rules?

Also, illnesses have symptoms and causes. The form allows one to work on both. If a cham is sick, he needs a diagnosis. He also needs the original issue fixed that caused the illness.

This is not true!! He was NOT told the queationnaire is NOT ALLOWED, he was adviced rhat in that forum, suxh firms are not used. Please comprehend and give the corrext and not fakse information!!!
He was then asviced and approved tonuse it if he considers it useful for his help to the OP!

 

[CamoChameleonsHuman]

This is not true!! He was NOT told the queationnaire is NOT ALLOWED, he was adviced rhat in that forum, suxh firms are not used. Please comprehend and give the corrext and not fakse information!!!
He was then asviced and approved tonuse it if he considers it useful for his help to the OP!

Thank you for joining the conversation Peter. I think everyone here knows and understands your experience and knowledge is invaluable to this community and the chameleons most importantly. My thread is your thread let us speak as evolved respectful primates.

 

[jamest0o0]

Where doea your statement a out higher risk of RI from fogger? It is absolutely contradicting the evidence I have conditikned yiu use the fogger ag night and at kiw temoeratures under 20’C

I never said anything as fact or claimed my way was 100% right. It was my opinion... where has a mister killed a chameleon?

 

[PetNcs]

@nrnbow24 not using a questionnaire form is irresponsible plan and simple . No we are not vets with that said one can not have the whole picture from a picture. There is likely to be 30 questions asked anyhow by 100 keepers . It’s responsible to have a questionnaire filled out provided by the group or forum . All 30 questions may not pertain . A good amount will or they would not have a sick Chameleon .

Mucus in the throat - What’s the history of the chameleon, how is it kept , temps , lighting , supplement , how long have you had this chameleon is all ask on a Questionnaire forum . Personally I have witnessed with my own another odd issue that Ultimately lead to mucus .

@CamoChameleonsHuman is not only found In his frustration is A huge resource to chameleon care . It’s not a could have been a resource he is a resource that you have now lost !!.

There is no way tk dictate how a grouo should or should not deal with issues and biw tj somve them. There is no way to consider any questionnaire to be the pannacea and any attempt of any entity including Caf (that I deeply respect) to dictate the field will automatically fail!
I never doubt the reasoning of a lroler anamnesis. It is crucial and imperative!
However, is the me tikend questionaire an ultimate tool providing the insigt and it
Must be used? NO! The answer is NO, as it is NOT ideal and there are alternative approaches which are ansolutely under the discretion of this or other expert taking liberty to advice.

 

[Kristen Wilkins]

There is no way tk dictate how a grouo should or should not deal with issues and biw tj somve them. There is no way to consider any questionnaire to be the pannacea and any attempt of any entity including Caf (that I deeply respect) to dictate the field will automatically fail!
I never doubt the reasoning of a lroler anamnesis. It is crucial and imperative!
However, is the me tikend questionaire an ultimate tool providing the insigt and it
Must be used? NO! The answer is NO, as it is NOT ideal and there are alternative approaches which are ansolutely under the discretion of this or other expert taking liberty to advice.

You will not convince me otherwise it is simply irresponsible . There is no reason for you to reply again To me . Thank you !!.

 

[PetNcs]

No need to really apologize we all know you love these animals. Never apologize for trying to help someone who was unwilling to learn. If the first cave man didn’t show the rest of men fire where would we be today?

I rhink you should apologize ti all for causing unnecesaarh drama offending people and using wrong information. Also you should apologize fir oosting acreenshors ri measages you were not authorized to screenshot. It was tiur rudenneas that caused all the drama, you did it intentionally for unknown eeasons, which J will not aoecullate anout. I diagree strongmy that this ehavior demonstrated deep live to chameleonsand wxpertise, it rather is easily to be interpreted as egoistic self-presentation and intentional causing drama and demiberate use of wrong information and wirding.

 

[CamoChameleonsHuman]

There is no way tk dictate how a grouo should or should not deal with issues and biw tj somve them. There is no way to consider any questionnaire to be the pannacea and any attempt of any entity including Caf (that I deeply respect) to dictate the field will automatically fail!
I never doubt the reasoning of a lroler anamnesis. It is crucial and imperative!
However, is the me tikend questionaire an ultimate tool providing the insigt and it
Must be used? NO! The answer is NO, as it is NOT ideal and there are alternative approaches which are ansolutely under the discretion of this or other expert taking liberty to advice.

