Freak Accident!!!!!!!! Need Help!!

[kinyonga]

Chris...are you saying that once the tongue is detached there is a space around the hyoid spike/entoglossal process that opens into the abdominal cavity? Do you have any photos or sketches that show this?

 

[laurie]

hang in there Kayla, you and your cham will make it throughout this. She would not have had a chance with out you. You have been great. I hope for all the best for both of you.

 

[Syn]

I've been reading this thread hoping everything goes well with her after the fact, very glad she has not gone downhill. Hopefully she will get better (as better as better can be in this situation) soon.

 

[KShook]

Thank You Laurie & Syn! Key is Positive Thinking & to be patient.. It works for me at least..and not to freak out! "Which is sometimes hard to do"

 

[Daguerreotype13]

My heart really goes out for you and your little girl, must be tuff having to see her like that . . . Best of luck to you both! I'm keeping my fingers crossed

 

[kongchi]

And I dont want to hear my setup needs to be better, fuller or whatever...I've had this setup for quite a few chams and never had any issues...

Ahh, sorry, If I came off the wrong way, it wasn't to critique your set up, trust me lol. When I first read this story, it brought up a thought of mine that I had one day while watching Sebastian eat. I've always wondered if a tongue shot could be a little short of the target resulting in the tongue dropping and wrapping itself around a hard twig or a vine. Many scenarios come into play after this, including that your cham panicked and walked toward her tongue and dropping off what she was perched on.

But then again half way through writing this reply, I realized "This is already done, and I'm probably bringing up bad memories" I just wanted you to know, it was not to critique your enclosure. It just bothered me how this just happened mysteriously and I wouldn't like it to happen to anyone at all. I sat here looking at the picture and mapped out some tongue shots in my head that might have lead to my theory.

 

[Chris Anderson]

Chris...are you saying that once the tongue is detached there is a space around the hyoid spike/entoglossal process that opens into the abdominal cavity? Do you have any photos or sketches that show this?

Unfortunately I don't have any good photos to show this but thats essentially what I'm saying (although its not the abdominal cavity, its just within the body but outside of the sternum and ribcage). The hyobranchial apparatus itself is located within the body and the entoglossal process extends into the mouth cavity. The entoglossus is enclosed or covered by the tongue, however, so it is technically separated from the mouth cavity by the tongue, even though it extends into the mouth cavity.

If you are at all familiar with the sterile chambers that have built in gloves so that someone outside can work inside the chamber without exposing themselves to whatever is inside, its somewhat similar. The gloves are basically like the tissue sheath around the tongue and your arms inside the gloves are like the entoglossal process. Now, if someone was to cut the hand off the glove, not only is your hand now directly inside the chamber, but any fumes, etc., that were contained inside the chamber can now escape through the hole in the glove that your arm is going through.

Hopefully that makes sense.

Chris

 

[chamelisa]

Chris...are you saying that once the tongue is detached there is a space around the hyoid spike/entoglossal process that opens into the abdominal cavity? Do you have any photos or sketches that show this?

That's what I was wondering and why I posted about having a vet suture the area closed. I figured that Chris would have a pretty good idea. That bone is normally enclosed in the tongue tissue.

 

[chamelisa]

Chris, thanks for the explanation.

 

[KShook]

Your Opinion

Hi Chris,

So in your own Opinion, if you were in my situation, would you have the Hyoid Bone Removed and Closed up?? Or would you leave it as is..!? And yes everything you said made sense Thanks again for that detailed information!

~Kayla

Unfortunately I don't have any good photos to show this but thats essentially what I'm saying (although its not the abdominal cavity, its just within the body but outside of the sternum and ribcage). The hyobranchial apparatus itself is located within the body and the entoglossal process extends into the mouth cavity. The entoglossus is enclosed or covered by the tongue, however, so it is technically separated from the mouth cavity by the tongue, even though it extends into the mouth cavity.

If you are at all familiar with the sterile chambers that have built in gloves so that someone outside can work inside the chamber without exposing themselves to whatever is inside, its somewhat similar. The gloves are basically like the tissue sheath around the tongue and your arms inside the gloves are like the entoglossal process. Now, if someone was to cut the hand off the glove, not only is your hand now directly inside the chamber, but any fumes, etc., that were contained inside the chamber can now escape through the hole in the glove that your arm is going through.

Hopefully that makes sense.

Chris

 

[KShook]

Day 3 (AM) Update

I woke up this morning, first thing I did was check on my girl. Come to see that she was waiting for me to turn her lights on As soon as I did, she was up and roaming around her cage! Yayy..She then went and looked at the feeders in the bowl..but has not yet attempted to eat any of them...Today she will be getting her second dose of Oral Baytril & Sub-Q Fluids and I'm going to work with her on eating at least 1 feeder today, possibly more if she chooses. Will give another update this evening.

 

[KShook]

Ha it's okay..I just know how some people are... yeah I've gone back and fourth in my mind to..I just gave up though, cause whats done is done..and now I have to focus on taking care of her, and giving her anything and everything I can to help her recover through this. My thoughts now are...This would be so amazing if she actually made it through this..and continues to do well in the future This is my "Positive Thinking" theory..seems to work for me..lol I'm a dork dont mind me...

Ahh, sorry, If I came off the wrong way, it wasn't to critique your set up, trust me lol. When I first read this story, it brought up a thought of mine that I had one day while watching Sebastian eat. I've always wondered if a tongue shot could be a little short of the target resulting in the tongue dropping and wrapping itself around a hard twig or a vine. Many scenarios come into play after this, including that your cham panicked and walked toward her tongue and dropping off what she was perched on.

But then again half way through writing this reply, I realized "This is already done, and I'm probably bringing up bad memories" I just wanted you to know, it was not to critique your enclosure. It just bothered me how this just happened mysteriously and I wouldn't like it to happen to anyone at all. I sat here looking at the picture and mapped out some tongue shots in my head that might have lead to my theory.

 

[Chris Anderson]

Hi Chris,

So in your own Opinion, if you were in my situation, would you have the Hyoid Bone Removed and Closed up?? Or would you leave it as is..!? And yes everything you said made sense Thanks again for that detailed information!

~Kayla

If it were me, I'd try to have the tissue around the entoglossal process closed up. The issue is how to do it. If there is enough tissue remaining to attempt to extend it over the entoglossal process and suture it without limiting the range of motion of the entoglossal process (vital movements for food processing, drinking, etc.), that would be ideal. If not, I would talk to my vet about ways to seal the tissue around the base of the entoglossal process. If this wasn't an option, I would probably elect to leave it as is and hope scar tissue forms and closes off any access to internal tissue areas. I think removing the entoglossal process would be detrimental to her survival and would require you to feed her a liquid diet for the rest of her life.

Chris

 

[KShook]

Early (PM) Update

So, I've been watching her from a distance all day today..She's been pretty active roaming around and such. I have a cup of feeders in there with her, she's looked at them quite a few time's but has not yet attempted to eat one...I wish she would to put me at ease a little... BUT, I dont want to force/rush her...My Vet/Boss told me today that she wants her eat something...Later on tonight I will work with her on feeding again...I gave her some fluids to make her feel better, and tonight I will give her, her Antibiotics...But so far so good. If anyone has any suggestions on eating techniques let me know..I would rather not force feed her...Anyways let me know! Here's a couple pics from her today..How does she look??

 

[Warrix642]

Ha it's okay..I just know how some people are... yeah I've gone back and fourth in my mind to..I just gave up though, cause whats done is done..and now I have to focus on taking care of her, and giving her anything and everything I can to help her recover through this. My thoughts now are...This would be so amazing if she actually made it through this..and continues to do well in the future This is my "Positive Thinking" theory..seems to work for me..lol I'm a dork dont mind me...

I hope I didn't offend you, I was only trying to help Sorry if I came off harsh. My cage is really close to yours just with a live plant. I like the rope in your cage I might use that.

I hope your girl lives a long healthy life, I have heard of a few chams living long after all that. I'm sure with your help and the meds she will be just fine!

 

[jastate09]

Very unfortunate accident. I hope your female will recover. I've heard of chams living long lives without a tongue as long as you can get her to eat. Tomorrow try some small soft body feeders.

 

[KShook]

Yeah I'm hoping for the best!

Very unfortunate accident. I hope your female will recover. I've heard of chams living long lives without a tongue as long as you can get her to eat. Tomorrow try some small soft body feeders.

 

[kinyonga]

Its only been a couple of days...so I wouldn't worry for another day or two. You can try to hold an insect in front of her and when she sees it touch it on her lips. (I would squish the insect's head so it can't bite her.) Make sure you put it between her teeth if she takes it so she will have to chew it.

Good luck!


Chris...thanks for the explanation. I've never cut a chameleon body apart in such a way that I could see that area of the body. Hopefully the tissue that remains will close in the space if it wasn't already.

 

[KShook]

Chris: Thanks For your response It's greatly appreciated!

Okay I'll work on feeding her! I'll let you know once she does it on her own!

Its only been a couple of days...so I wouldn't worry for another day or two. You can try to hold an insect in front of her and when she sees it touch it on her lips. (I would squish the insect's head so it can't bite her.) Make sure you put it between her teeth if she takes it so she will have to chew it.

Good luck!


Chris...thanks for the explanation. I've never cut a chameleon body apart in such a way that I could see that area of the body. Hopefully the tissue that remains will close in the space if it wasn't already.

 

[KShook]

Late Night Update..

OKay...So I just got back home from a Pet Sitting Job...and thought I would try again to feed her..She of course did not show any intrest in eating any of the feeders I had on her own..."Crix,Supers, Dubia, & Lob. Roaches" Wish I had something softer..I'm going to check tomorrow at a local store...Anyways..I really didnt want to force feed her... But, I opened her mouth and gave her a smaller crix..I thought she would freak out..But she ate it as if she would before I was glad...i tried another but she just didnt want to open her mouth..so I didnt want to push her...But of course I had to give her, her meds which she didnt like...So thats it for tonight...Ohh..and I was able to see what was left of her "Tounge/Bone" the tip of it was White, followed by red which is the blood...The first day it was all Red and bloody...So it is getting better, I'm sure the Oral Antibiotics are helping it to heal up...Okay thats it for tonight!