Force feeding veiled..dog food?
- Thread starter Evsher
- Start date
macyb-vancouver
Member
Did your vet say he had experience working with chameleons?
jannb
Chameleon Enthusiast
Dog food is to high in protein for a chameleon. How long has it been since he ate? Any pictures of him? Also pictures of his enclosure please. If you fill out the ask for help form that would be very helpful. If you must force feed use silkworms. If he's in really bad share some Reptiboost.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/how-to-ask-for-help.66/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/how-to-ask-for-help.66/
Evsher
New Member
Chameleon Info:
Cage Info:
- Your Chameleon - Male veiled, unsure of age
- Handling - Every other day
- Feeding - Ate around 6 crickets a day when I first got him. He hasn't been eating the past 3 days.
- Supplements - Repticalcium without D3
- Watering - I spray his foliage 3-4x a day
- Fecal Description - Normal, brown poop with white urate.
- History - I purchased him from Petsmart.
Cage Info:
- Cage Type - Screen 16x16x30
- Lighting - Exo terra 5.0 UVB tube and daylight blue 60w basking. I have these both on from 10am-10pm
- Temperature - I have a temperature gauge in the corner of his cage, opposite of the basking light. This area reads to be 70 degrees. I have a space heater near his cage that is set to turn on when temperatures reach below 70.
- Humidity - The cage is generally around 50-60% humidity. I keep a humidifier next to his cage.
- Plants - A few fake plants and a large branch. I used to keep a live aloe vera plant in there too, but I'm not sure if that could be what's causing the problem so it was removed two days ago.
- Placement - About two feet off the ground against the wall/window. (I keep plastic wrapped around one side and the back so that heat will stay in)
- Location - Michigan
Evsher
New Member
The reason I have to force feed him is because he has been keeping his eyes shut for about a week. I'm pretty sure it was due to the coil uvb bulb I had been using, but now that I've replaced that with a tube I think he's still having trouble opening them because he's dehydrated. He did open one of his eyes while I was handling him just now, but the other one is still shut. It almost looks swollen (but no discharge).
Sorry for the quality, my phone broke so I had to use my webcam.
Inside of his cage:
Top:
Poor little Steve:
Evsher
New Member
The vet stated that they have experience with exotic animals. When I asked him directly he did sort of avoid answering and told me that he deals with bearded dragons and such. So, I have a feeling he may not have had hands-on experience with chameleons before, but he did seem knowledgeable about the subject.
brownie64
Avid Member
It's really not my place to second guess a vet so please don't think that is my intention. However a bearded dragon can handle protein better than a chameleon can. Might want to consider a new vet. just my humble opinion.
Evsher
New Member
Yeah I agree with you. I live in a rural area, so I didn't have many options for a vet that deals with exotics. If Steve gets any worse I'll definitely be willing to drive farther, but he does seem to be improving with one eye. His other eye seems to be getting worse though :/
Evsher
New Member
I read from multiple sources that the coil UVB bulbs have been known to cause eye issues and even blindness. I didn't want to risk it (and I already had a 15" light fixture) so I went with a tube. Apparently, they disperse the light more evenly, so it's less irritating.
You said the basking area is only 70 degrees???? Thanks so not warm enough. It should be in the mid 80'sF. Low temperatures will slow digestion which will slow desire to eat. It makes ght be why he's closing his eyes too.
Your cage is also against the window and you live in a cold climate. The chill from the window can lead to health issues and since the basking area is low during the day that could also make it worse because he can't even get warm enough in the daytime.
Also...what are you using for substrate on the floor of the cage?
Your cage is also against the window and you live in a cold climate. The chill from the window can lead to health issues and since the basking area is low during the day that could also make it worse because he can't even get warm enough in the daytime.
Also...what are you using for substrate on the floor of the cage?
Evsher
New Member
Oops i forgot to edit that section! Since i added the ceramic heater, the basking area is now about 90 and the lower part of the cage is 70.
Sphagnum moss is being used as substrate, it was recommended by the vet to keep help the humidity levels up.
When did you change the basking temperature?