In my honest opinion and completely respecting yours Peter the chameleon was sick. The chameleon owner was a new keeper. The questionaire helps me and many others get to see the whole picture without seeing a picture. Although in the notes of the questionaire it states photos are very helpful and useful. The Admin disabled comments in that post because I disagreed with her statement that it was not allowed and not useful. I can prove to you in the past week 30x the questionaire has helped new chameleon keepers on these forums.

 

[PetNcs]

You will not convince me otherwise it is simply irresponsible . There is no reason for you to reply again To me . Thank you !!.

I have the same right to express my opinion as you. So I will take the liberty to answer what I consider relevant.

 

[JoXie411]

I rhink you should apologize ti all for causing unnecesaarh drama offending people and using wrong information. Also you should apologize fir oosting acreenshors ri measages you were not authorized to screenshot. It was tiur rudenneas that caused all the drama, you did it intentionally for unknown eeasons, which J will not aoecullate anout. I diagree strongmy that this ehavior demonstrated deep live to chameleonsand wxpertise, it rather is easily to be interpreted as egoistic self-presentation and intentional causing drama and demiberate use of wrong information and wirding.

Ummm idk why your coming at me like this but you need to chill. i didn’t screenshot anything?

 

[CamoChameleonsHuman]

I rhink you should apologize ti all for causing unnecesaarh drama offending people and using wrong information. Also you should apologize fir oosting acreenshors ri measages you were not authorized to screenshot. It was tiur rudenneas that caused all the drama, you did it intentionally for unknown eeasons, which J will not aoecullate anout. I diagree strongmy that this ehavior demonstrated deep live to chameleonsand wxpertise, it rather is easily to be interpreted as egoistic self-presentation and intentional causing drama and demiberate use of wrong information and wirding.

If you read my comments I have humbley apologized. But her comments were posted to a public format. That's her discretion not mine. I will again apologize to you if you feel I offended you in any way shape or form. But disabling comments is not how you "keep the conversation going"

 

[PetNcs]

In my honest opinion and completely respecting yours Peter the chameleon was sick. The chameleon owner was a new keeper. The questionaire helps me and many others get to see the whole picture without seeing a picture. Although in the notes of the questionaire it states photos are very helpful and useful. The Admin disabled comments in that post because I disagreed with her statement that it was not allowed and not useful. I can prove to you in the past week 30x the questionaire has helped new chameleon keepers on these forums.

Do not twist what happened!
You caused the drama.
Noone discouraged you from using the questiknnaire, on contrary we encouraged yij to dk so.
If yij wanted tk belo, yiu xan belonusing PM or post another lost and tagging the Oap.
Instead you posted an iffensive and rude post on your hate to Fab Groups. this is NOT A BEHAVIOR of a chameleon locer, itnis behavior of a completely different kind.

 

[Decadancin]

So, I am closing this thread down temporarily because I need to research multiple factors. I hope the community can be mature enough not to continue the drama elsewhere.

 

[CamoChameleonsHuman]

Do not twist what happened!
You caused the drama.
Noone discouraged you from using the questiknnaire, on contrary we encouraged yij to dk so.
If yij wanted tk belo, yiu xan belonusing PM or post another lost and tagging the Oap.
Instead you posted an iffensive and rude post on your hate to Fab Groups. this is NOT A BEHAVIOR of a chameleon locer, itnis behavior of a completely different kind.

Peter yes I was discouraged by you and Linda it's in the screenshot black and white. No gray area in this one.

 

[Decadancin]

I am going to re-open this thread, but with one ask from the community. Keep the discussion on track and appropriate. Since the title itself is already one that can lead to disputes, this could be challenging.

Thank you @TaylorLMatthews for being the one to bring the discussion where it needed to be! (Full disclosure, I am FB "friends" with Taylor, but that isn't why I am saying this.) That is what most of my FB experience has been like when cruising through the various chameleon related posts. I don't generally participate too much with the discussions because there is a definite personality to each of the groups. Some will offer this site as a resource for people to use and some never will. The fact is that many of the members there are former active members here. Petr (also full disclosure... I am also FB "friends" with) has a tremendous amount of knowledge and I value that, but that doesn't mean this is the only source I would depend on. It has helped me to do what I have always encouraged members to do and that is to look beyond the first correct answer and always keep learning.

Since this discussion also brings up a hot topic about misting, @PetNcs has probably been the most influential one in recent times to question what we mostly consider to be the "best" way to care for captive chameleons. The Naturalistic Approach is something I have done for years in keeping all types of animals, but when I was thinking about hydrating chameleons I did not consider the way it is in nature. Now I will tell you that I have been using a fogger at night with my panther, but I still mist during the day. It works for me and my situation. I think that long misting sessions can work for many animals to encourage drinking, but is that what they truly need? Are we missing something else that could be even better for them? Keep an open mind.

As for the use of the form to ask about basic husbandry (don't worry, I am not a vet, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night so I should be able to use multi syllabic words...) I find it to be a great source of information and a way to streamline the issues. It isn't the only way, but it works well. Remember though, not everyone uses the site or FB sites the same way and this could be intimidating to some and scare them away from help because they have been attacked by people here or elsewhere. That is the unfortunate side of the internet.

Finally, I am going to open the thread for further replies and I hope the discussion is a good one! (I'm not going to lie, I kinda like seeing Taylor and Petr on here once in a while. I think they both have a lot to offer the community and would add to the discussion!)

-Michael

 

[Lunatuck]

All I’ll say is that it sure seemes like Linda was saying “ We don’t use that form here,” to mean she doesnt want people posting it and didn’t want the OP to respond to it.

I saw an offer to help, and a rejection of that offer by an admin.

 

[CamoChameleonsHuman]

I am going to re-open this thread, but with one ask from the community. Keep the discussion on track and appropriate. Since the title itself is already one that can lead to disputes, this could be challenging.

Thank you @TaylorLMatthews for being the one to bring the discussion where it needed to be! (Full disclosure, I am FB "friends" with Taylor, but that isn't why I am saying this.) That is what most of my FB experience has been like when cruising through the various chameleon related posts. I don't generally participate too much with the discussions because there is a definite personality to each of the groups. Some will offer this site as a resource for people to use and some never will. The fact is that many of the members there are former active members here. Petr (also full disclosure... I am also FB "friends" with) has a tremendous amount of knowledge and I value that, but that doesn't mean this is the only source I would depend on. It has helped me to do what I have always encouraged members to do and that is to look beyond the first correct answer and always keep learning.

Since this discussion also brings up a hot topic about misting, @PetNcs has probably been the most influential one in recent times to question what we mostly consider to be the "best" way to care for captive chameleons. The Naturalistic Approach is something I have done for years in keeping all types of animals, but when I was thinking about hydrating chameleons I did not consider the way it is in nature. Now I will tell you that I have been using a fogger at night with my panther, but I still mist during the day. It works for me and my situation. I think that long misting sessions can work for many animals to encourage drinking, but is that what they truly need? Are we missing something else that could be even better for them? Keep an open mind.

As for the use of the form to ask about basic husbandry (don't worry, I am not a vet, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night so I should be able to use multi syllabic words...) I find it to be a great source of information and a way to streamline the issues. It isn't the only way, but it works well. Remember though, not everyone uses the site or FB sites the same way and this could be intimidating to some and scare them away from help because they have been attacked by people here or elsewhere. That is the unfortunate side of the internet.

Finally, I am going to open the thread for further replies and I hope the discussion is a good one! (I'm not going to lie, I kinda like seeing Taylor and Petr on here once in a while. I think they both have a lot to offer the community and would add to the discussion!)

-Michael

Thank you Michael. Again I apologize if I offended anyone with my post or actions. That was not my intention. My intention was to keep the conversation going and also to try and bridge the gap between our two platforms. I feel I completely missed the mark there. I'd like to personally apologize to @PetNcs for saying he was an Admin or moderator of the group. After speaking with him personally I found this was not the case. I apologize for making that remark. I feel what transpired is clear in black and white for all too see and make their own better judgment on. I personally have nothing else to say or add to this matter. I have been publicly ousted by the FB chameleon community anyways so it is pointless to even add anything. I would also like to publicly apologize to @Decadancin and @Brad as well. If either wishes to close and delete this thread that is perfectly fine with me. Again my sincerest apologies to all. Especially to this forum.

 

[jamest0o0]

I am going to re-open this thread, but with one ask from the community. Keep the discussion on track and appropriate. Since the title itself is already one that can lead to disputes, this could be challenging.

Thank you @TaylorLMatthews for being the one to bring the discussion where it needed to be! (Full disclosure, I am FB "friends" with Taylor, but that isn't why I am saying this.) That is what most of my FB experience has been like when cruising through the various chameleon related posts. I don't generally participate too much with the discussions because there is a definite personality to each of the groups. Some will offer this site as a resource for people to use and some never will. The fact is that many of the members there are former active members here. Petr (also full disclosure... I am also FB "friends" with) has a tremendous amount of knowledge and I value that, but that doesn't mean this is the only source I would depend on. It has helped me to do what I have always encouraged members to do and that is to look beyond the first correct answer and always keep learning.

Since this discussion also brings up a hot topic about misting, @PetNcs has probably been the most influential one in recent times to question what we mostly consider to be the "best" way to care for captive chameleons. The Naturalistic Approach is something I have done for years in keeping all types of animals, but when I was thinking about hydrating chameleons I did not consider the way it is in nature. Now I will tell you that I have been using a fogger at night with my panther, but I still mist during the day. It works for me and my situation. I think that long misting sessions can work for many animals to encourage drinking, but is that what they truly need? Are we missing something else that could be even better for them? Keep an open mind.

As for the use of the form to ask about basic husbandry (don't worry, I am not a vet, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night so I should be able to use multi syllabic words...) I find it to be a great source of information and a way to streamline the issues. It isn't the only way, but it works well. Remember though, not everyone uses the site or FB sites the same way and this could be intimidating to some and scare them away from help because they have been attacked by people here or elsewhere. That is the unfortunate side of the internet.

Finally, I am going to open the thread for further replies and I hope the discussion is a good one! (I'm not going to lie, I kinda like seeing Taylor and Petr on here once in a while. I think they both have a lot to offer the community and would add to the discussion!)

-Michael

Always appreciated the calm and easy going way you've approached things. Glad you opened this back up. I'd like to see for all of us to get along a little better and be able to share info.

On the topic of water, I was never saying that the "naturalistic" method was not good. Everything I mentioned was my opinion. It just seems easier to mist more for somebody new than to worry about fogging. IMO as long as they are hydrated it won't affect the life span. I don't know of anyone that hurt their chameleon through mistings, but maybe I'm wrong. If that's not me keeping an open mind, IDK what is.

 

[JoXie411]

I am going to re-open this thread, but with one ask from the community. Keep the discussion on track and appropriate. Since the title itself is already one that can lead to disputes, this could be challenging.

Thank you @TaylorLMatthews for being the one to bring the discussion where it needed to be! (Full disclosure, I am FB "friends" with Taylor, but that isn't why I am saying this.) That is what most of my FB experience has been like when cruising through the various chameleon related posts. I don't generally participate too much with the discussions because there is a definite personality to each of the groups. Some will offer this site as a resource for people to use and some never will. The fact is that many of the members there are former active members here. Petr (also full disclosure... I am also FB "friends" with) has a tremendous amount of knowledge and I value that, but that doesn't mean this is the only source I would depend on. It has helped me to do what I have always encouraged members to do and that is to look beyond the first correct answer and always keep learning.

Since this discussion also brings up a hot topic about misting, @PetNcs has probably been the most influential one in recent times to question what we mostly consider to be the "best" way to care for captive chameleons. The Naturalistic Approach is something I have done for years in keeping all types of animals, but when I was thinking about hydrating chameleons I did not consider the way it is in nature. Now I will tell you that I have been using a fogger at night with my panther, but I still mist during the day. It works for me and my situation. I think that long misting sessions can work for many animals to encourage drinking, but is that what they truly need? Are we missing something else that could be even better for them? Keep an open mind.

As for the use of the form to ask about basic husbandry (don't worry, I am not a vet, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night so I should be able to use multi syllabic words...) I find it to be a great source of information and a way to streamline the issues. It isn't the only way, but it works well. Remember though, not everyone uses the site or FB sites the same way and this could be intimidating to some and scare them away from help because they have been attacked by people here or elsewhere. That is the unfortunate side of the internet.

Finally, I am going to open the thread for further replies and I hope the discussion is a good one! (I'm not going to lie, I kinda like seeing Taylor and Petr on here once in a while. I think they both have a lot to offer the community and would add to the discussion!)

-Michael

I just want to know why I got yelled at? I don’t appreciate how he came at me for no reason and demanded an apology from me.

 

[CamoChameleonsHuman]

I just want to know why I got yelled at? I don’t appreciate how he came at me for no reason and demanded an apology from me.

Don't quote me on this! But from mine and Peter's conversations yesterday he gets confused with the layout and format of the forums. I feel this is what happened in your case. I could be wrong though.

 

[distortionz]

I've used both platforms for years. Cf is great because if you dig deep here there is a wealth of information that dates back years and years. There also tends to be less drama here. On the downside forums are nearly extinct and at times a pain to navigate. If you want quick information or help Facebook is much smoother and more people on it at all times. Fb groups do tend to be drama and filled with cliques that act like they're your friends and talk behind your back. Or people who think they're gurus and aren't open to discussion on different ways of keeping other than what they believe and parrot back to everyone. That said. I still tend to stay on FB groups more often because the smooth platform and ease of use.