I would still recommend moving he cage away from the window.
Is your chameleon still keeping its eyes shut? Didn't the vet comment on the reason for the closed eyes? If you think it's because of the lights what have you done to correct it?
I would still recommend moving he cage away from the window.
Is your chameleon still keeping its eyes shut? Didn't the vet comment on the reason for the closed eyes? If you think it's because of the lights what have you done to correct it?
Last edited:
Evsher
New Member
I'm making a little drainage system for him tomorrow, I'll make sure to move him away from the window after I finish that.
Evsher
New Member
He said Steve wasn't eating because he couldn't see. I had already assumed that, though.
He rubbed his eyes with a qtip and examined his body condition. I feel like he said Steve was dehydrated since he couldn't see anything else wrong with him. However, he has improved since feeding him with the syringe.
The vet also ran a fecal test for parasites, (which was all negative) but only because I asked them to.
Connorology
Avid Member
So I was recently in a similar situation: my chameleon had an oral infection and was refusing food and dropping weight. The vet had me giving him antibiotic shots and subcutanous fluids, which was definitely the right treatment regimen and did ultimately cure him. However, she also suggested giving him a force feed intended for mammalian carnivores, and made a comment about chameleons dropping their tails. I was mildly annoyed, had my Ron Swanson "I know more then you" moment, and took my drugs and went home. I then made my own liquid diet that was more appropriate for insectivores, and gave that to him along with the meds the vet gave me. In the end the combined insectivore force feed and the drugs got my guy up and running again. I couldn't have done it without the vet, and her tech showed me how to give fluids and shots to a chameleon. But her treatment protocol would have been pretty crummy had I not known that carnivore diet isn't a great option for insectivores.
The point being, your vet may be bad. Or he may be good. But if he's the only exotic option around I wouldn't necessarily drop him because he doesn't have chameleon experience. In hindsight, I think my vet was good, and I don't really mind that she doesn't have much experience with chameleons, because I do. A vet with an encyclopedic knowledge of all reptile species is going to be unvailable to most reptile owners unless you are lucky enough to live near an amazing specialty practice or one of the ~25 teaching hospitals we have in the country. Most vets are going to be working off a basic treatment protocol for exotics and will have a good idea of treatment options (drugs, dosing, etc), but may not know specialty information like housing requirements or species specific nutrition recommendations off hand. IMO the onerous is on us as the keepers to know specialty information and use the vets for their medical expertise, keeping in mind that avian/exotics medicine is like a small optional rotation in vet school, and suggested treatment protocols are not to be followed unquestioningly.
That's my two cents regarding vet care. I read a lot of posts that seem quick to condemn vets for inexperience, or are too quick to follow their instructions despite obvious inexperience. I think if you treat it like a consult and combine your chameleon experience with the vets medical experience, you can get pretty good care even from an inexperienced vet.
Manifesto complete! Let me tell you what I did when I had to force feed:
The point being, your vet may be bad. Or he may be good. But if he's the only exotic option around I wouldn't necessarily drop him because he doesn't have chameleon experience. In hindsight, I think my vet was good, and I don't really mind that she doesn't have much experience with chameleons, because I do. A vet with an encyclopedic knowledge of all reptile species is going to be unvailable to most reptile owners unless you are lucky enough to live near an amazing specialty practice or one of the ~25 teaching hospitals we have in the country. Most vets are going to be working off a basic treatment protocol for exotics and will have a good idea of treatment options (drugs, dosing, etc), but may not know specialty information like housing requirements or species specific nutrition recommendations off hand. IMO the onerous is on us as the keepers to know specialty information and use the vets for their medical expertise, keeping in mind that avian/exotics medicine is like a small optional rotation in vet school, and suggested treatment protocols are not to be followed unquestioningly.
That's my two cents regarding vet care. I read a lot of posts that seem quick to condemn vets for inexperience, or are too quick to follow their instructions despite obvious inexperience. I think if you treat it like a consult and combine your chameleon experience with the vets medical experience, you can get pretty good care even from an inexperienced vet.
Manifesto complete! Let me tell you what I did when I had to force feed:
